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SF-LIT  March 1995

SF-LIT March 1995

Subject:

From:

Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 2 Mar 1995 08:10:11 -0500 (EST)

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (40911 lines)

This is the Library of Congress's monthly What IF meeting, open to anyone 
who wishes to attend.  Please email me if you need more information.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, SF-LIT Moderator and Co-owner
[log in to unmask]


===================================================================== 
 
 
                 The LCPA What IF . . . Science Fiction Forum 
                                   Presents 
 
                            "ILLUSION : A READING" 
                                      By 
                                Fantasy author 
                                 Paula Volsky 
           
 
 
                         Tuesday, March 7th 12:10 PM 
                      Law Library Conference Room, LM240 
                      Madison Bldg, Library of Congress 
 
 
                    Please feel free to bring your lunch.  
==================================================================== 


From cstu  Fri Mar  3 08:41:22 1995
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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:41:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Dimenovel symopium dist. list" <@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU:ALF-L@YORKVM1>,
        [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask], @CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU:KIDLIT-L@BINGUM,
        [log in to unmask], @CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU:LIBRARY@INDYCMS,
        [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
        [log in to unmask]
Subject: Dimenovel symopium annoucement
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

     "Pioneers, Passionate Ladies, and Private Eyes: The Library of
Congress Symposium on Dime Novels, Series Books, and Paperbacks"
will be held Friday, June 9, and Saturday, June 10, 1995, at the
James Madison Building in Washington, D.C.  Highlights of the
symposium will include two plenary sessions: Friday's at which
author Madeleine B. Stern will speak on "Dime Novels by the
`Children's Friend' (Louisa May Alcott)," and Saturday's at which
Professor Janice A. Radway of Duke University, author of _Reading
the Romance_, will talk on "Clearing a Space for Middlebrow
Culture: The Struggle Over the Book, 1880-1920."
     The symposium, sponsored jointly by the Rare Book and Special
Collections Division, headed by Dr. Larry Sullivan, and the Center
for the Book, directed by Dr. John Y. Cole, is the first symposium
ever held by these two divisions of the Library of Congress on
popular fiction.  The symposium will also feature an exhibit
highlighting collections of dime novels, series books, and
paperbacks housed in the Rare Book and Special Collections
Division.  Sessions will run from 8:30 a.m.-5:00 p.m.
     The rest of this announcement is divided into three parts:
Part I: Information about the panelists and their titles; Part II:
Logistics (Hotels & Subway, Travel); and Part III: Information
about registration. 

     Part I: Information on Panelists
     In addition to authors Stern and Radway, twenty other speakers
have accepted invitions to present papers, including historian Dr.
Leona Rostenberg, who will speak briefly on "The Discovery of
Louisa May Alcott's Pseudonym" at the start of Stern's plenary
session. 
     Grouped by genres, the other presenters are:
     Dime Novel History: Edward T. LeBlanc, Editor Emeritus, _Dime
Novel Round-Up_, "A Thumnail History of Dime Novels"; Kathleen
Chamberlain, Associate Professor of English, Emory and Henry
College, "Dime Novel Counterfeiting: The Lizzie Borden Case";
Deidre A. Johnson, Assistant Professor of English/Children's
Literature, West Chester University, "Parallel Pugilists? A Study
of John L. Jr. and Gentleman Jack Dime Novels in Street and Smith's
_New York Five Cent Library_."
     War and Technology in Popular Fiction: David K. Vaughan,
Associate Professor of Technical Communication, Air Forces
Institute of Technology, "The Possibilities of Flight: Shaping
Reader Response in American Aviation Series Books, 1909-1959";
Elizabeth A. Frank, Curator of Large Mammals, Milwaukee County Zoo,
"Advocating War Preparedness: H. Irving Hancock's _Conquest of the
United States Series_"; M. Paul Holsinger, Professor of History,
Illinois State University, "From Dave Dawson to Mac Wingate and
Beyond: The Glamorization of World War II in Juvenile Series and
Modern Paperbacks."    
     Popular Culture Collections: Clark Evans, Senior Reference
Librarian, Rare Book Reading Room, "Popular Culture Collections at
the Library of Congress"; Alison Scott, Head Librarian, Popular
Culture Library, Bowling Green State University, "They Came From
the Newsstand: Pulp Magazines and Vintage Paperbacks in the Popular
Culture Library"; Martha Hansen and Mark Weimer, both of Special
Collections, Syracuse University, "Popular Culture Collections in
Research Libraries: The Current State of Preservation and Access."
     Publishing Practices: Lydia C. Schurman, Professor of English
Emerita, Northern Virginia Community College, "The Librarian of
Congress and the American Library Association in the Battle Over
Cheap Novels in the Mail"; E.M. Sanchez-Saavedra, Writer/Historian,
"The Anglo-American Pulp Wars"; Karen Nelson Hoyle, Professor and
Curator, Children's Literature Research Collection, University of
Minnesota, "New Numbers and Evolving Editions: Keeping Up With
Series Books."
     Reader Reception and Response to Popular Fiction: Angela
Farkas, Teaching Fellow, Department of English, University of
Pittsburgh, "`A Sort of Literary Heresy': The Production and
Reception of Mrs. Alex McVeigh Miller's `The Bride of the Tomb'";
Alan Pickrell, Professor of English, Emory and Henry College, "From
Immorality to Immortality: Character Transplant from Victorian
Romances to the Oz Series"; Nancy Tillman Romalov, Visiting
Assistant Professor, University of Montana, "Unearthing the
Historical Reader, Or, Reading Girls' Reading."
     Transitions Across Genres: John T. Dizer, Professor and Dean
Emeritus, Mohawk Valley Community College, "Authors Who Wrote Dime
Novels and Series Books, 1890-1914"; Jean Carwile Masteller,
Professor of English, Whitman College, "From Laura Jean Libbey to
Harlequin Romances"; J. Randolph Cox, Professor and Reference and
Government Documents Librarian, St. Olaf College, and Editor, _Dime
Novel Round-Up_, " Paperback Detective: The Evolution of the Nick
Carter Series from Dime Novel to Modern Paperback, 1886-1990."
                    
     Part II: Logistics
     Hotel: Although there are numerous suitable hotel
accommodations in Washington, D.C., and the Maryland and Virginia
suburbs--June is tourist season here, so it is advisable to make
reservations as soon as possible.  Average rates in the D.C. area
run around $100 per night or more.  
     Subway: The Library of Congress can be reached locally via the
Orange and Blue Lines of the Washington Metro System, which runs
into nearby Md. and Va.  The nearest station is Capitol South. 
     AirFare: Special round trip airfare has been arranged with US
Air for all "Dime Novel" attendees.  Travel is valid on US Air, US
Air Express, and US Air Shuttle, June 7-12, 1995.  The fare will
offer a 5% discount off First Class tickets and any published US
Air promotional round trip fare.  A 10% discount off unrestricted
coach fares will apply with 7 day advance reservations and
ticketing required.  These discounts are not combinable with other
discounts or promotions.  To obtain this discount, call US Air's
Meeting and Convention Reservation office at (800) 334-8644 from 8
a.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern Time.  Refer to Gold File Number 49450025.
     Amtrak: From June 7-12, 1995, Amtrak will offer a 10% discount
off any available Amtrak train to/from Washington, D.C.  This
discount is good nationwide but is not valid on Auto Train or
Metroliner Service.  For reservations contact Amtrak at 1-800-USA-
RAIL and ask for fare order number X-74F-934.  
     
     Part III: Registration
     Although there is no registration fee, the Library of Congress
does need to know how many people are planning to attend the
symposium.  Please send the registration form on the next page to
Clark Evans at the Library of Congress by May 15, 1995.  


                        REGISTRATION FORM

         "Pioneers, Passionate Ladies, and Private Eyes:
        The Library of Congress Symposium on Dime Novels,
                  Series Books, and Paperbacks"
           Friday, June 9, and Saturday, June 10, 1995
         James Madison Building, the Library of Congress
                       8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.

     Registration: Although there is no registration fee, the
Library of Congress does need to know how many people are planning
to attend the symposium.  Please send the following information to
Clark Evans, Senior Reference Librarian, Rare Book and Special
Collections Division, Library of Congress, in any one of the
following ways by May 15, 1995.  If you know others who might be
interested, please xerox this form for them.  

     1.  e-mail:  [log in to unmask]

     2.  Phone:   (202) 707-2017

     3.  Fax:     (202) 707-4142

     Last Name______________________First Name____________M.I.____

     Title________________________________________________________

     Institution__________________________________________________

     Mailing  Address_____________________________________________

        City_____________________________State___________Zip______

     Day Phone(    )______________________________________________

       

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar  3 03:52:33 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA113740707; Fri, 3 Mar 1995 03:51:47 -0500
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 03:51:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Counter-censorship???
To: SF-LIT <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

I a paper that I am preparing for a session on censorship held at the Learned
Societies Conference I will study the discursive reaction of the SF
lovers (_"REAL"_ SF critiques and fandom) to the dishonest reception from
the "mainstream press" sometimes that gets SF. This reaction, that I call
counter-censorship (relatively speaking!), in its stronger
appearances finds expression in glorifying SF readings and readership
and in devaluating SF efforts from mainstream writers and readers. Other
ripostes might be to prove theorically that SF is EVERYTHING (which is
not untrue, but... ;-) ) or to retrench ourselves in closed communities.
(If you think its gross, you must be right, my research is only beginning)

It'd love to get your feedback/suggestions/references/reservations on 
these topics. Any contribution will be helpfull.

Thanks in advance
Sylvie

	Sylvie Berard
	[log in to unmask]
	Universite du Quebec a Montreal
        .................................................................
                "But the fact is, I really _really_ hate housework, even
                 when someone else is doing it."
                                                        Pat Cadigan

From cstu  Mon Mar  6 10:47:03 1995
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 10:47:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Silence on the list
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This message was sent to SF-LIT on Sat., and due to computer problems 
(mainframe, not mine), it was approved but never forwarded.  I am sending 
it out late, which much renting of cloth and ash throwing.  Julie, I hope 
you are not offended.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  2 20:13:40 1995
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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 17:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: silence on the list

Maybe it's coincidence, but ever since I had my address changed I've only
gotten one e-mail from the list.  And that was Colleen's "What if" message.
Are we all being purposely quiet, is it a break for some, the weather, what?

I'd like to open a topic or two up.  Perhaps that will get some balls
rolling.

I approach SF from two very divergent areas.  For my job (which I need to be
at seemingly most of my waking time) I am responsible for cataloging approx.
half of the SF & F (books) that comes in. Because we happen to be in a budget
crunch (who isn't?) cataloging the sf stuff has become a lower priority, in
favor of getting the new copy cat approval-type materials out first.  When I
do get to catalog SF, we treat it as if it were a special collection.  In
point-of-fact, it is housed in our spec. col. area.  We therefore note
printing dates, and illustrators of covers and other nit-picky stuff that
would not normally be provided in regular copy cataloging.  How do others of
you who catalog out there handle your SF?  How do you go about verifing
illustrators (if you do that) when there is no clear signature?  What
problems do you encounter?  Trying to keep series together (or not make a
series, even when it's so tempting) has been a particular pain for me.

This cataloging is only part of my interest.  I do, of course, enjoy reading
the genre.  But from what has been said in the past on this list, I wonder
if we need to define some parameters.  As I stated in my intro., I enjoy
SF & F, but go so far as to include such commercial entities as Star Trek,
and I have been a comics reader for quite a while.  I don't know where
others stand on such issues. I, for one, enjoy seeing the different type of
stories; a "child-like" 60's issue of a superhero comic and their idea of
"grit" and the ever more "dark and gritty" comic of the 80's.  For me the
story is paramount.  Artwork defines comicdom, but it will always be the
story that keeps me interested.  And isn't that what SF lit is?

Julie
[log in to unmask]
Julia D. Ree
University of California, Riverside


From cstu  Mon Mar  6 10:58:34 1995
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Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 10:58:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Archives are available
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

After much heartburn on my part, I have finally conquered archiving the 
SF-LIT files (it seems the computer does not recognize me as a SF-LIT 
owner, bad computer!).  If you wish to see the index of files, send the 
following command to [log in to unmask]
	INDEX SF-LIT
(captials are optional, I did this so you could easily tell an "L")

Okay, so there is only one file there right now (sf-lit.log9502), but 
that will change in a month.  Once you know which file you want, send 
another message to [log in to unmask]
	GET SF-LIT SF-LIT.LOG9502
Your file will show up anywhere from in a few minutes to a few hours 
(occasionally LISTPROC will take a day, so please be patient).  This is a 
large file, so be sure you have the mail room.  

If you have any questions or problems with our archives, please contact me.

Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]




From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar  7 14:35:08 1995
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Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 14:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Any "Amazons" stories?
To: SF-LIT <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi,

Recently, I found a short story in an anthology of old  _Wonder Stories_.

This story, published in 1931, is "The conquest of Gola" by Leslie F. Stone.
It's about the planet Gola where females get all the power (social,
political, sexual, etc.) - you guess it, the dominated class is male.
When conqueror come from earth they don't succeed because they
misjudge this society. They try to make friend with the "male slaves" but
the Golians finally exterminate them.

Reading this story, I was wondering if there were many stories like this
(I mean, female power misjudge by male conquerors). I already know Jayge
Carr's _Leviathan's Deep_ which is quite similar, and maybe I could think of
2-3 other titles, but that's all. However, I think it might be a
recurrent pattern, no?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Sylvie

        Sylvie Berard
        Universite du Quebec a Montreal
        [log in to unmask]
        .............................................................
                "As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
                                                S. Haden Elgin


From cstu  Wed Mar  8 07:15:40 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:15:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Cataloging SF/F
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Julie,
	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do 
not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor 
do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do 
you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings 
that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian 
literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature" 
and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is 
the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think 
of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject 
thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
Colleen

_________________________________________________________________________
Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!       
__________________________________________________________________________



From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 09:11:13 1995
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	id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 8 Mar 95 08:09 CST
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:57:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Karen Warton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: female-dominated societies
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Sylvie wrote:

> Reading this story, I was wondering if there were many stories like this
> (I mean, female power misjudge by male conquerors). I already know Jayge
> Carr's _Leviathan's Deep_ which is quite similar, and maybe I could think of
> 2-3 other titles, but that's all. However, I think it might be a
> recurrent pattern, no?

I have read (more than once) an excellent story called "Herland," by
Charlotte Perkins Gilman.  It can be hard to find, but since her other
major work, "The Yellow Wallpaper," was dramatized on public TV it has
become easier.  It was written in the style of "hearty male adventurer
buddies" books and tells the story of three such explorers wandering up
into a hidden valley where there are only women.  These women have created
a highly rational and caring society, reproducing by parthenogenesis, and
neither side knows what to make of the other.

It is considered more of a feminist utopian novel than a SF/fantasy, but a
lot of other utopian and anti-utopian works are considered to fall within
this genre.  The most interesting thing is the way Gilman--writing before
women could even vote--creates a logical and nurturing society, and how
she portrays the 3 men's three differing reactions.  (At first they
picture a sort of mega-harem where they can play at will, but they had not
counted on the inner strength and wisdom of women who have never had to
restrain themselves for mens' sake--their lack of coquettishness really
bothers our intrepid adventurers.)

I have seen it printed with other of her works, and/or with biographical
and critical essays.  She wrote a sequel, "With Her in Ourland," but like
most sequels, it doesn't equal the simple power of the original.  It's a
fairly short book, fast reading, and very interesting, if only as an artifact.

Regards,

Karen Warton
DeGolyer Library
Southern Methodist University, Dallas

"Being an American means you are from somewhere else."
                                                       --Aaron Wolfe Kuperman



From eaj  Wed Mar  8 09:28:50 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:28:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Star Trek and American Culture (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Please excuse the cross-posting if some of you have seen this before.  
But as I mentioned the academic end of Star Trek in one of my messages 
...  EAJ


	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 1995 16:59:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Star Trek and American Culture

----------------------------------------
           CAMBRIDGE CENTER FOR ADULT EDUCATION presents
            a seven week course beginning March 27, 1995

                     STAR TREK AND AMERICAN CULTURE

Star Trek's popularity from 1966  until the present has been credited to
many things, including its optimistic view of the future.  However, some 
claim that Star Trek isn't progressive science fiction, but that it 
affirms traditional, mainstream values.

This course will be a lively review of the relationships between Star
Trek and American culture.  The course topics will review all four 
television series, and many characters you love and loathe.  The topics 
include: War & Cold War; Foreign Policy; Mythology & Heroes; Women & Sex 
Roles; Racial In/Equality & "Species-ism"; Fear of Technology; Morality & 
Decision Making; Communication & Persuasion; and Television as Myth Maker.  
The class will include handouts, video excerpts, and open discussion. 
New and veteran fans are encouraged to register.

Don't miss this opportunity to explore favorite Star Trek themes and
topics!  It is also a chance to meet other fans.  Students' comments from 
the Fall, 1994 class:

     "Excellent.  Good analysis between TNG and DS9."

     "It was a lot of fun."

     "I really enjoyed the class... very informative."

The class meets weekly for seven 2 hour sessions, beginning March 27th
at 5:45 PM.  Class size is limited to 16 students.  The cost is $92.  When 
registering, ask for course code TREK.   For more information:

By mail:       Cambridge Center for Adult Education (CCAE)
               P. O. Box 9113
               Cambridge, MA 02238 - 9113

By phone:      (617) 547 - 6789

Walk in:       The CCAE's office is at 42 Brattle Street in 
               Harvard Square.

By FAX:        Visa and MasterCard are accepted.  The FAX number
               is: (617) 497 - 7532.

Internet:      E-mail:   [log in to unmask]
               WWW: http://www.ccae.org/ccae

The instructor, George Jenkins, is an avid fan and a member of the USS
Ronald E. McNair, affiliated with Starfleet the International Fan 
Association.  He is also a professional business researcher at a
local university, and a published author.  He has written and pitched
several Deep Space Nine scripts to Paramount Studios.

************************************
* George Jenkins, Jr.              *
* Business Information Analyst     *
* Harvard Business School          *
* E-mail: [log in to unmask] *
************************************








From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 10:26:54 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 10:26:03 EST
From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Female societies


I recently read a new novella by Ursula LeGuin.  The title unfortunately escapes me,
but I'll try to find the magazine at home.  It describes a society where, because of
some weird genetic factors, male children are rare compared to female children.  The
men are segregated in compunds where they spend all their time engaging in sports and
ritual combat.  The women don't enter the compunds except when they want to get pregnant.
That's what the men are, basically -- breeding stock.  As the novella progresses, the
society encounters other cultures and slowly begins to change, until at the end the
men are beginning to approach something resembling equality.  The amusing thing is,
the first explorers to come to this world see the men fooling around and the women
doing all the work, and decide that the men are the rulers and the women are their
slaves!  

LeGuin is a master at this sort of thing, and this was an excellent story.  I hope
I can track down the title.

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 10:34:57 1995
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From: "Tina A. LaMarch" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:35:00 CST
Subject:       Amazon stories
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22

One title you may want to try is _Daughters of a Coral Dawn_ by 
Katherine DeForrest.  It starts out with a group of women who leave 
Earth to build their own world.  Eventually, a ship arrives from 
Earth and we get to see what happens when these now very different 
cultures meet.  I hope this helps.
                                             Tina LaMarch

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:12:51 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
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This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
rather than a male.  What reminded me of this (re your question) was the 
struggle the Earthling exhibited when he encountered the sexuality of the 
female side of the planet's native.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
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From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:21:11 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Any "Amazons" stories?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:06:36 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Sylvie, Tiptree's "Houston, Houston, Do you Read" is a really famous
story about male visitors getting it wrong.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:37:10 1995
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From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF/Fantasy (fwd)
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Hi folks, The following request was forwarded to me.  I'm passing it on 
in hopes that someone has information for them.

Cheers,   Fran


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 14:41:44 -0800 (PST)
From: thomas quigley <[log in to unmask]>
To: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SF/Fantasy (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 09:30:23 -0800
From: Ruth Ellen Seid <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list GAY-LIBN
     <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SF/Fantasy

Hey folks.  I have a question for you Science Fiction/Fantasy fans out
there. I need the names of gay and lesbian sf/f authors. Any info you
have on them would be good, too, including if you know if they are good
speakers. We're considering a program on gay and lesbian genre literature
for the California Library Assn. conference.

Please email me the answer. If anyone wants, I will compile a list and
post it.

Thanks.

Ruth Ellen


--
Ruth Ellen Seid
[log in to unmask]


From eaj  Wed Mar  8 11:47:52 1995
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From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Women and Reverse Censorship?
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Sylvie recently asked a question related to women run worlds in SF.  
While not all of the titles that follow address the issue of encouters 
with male dominant worlds, the simple fact that they were written by 
real women in real male dominated world makes them relevant I think.  The 
classic in the field is probably Joanna Russ' THE FEMALE MAN which woman 
a Nebula if I recall properly.  Then you might want to check out Suzy 
McKee Charnas' three related books:  MOTHERLINES, WALK TO THE END OF THE 
WORLD, and the recently published THE FURIES.  Another excellent recent 
book is Nicola Griffith's AMMONITE.  This last book won the James 
Tiptree, Jr. Award in 1994--which is a new award that you may want to keep 
track of as it will be given annualy to the best fiction that explores gender 
issues.  Anyways, those four books would be my in first cut.

A few days ago, I think it was Sylvie who also asked about reverse 
censorship in SF--ie does SF exclude SF written by mainstream writers.  My
answer is somewhere between yes and no.  We recently had to tackle this issue
at the Library of Congress in writing our selections policy statement for 
science fiction.  Basically, we ended up excluding SF written by 
mainstream writers for the simple reason that it is treated by the 
mainstream as mainstream experimentations.  In other words, the Library 
would acquire and treat Margaret Atwood's A HANDMAID'S TALE or the 
lastest SF of Doris Lessing with the level of respect that it would 
accord to mainstream fiction.  The problem we were facing here at the 
Library of Congress is that material identified as SF was getting 
inferior or lesser treatment--or none at all.  So our collections policy 
statement focused on SF written by SF writers and essentially ignored SF 
written by mainstream writers.

But the whole question of SF by the mainstream seems to be very 
confused--especially in terms of where you draw your borders.  After all you 
have Kurt Vonnegut (who I would claim writes SF) claiming that he does 
NOT write SF.  And then you have the amazing Ursula K. LeGuin who writes 
SF but has received respect from the mainstream--including the National 
Book Award.  But most SF written by the mainstream seems to be limited to 
the occasional work:  Orwell's 1984, Huxley's BRAVE NEW WORLD, Zamiatin's 
WE, and other excellent books as well as drek like Theroux' O-ZONE.  But 
the basic trend seems to be that it is OK with mainstream writers to 
experiment with SF but it it almost impossible for SF to break into the 
mainstream in spite of hundreds of excellent works (Thomas Disch's CAMP 
CONCENTRATION, James Tiptree's AND BRIGHTNESS FALLS FROM THE AIR, etc. 
etc.).  Some of the responsibility for the creation of these two classes 
of literature (the upper realm of mainstream and the lower realm of SF) 
lies with the publisher and their decision on how they are going to 
market at book.  At the Library of Congress we decided to let the 
publisher--more or less--make the decision for us by deciding to go after 
material intentionally marketed as SF--lower sphere.  But some of the 
responsibility for making SF a "lower sphere" also rests with SF 
readers.  Some of the most successful books are the endless series of 
books related to media SF or the endless series of certain authors.  Go 
into any book store and compare the selection of say Piers Anthony and 
Kate Wilhelm.  You will find shelves of Anthony and although Kate Wilhelm 
is a much more significant writer you are unlikely to find a single book 
by her.  So there may be an "SF ghetto" and those who live in the ghetto 
may long for the life or respect of the big time and the mainstream (and 
have contempt each time one of the mainstream goes slumming in the world 
of SF--thereby creating a kind of reverse censorship).  But it seems to 
me that SF created its own ghetto and most people in it seem perfectly 
content living there.  Of course, the other way to look at it is that 
there is no ghetto (except in the mind of some) and SF is just a 
subculture among many in our culture and everything is fine the way it 
is.  But you did ask about reverse censorship ...

Anyways ... EAJ



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From shal  Wed Mar  8 11:48:27 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:48:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Any "Amazons" stories?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Camille wrote:

> Sylvie, Tiptree's "Houston, Houston, Do you Read" is a really famous
> story about male visitors getting it wrong.
> 
> Camille
> 

Camille, You spoiled the ending!   


Anyway, yes, read that one.  Some other "amazon" or women's society stories:

_The Adventures of Alex_ by Joanna Russ (real ancient Amazon straight out 
of Herodotus brought forward in time by people of the future doing research)

_The Gate to Women's Country_ by Sheri S. Tepper (a little too strident 
for my taste, but definietly a good example of the genre)



Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a wonderful story that is the opposite -- a 
planet colonized entirly by men, who form a closed society. One poor 
fellow has to leave the planet and the first women he encounters is a 
mercenary.  Right, so I can't remember the name of it. I'll see if I can 
find out.


Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From shal  Wed Mar  8 11:51:56 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
> would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
> rather than a male. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 

I attended a lecture by LeGuin some time ago where she was asked this. 
Her answer, as I recall, was that a woman protagonist would have understood 
the culture she encountered too quickly and would have happily set up 
housekeeping. End of story.  

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask] 
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:56:26 1995
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Date:         Wed, 08 Mar 95 11:36:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      RE: Amazon stories
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:15:22 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Bob--I had to laugh when I  read your thought experiment proposition
about LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS.  I've always thought that if the first
contact had been a woman, there wouldn't have been a book.

In LeGuin's culture (ours) women are much more familiar with power systems
that work under,and at different purposes from, the mainstream and obvious
power structures.  And they are more aware  of interpreting speech by
indirection, the not-spoken which is the meaning circled by the spoken.
If GEnly Ai had been a woman, she'd have snugged right down and chatted
in the same what I don't say is what I mean style and saved us all
hundreds of pages and a really powerful ending.  Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:08:26 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
> would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
> rather than a male.  What reminded me of this (re your question) was the 
> struggle the Earthling exhibited when he encountered the sexuality of the 
> female side of the planet's native.

That's a good question. I think that part of the answer is in the novel, 
in the chapter where a woman is talking (chap. 7.The Question of Sex). It 
is the only place (at least in the beginning of the story) where the 
sexuality and the gender of the Gethenians is analyzed in some way and 
not ONLY described as weird.

Sylvie
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:59:56 1995
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Date: 08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: "AMAZONS"
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: "AMAZONS"

           Sylvie, 
               Not quite the  same theme  as  the story  you described, but 
          still  in   the  ballpark:  "When  It  Changed"  by  Joanna  Russ 
          (anthologized several times);  THE  GATE  TO  WOMEN'S COUNTRY  by 
          Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
          MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
          this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
          originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 
          AMMONITE. It's a while since I read any of these, but all of them 
          feature  female-dominated  societies  with  some  sort  of   male 
          misunderstanding or opposition at  one point or another, and  all 
          of these societies WORK. "When  It Changed", written in  the  60s 
          and EXTREMELY controversial at  the time, is probably the closest 
          to meeting the criterion of  the original question. LEFT HAND  OF 
          DARKNESS also came to mind; glad  to  see someone else thought of 
          it. And I'd totally forgotten "Houston, Houston..."--another VERY 
          controversial story at the time of publication. Hope this helps. 
               Chris Callahan 
               "Migratory   life-form   with   a   tropismfor   bookstores" 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:30:19 1995
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 8 Mar 1995 13:26:49 EST
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 13:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michigan seems like a dream to me now <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Woman-dominated societies
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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I don't know if this is quite what you're thinking of, but Andre 
Norton's Witch World series comes to mind. At least one of the nations 
there is, if not matriarchal, at least very woman-powered. The witch 
power is sex-linked and appears only in women, therefore they are the 
dominant gender and the ones who ensure the safety of the nation.

There's also a woman-dominated society as I recall in Jim Aiken's "The 
Wall at the Edge of the World" but it's been a while since I read it 
so my memory is sketchy. Other than that, nothing comes to mind.

LLAP
-joan (the english chick)
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From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:48:59 1995
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From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Cataloging SF/F

Thanks, Colleen, for the info.

Here at UC Riverside, we tend to treat SF & F as literature, primarily.
Therein lies the pitfalls!  When we have a definite piece of literature, we
delete all those wonderful "--fiction" subjects.  This was a decision of
long ago, and it would be impossible to go back.  When we are dealing with
anthologies and the like, we do add subjects like "Science Fiction, American"
or "Fantasy literature, English"  "Horror tales, American", etc.

You might say that our emphasis is: printing info., illustrative info., any
possible series info., and, if there are mulitiple authors, or direct
relationships with other works (not "sequel to" stuff, but rather, in that
series vein), everything gets cross referenced.  It makes for a very
comprehensive cataloging record (not at all like copy-cataloging!).  It also
tends to take a very long time to catalog SF, because we do try to be
careful, and get all of our nit-picky requirements met.
I kind of wish we did have (and used) a genre thesaurus of subject headings,
but as stated before, we made the decision a long time ago to ignore such
subject headings.  Mores the pity.

Julie



In message Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:16:57 -0500,
  Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>  writes:

> Julie,
> 	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do
> not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor
> do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do
> you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings
> that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian
> literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature"
> and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is
> the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think
> of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject
> thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
> Colleen
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
> Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
> Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
> These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!
> __________________________________________________________________________
>

From shal  Wed Mar  8 11:48:27 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:48:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Any "Amazons" stories?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Camille wrote:

> Sylvie, Tiptree's "Houston, Houston, Do you Read" is a really famous
> story about male visitors getting it wrong.
> 
> Camille
> 

Camille, You spoiled the ending!   


Anyway, yes, read that one.  Some other "amazon" or women's society stories:

_The Adventures of Alex_ by Joanna Russ (real ancient Amazon straight out 
of Herodotus brought forward in time by people of the future doing research)

_The Gate to Women's Country_ by Sheri S. Tepper (a little too strident 
for my taste, but definietly a good example of the genre)



Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a wonderful story that is the opposite -- a 
planet colonized entirly by men, who form a closed society. One poor 
fellow has to leave the planet and the first women he encounters is a 
mercenary.  Right, so I can't remember the name of it. I'll see if I can 
find out.


Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From shal  Wed Mar  8 11:51:56 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
> would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
> rather than a male. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 

I attended a lecture by LeGuin some time ago where she was asked this. 
Her answer, as I recall, was that a woman protagonist would have understood 
the culture she encountered too quickly and would have happily set up 
housekeeping. End of story.  

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask] 
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:56:26 1995
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Date:         Wed, 08 Mar 95 11:36:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      RE: Amazon stories
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:15:22 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Bob--I had to laugh when I  read your thought experiment proposition
about LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS.  I've always thought that if the first
contact had been a woman, there wouldn't have been a book.

In LeGuin's culture (ours) women are much more familiar with power systems
that work under,and at different purposes from, the mainstream and obvious
power structures.  And they are more aware  of interpreting speech by
indirection, the not-spoken which is the meaning circled by the spoken.
If GEnly Ai had been a woman, she'd have snugged right down and chatted
in the same what I don't say is what I mean style and saved us all
hundreds of pages and a really powerful ending.  Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:08:26 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
> would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
> rather than a male.  What reminded me of this (re your question) was the 
> struggle the Earthling exhibited when he encountered the sexuality of the 
> female side of the planet's native.

That's a good question. I think that part of the answer is in the novel, 
in the chapter where a woman is talking (chap. 7.The Question of Sex). It 
is the only place (at least in the beginning of the story) where the 
sexuality and the gender of the Gethenians is analyzed in some way and 
not ONLY described as weird.

Sylvie

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:59:56 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: "AMAZONS"
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: "AMAZONS"

           Sylvie, 
               Not quite the  same theme  as  the story  you described, but 
          still  in   the  ballpark:  "When  It  Changed"  by  Joanna  Russ 
          (anthologized several times);  THE  GATE  TO  WOMEN'S COUNTRY  by 
          Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
          MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
          this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
          originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 
          AMMONITE. It's a while since I read any of these, but all of them 
          feature  female-dominated  societies  with  some  sort  of   male 
          misunderstanding or opposition at  one point or another, and  all 
          of these societies WORK. "When  It Changed", written in  the  60s 
          and EXTREMELY controversial at  the time, is probably the closest 
          to meeting the criterion of  the original question. LEFT HAND  OF 
          DARKNESS also came to mind; glad  to  see someone else thought of 
          it. And I'd totally forgotten "Houston, Houston..."--another VERY 
          controversial story at the time of publication. Hope this helps. 
               Chris Callahan 
               "Migratory   life-form   with   a   tropismfor   bookstores" 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:30:19 1995
Received: from ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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 (PMDF V4.3-7 #7710) id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed,
 8 Mar 1995 13:26:49 EST
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 13:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michigan seems like a dream to me now <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Woman-dominated societies
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I don't know if this is quite what you're thinking of, but Andre 
Norton's Witch World series comes to mind. At least one of the nations 
there is, if not matriarchal, at least very woman-powered. The witch 
power is sex-linked and appears only in women, therefore they are the 
dominant gender and the ones who ensure the safety of the nation.

There's also a woman-dominated society as I recall in Jim Aiken's "The 
Wall at the Edge of the World" but it's been a while since I read it 
so my memory is sketchy. Other than that, nothing comes to mind.

LLAP
-joan (the english chick)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|D. Joan  [log in to unmask]
|SEFEB, PSEB, MSEB, NVEB; SpotFancier..................Lunatic, lover and poet|
|President and Founding Member, JJ&JH Fan Club.........Mentes meae sicae sint!|
|MDI: B(**)TE(**)FB()H(!!)O()M()S()K(!)L(!)V(**)G(**)SB(**)..........TANSTAAFL|
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:48:59 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Cataloging SF/F

Thanks, Colleen, for the info.

Here at UC Riverside, we tend to treat SF & F as literature, primarily.
Therein lies the pitfalls!  When we have a definite piece of literature, we
delete all those wonderful "--fiction" subjects.  This was a decision of
long ago, and it would be impossible to go back.  When we are dealing with
anthologies and the like, we do add subjects like "Science Fiction, American"
or "Fantasy literature, English"  "Horror tales, American", etc.

You might say that our emphasis is: printing info., illustrative info., any
possible series info., and, if there are mulitiple authors, or direct
relationships with other works (not "sequel to" stuff, but rather, in that
series vein), everything gets cross referenced.  It makes for a very
comprehensive cataloging record (not at all like copy-cataloging!).  It also
tends to take a very long time to catalog SF, because we do try to be
careful, and get all of our nit-picky requirements met.
I kind of wish we did have (and used) a genre thesaurus of subject headings,
but as stated before, we made the decision a long time ago to ignore such
subject headings.  Mores the pity.

Julie



In message Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:16:57 -0500,
  Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>  writes:

> Julie,
> 	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do
> not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor
> do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do
> you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings
> that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian
> literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature"
> and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is
> the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think
> of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject
> thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
> Colleen
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
> Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
> Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
> These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!
> __________________________________________________________________________
>

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 11:56:26 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5968; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:43:32 -0500
Date:         Wed, 08 Mar 95 11:36:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      RE: Amazon stories
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:15:22 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Bob--I had to laugh when I  read your thought experiment proposition
about LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS.  I've always thought that if the first
contact had been a woman, there wouldn't have been a book.

In LeGuin's culture (ours) women are much more familiar with power systems
that work under,and at different purposes from, the mainstream and obvious
power structures.  And they are more aware  of interpreting speech by
indirection, the not-spoken which is the meaning circled by the spoken.
If GEnly Ai had been a woman, she'd have snugged right down and chatted
in the same what I don't say is what I mean style and saved us all
hundreds of pages and a really powerful ending.  Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:08:26 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA221952433; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:07:13 -0500
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Amazon stories
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> This is not really what you asked, but I have often wondered how Leguin 
> would have altered Left Hand of Darkness if the explorer had been a female 
> rather than a male.  What reminded me of this (re your question) was the 
> struggle the Earthling exhibited when he encountered the sexuality of the 
> female side of the planet's native.

That's a good question. I think that part of the answer is in the novel, 
in the chapter where a woman is talking (chap. 7.The Question of Sex). It 
is the only place (at least in the beginning of the story) where the 
sexuality and the gender of the Gethenians is analyzed in some way and 
not ONLY described as weird.

Sylvie
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:59:56 1995
Received: from ibm2.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA27699; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:59:56 -0500
Received: by MAIL.LOC.GOV
        (Soft*Switch Central V4L380P7) id 371859120095067FEMAIL;
        08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: "AMAZONS"
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: "AMAZONS"

           Sylvie, 
               Not quite the  same theme  as  the story  you described, but 
          still  in   the  ballpark:  "When  It  Changed"  by  Joanna  Russ 
          (anthologized several times);  THE  GATE  TO  WOMEN'S COUNTRY  by 
          Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
          MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
          this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
          originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 
          AMMONITE. It's a while since I read any of these, but all of them 
          feature  female-dominated  societies  with  some  sort  of   male 
          misunderstanding or opposition at  one point or another, and  all 
          of these societies WORK. "When  It Changed", written in  the  60s 
          and EXTREMELY controversial at  the time, is probably the closest 
          to meeting the criterion of  the original question. LEFT HAND  OF 
          DARKNESS also came to mind; glad  to  see someone else thought of 
          it. And I'd totally forgotten "Houston, Houston..."--another VERY 
          controversial story at the time of publication. Hope this helps. 
               Chris Callahan 
               "Migratory   life-form   with   a   tropismfor   bookstores" 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:30:19 1995
Received: from ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA107327; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:30:19 -0500
Received: from OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU by OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
 (PMDF V4.3-7 #7710) id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed,
 8 Mar 1995 13:26:49 EST
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 13:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michigan seems like a dream to me now <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Woman-dominated societies
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I don't know if this is quite what you're thinking of, but Andre 
Norton's Witch World series comes to mind. At least one of the nations 
there is, if not matriarchal, at least very woman-powered. The witch 
power is sex-linked and appears only in women, therefore they are the 
dominant gender and the ones who ensure the safety of the nation.

There's also a woman-dominated society as I recall in Jim Aiken's "The 
Wall at the Edge of the World" but it's been a while since I read it 
so my memory is sketchy. Other than that, nothing comes to mind.

LLAP
-joan (the english chick)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|D. Joan  [log in to unmask]
|SEFEB, PSEB, MSEB, NVEB; SpotFancier..................Lunatic, lover and poet|
|President and Founding Member, JJ&JH Fan Club.........Mentes meae sicae sint!|
|MDI: B(**)TE(**)FB()H(!!)O()M()S()K(!)L(!)V(**)G(**)SB(**)..........TANSTAAFL|
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:48:59 1995
Received: from ucrac1.ucr.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA111322; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:48:59 -0500
Received: from [138.23.84.26] by 138.23.84.26 with SMTP;
          Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:47:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Nupop-Charset: English
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Cataloging SF/F

Thanks, Colleen, for the info.

Here at UC Riverside, we tend to treat SF & F as literature, primarily.
Therein lies the pitfalls!  When we have a definite piece of literature, we
delete all those wonderful "--fiction" subjects.  This was a decision of
long ago, and it would be impossible to go back.  When we are dealing with
anthologies and the like, we do add subjects like "Science Fiction, American"
or "Fantasy literature, English"  "Horror tales, American", etc.

You might say that our emphasis is: printing info., illustrative info., any
possible series info., and, if there are mulitiple authors, or direct
relationships with other works (not "sequel to" stuff, but rather, in that
series vein), everything gets cross referenced.  It makes for a very
comprehensive cataloging record (not at all like copy-cataloging!).  It also
tends to take a very long time to catalog SF, because we do try to be
careful, and get all of our nit-picky requirements met.
I kind of wish we did have (and used) a genre thesaurus of subject headings,
but as stated before, we made the decision a long time ago to ignore such
subject headings.  Mores the pity.

Julie



In message Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:16:57 -0500,
  Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>  writes:

> Julie,
> 	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do
> not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor
> do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do
> you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings
> that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian
> literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature"
> and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is
> the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think
> of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject
> thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
> Colleen
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
> Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
> Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
> These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!
> __________________________________________________________________________
>

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 12:59:56 1995
Received: from ibm2.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA27699; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 12:59:56 -0500
Received: by MAIL.LOC.GOV
        (Soft*Switch Central V4L380P7) id 371859120095067FEMAIL;
        08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 08 Mar 1995 12:59:12 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: "AMAZONS"
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: "AMAZONS"

           Sylvie, 
               Not quite the  same theme  as  the story  you described, but 
          still  in   the  ballpark:  "When  It  Changed"  by  Joanna  Russ 
          (anthologized several times);  THE  GATE  TO  WOMEN'S COUNTRY  by 
          Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
          MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
          this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
          originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 
          AMMONITE. It's a while since I read any of these, but all of them 
          feature  female-dominated  societies  with  some  sort  of   male 
          misunderstanding or opposition at  one point or another, and  all 
          of these societies WORK. "When  It Changed", written in  the  60s 
          and EXTREMELY controversial at  the time, is probably the closest 
          to meeting the criterion of  the original question. LEFT HAND  OF 
          DARKNESS also came to mind; glad  to  see someone else thought of 
          it. And I'd totally forgotten "Houston, Houston..."--another VERY 
          controversial story at the time of publication. Hope this helps. 
               Chris Callahan 
               "Migratory   life-form   with   a   tropismfor   bookstores" 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:30:19 1995
Received: from ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA107327; Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:30:19 -0500
Received: from OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU by OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
 (PMDF V4.3-7 #7710) id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed,
 8 Mar 1995 13:26:49 EST
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 13:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Michigan seems like a dream to me now <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Woman-dominated societies
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I don't know if this is quite what you're thinking of, but Andre 
Norton's Witch World series comes to mind. At least one of the nations 
there is, if not matriarchal, at least very woman-powered. The witch 
power is sex-linked and appears only in women, therefore they are the 
dominant gender and the ones who ensure the safety of the nation.

There's also a woman-dominated society as I recall in Jim Aiken's "The 
Wall at the Edge of the World" but it's been a while since I read it 
so my memory is sketchy. Other than that, nothing comes to mind.

LLAP
-joan (the english chick)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|D. Joan  [log in to unmask]
|SEFEB, PSEB, MSEB, NVEB; SpotFancier..................Lunatic, lover and poet|
|President and Founding Member, JJ&JH Fan Club.........Mentes meae sicae sint!|
|MDI: B(**)TE(**)FB()H(!!)O()M()S()K(!)L(!)V(**)G(**)SB(**)..........TANSTAAFL|
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:48:59 1995
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From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Cataloging SF/F

Thanks, Colleen, for the info.

Here at UC Riverside, we tend to treat SF & F as literature, primarily.
Therein lies the pitfalls!  When we have a definite piece of literature, we
delete all those wonderful "--fiction" subjects.  This was a decision of
long ago, and it would be impossible to go back.  When we are dealing with
anthologies and the like, we do add subjects like "Science Fiction, American"
or "Fantasy literature, English"  "Horror tales, American", etc.

You might say that our emphasis is: printing info., illustrative info., any
possible series info., and, if there are mulitiple authors, or direct
relationships with other works (not "sequel to" stuff, but rather, in that
series vein), everything gets cross referenced.  It makes for a very
comprehensive cataloging record (not at all like copy-cataloging!).  It also
tends to take a very long time to catalog SF, because we do try to be
careful, and get all of our nit-picky requirements met.
I kind of wish we did have (and used) a genre thesaurus of subject headings,
but as stated before, we made the decision a long time ago to ignore such
subject headings.  Mores the pity.

Julie



In message Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:16:57 -0500,
  Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>  writes:

> Julie,
> 	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do
> not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor
> do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do
> you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings
> that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian
> literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature"
> and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is
> the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think
> of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject
> thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
> Colleen
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
> Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
> Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
> These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!
> __________________________________________________________________________
>

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 13:48:59 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 10:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Cataloging SF/F

Thanks, Colleen, for the info.

Here at UC Riverside, we tend to treat SF & F as literature, primarily.
Therein lies the pitfalls!  When we have a definite piece of literature, we
delete all those wonderful "--fiction" subjects.  This was a decision of
long ago, and it would be impossible to go back.  When we are dealing with
anthologies and the like, we do add subjects like "Science Fiction, American"
or "Fantasy literature, English"  "Horror tales, American", etc.

You might say that our emphasis is: printing info., illustrative info., any
possible series info., and, if there are mulitiple authors, or direct
relationships with other works (not "sequel to" stuff, but rather, in that
series vein), everything gets cross referenced.  It makes for a very
comprehensive cataloging record (not at all like copy-cataloging!).  It also
tends to take a very long time to catalog SF, because we do try to be
careful, and get all of our nit-picky requirements met.
I kind of wish we did have (and used) a genre thesaurus of subject headings,
but as stated before, we made the decision a long time ago to ignore such
subject headings.  Mores the pity.

Julie



In message Wed, 8 Mar 1995 07:16:57 -0500,
  Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>  writes:

> Julie,
> 	You asked about special collections cataloging of SF/F.  We do
> not give SF/F much special treatment here, what with backlogs, etc., nor
> do we note the illustrators, although I think that is a great idea.  Do
> you use _Genre terms_ thesaurus put out by ACRL?  It has several headings
> that would be useful (science fiction, fantasy literature, utopian
> literature), but has some holes also.  There is no "horror literature"
> and if you wanted to fine tune SF, that would be hard.  "Cyberpunk" is
> the one I can think of right now that is missing, but I sure I will think
> of more as time goes by.  For a large SF/F collection, I think a subject
> thesaurus would be very useful.  What do others think?
> Colleen
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
> Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
> Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
> These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!
> __________________________________________________________________________
>

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar  8 16:10:22 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 16:09:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Real "censorship", "virtual" censorship (fwd)
To: SF-LIT <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 00:53:51 -0500
From:[log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Censorship

Sylvie, I accidentally deleted your subject from the file so I am sending 
this to you personally.If you judge my reply to be of general interest, you 
may supply the correct subject and post it to [log in to unmask]

You said
>I a paper that I am preparing for a session on censorship held at the
Learned
>Societies Conference I will study the discursive reaction of the SF
>lovers (_"REAL"_ SF critiques and fandom) to the dishonest reception from
>the "mainstream press" sometimes that gets SF. This reaction, that I call
>counter-censorship (relatively speaking!), in its stronger
>appearances finds expression in glorifying SF readings and readership
>and in devaluating SF efforts from mainstream writers and readers. Other
>ripostes might be to prove theorically that SF is EVERYTHING (which is
>not untrue, but... ;-) ) or to retrench ourselves in closed communities.
>(If you think its gross, you must be right, my research is only beginning)
>
>It'd love to get your feedback/suggestions/references/reservations on 
>these topics. Any contribution will be helpfull.

   I believe the response of the CASFS membership to your questionaire is
relevant to your topic.
Science fiction writers and their readership have always been made up of
mavericks who run the
gamut of values from the most extreme liberalism to the most hide bound
conservatives and reac-
tionaries.
   In recent times strong forces have been attempting to drag the entire
genre into conformity from
all directions. The Liberals have been attempting to squelch the militiristic
and conservative elements
of SF. The religious right would remove the liberal, gay, and irreligious
elements. The result has been
an unfortunate shift toward the middle in an attempt by the magazine and book
publishers to please
all. I can see a time when Heinlein will be suppressed because he's a
militirist, Marian Zimmer Bradley
because she's gay, Harlan Ellision because he's an iconoclast etc. This
suppression will not be overt so
you can fight it, but will simply happen gradually.
   All that is best in SF is under attack. The real magic and appeal of SF and
 Fantasy is its presenta-
tion of the various extremes, political[1984], social[Brave New World],
moral[?], scientific[Robert W.
Forward]. Even the straight adventure is coming under pressure from militant
groups who wish to 
supress all violence in literature. If these forces have their way all of SF
will be reduced to dull, uniteresting
Pablum.
   All of these forces manfest themselves in Fandom and people deal with them
differently from those
who adopt an "in your face" belligerent defense to those who withdraw into
small groups and ignore all
others. CAFSS is made up of such diverse elements that I am frequently
surprised that it continues to 
exist. We have all types: scientists, filkers, gay and lesbian, gamers,
militirists, VietNam veterans,
sixties antiwar protesters, fundamentalist Christians, Neo-pagans.... You
name it, we've got it. Somehow
the leadership manages to hold the group to its purpose, which is to promote
printed SF and Fantasy 
and to hold Conventions.
 Few in this group are fans of political correctness because, having been
interacting for many years,
they have realized that there is no common body of beliefs among them which
could be agreed upon
as to its correctness.
   Your questionaire pushed the buttons of those who have the defensive
reactions. The feminists eagerly 
filled out, the militirists sneered, the non political fans ho-hummed and
filled it out. Both the feminist and 
the militirists thought you had an agenda. Neither knew what it was, but the
militirists were sure they would
hate it and the feminists thought they would like it. This, in a way,
mirrored the forces which work to inhibit
 SF.

   The worst affect of all of this is the stifling affect on current Science
Fiction.
 
               Gary


From shal  Wed Mar  8 18:58:50 1995
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 18:58:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Any "Amazons" stories?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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The Bujold novel with the all-male society I mentioned is called 
_Ethan of Athos_.  Also, Russ's book _The Adventures of Alex_ is a 
collection of Alex stories that includes the novella/short novel _Picnic 
on Paradise_ which was also published separately. So you may find either 
title -- the first just has a few additional short stories.

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 10:44:47 1995
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Date:         Thu, 09 Mar 95 10:40:41 EST
From: Sean Alan Wallace <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      INTRODUCTIONS
To: [log in to unmask]


Hi guys and girls,

In reference to Colleen's request for introductions, here it is:

My name is Sean Alan Wallace. I am currently going to the University of Akron,
and right now, 19. I started to read science fiction back when I was around
6 or 7 (John Christopher's Tripod Tri, was the first ones I think). I read
all types of science fiction and fantasy right now, but I really love the books
of E.C. Tubb. Right now, I'm doing a project on Tubb...my nickname is Lone Wolf
Hmmmmm....what else?         - Sean -

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 11:32:48 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Women and Reverse Censorship?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 9 Mar 1995 06:34:12 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

About the issue of mainstream writers and sf, the answer depends, like
with the elephant, on where you look.  Unfortunately academe reinforces
this idea of outside sf ghetto is good, inside it is trash.  Most of the
scholarly books have emphasized the works of Marge Piercy, Margaret Atwood,
and Doris Lessing, and allowed only a few women writers from the sf community
into the ranks of "Literature"--Joanna Russ, Usurla LeGuin, Susie McKee
Charnas, and occasionally James Tiptree Jr.  In the last couple of years
or so, a few more names have been added to the list, but one academic
actually said in her first chapter that no feminist literary science fiction
was being written by science fiction writers.  I assume this is in an effort
by women sf scholars to align their studies with the mainstream sufficiently

to win tenure in a workplace that considers science fiction trash (often, it
is taught by whoever would like to take a crack at it, rather than someone
who has studied it as a discipline).

On the other hand, science fiction fans I've interviewed about their
choices of books for award nominations make a clear distinction the other
way.  American fans say that the mainstreamers borrow the tropes, but
don't use them in the way they have been developed as conventional ways
of imparting information in the community.  English fans, on the other hand,
are much more likely to include the mainstreamers because they have nover had

the segregation of genres the way we have.   Canadian fans have an additional
twist, because Canada produces French-language science fiction as well.

The whole issue seems to be pretty self-serving.  High art might get tenure
when low art won't, so Piercy and Atwood and Lessing "count" to academics.
Lessing and Atwood are UK writers, and are considered sf in the UK, but not
by fans here (Doris Lessing was Guest of Honor at the last Worldcon in England)
And writers who can would rather be considered mainstream because they sell
a lot more books if they are marketed that way.  Unfortunately, few sf books
break out that way, and the more ambitious ones that don't aren't likely to
make the numbers of a Star Trek tie-in.  (Most breakout books won't make the
numbers of a Star Trek tie in with an author welll liked by the tie in audience

From cstu  Thu Mar  9 11:54:47 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:54:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: another stray
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here is another message I passed on that seems not to have made it out to 
you.  Sorry if it is a duplicate.
Colleen


           Sylvie, 
               Not quite the  same theme  as  the story  you described, but 
          still  in   the  ballpark:  "When  It  Changed"  by  Joanna  Russ 
          (anthologized several times);  THE  GATE  TO  WOMEN'S COUNTRY  by 
          Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
          MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
          this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
          originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 
          AMMONITE. It's a while since I read any of these, but all of them 
          feature  female-dominated  societies  with  some  sort  of   male 
          misunderstanding or opposition at  one point or another, and  all 
          of these societies WORK. "When  It Changed", written in  the  60s 
          and EXTREMELY controversial at  the time, is probably the closest 
          to meeting the criterion of  the original question. LEFT HAND  OF 
          DARKNESS also came to mind; glad  to  see someone else thought of 
          it. And I'd totally forgotten "Houston, Houston..."--another VERY 
          controversial story at the time of publication. Hope this helps. 
               Chris Callahan 
               "Migratory   life-form   with   a   tropismfor   bookstores" 


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 12:06:31 1995
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From: Adam Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:05:14 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Octavia Butler
Cc: [log in to unmask]


I know a lot of you subscribed to thist list reside in the DC/Metro area,
so I figured I'd send this to you in case any of you had any interest...

__________
> From [log in to unmask] Wed Mar  8 09:14:06 1995
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 17:26:31 -0500
> From: David L. Elliott <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Octavia Butler
> 
> Mike,
> SF writer Octavia Butler is giving the Slaughter Lecture this
> Thursday pm (March 9) in the Colony Ballroom of Stamp Union , 7- 9:30.
> 
> Title "Science, Science Fiction and the Black Community"...

(This would be at the Unviersity of Maryland at College Park).


--Adam

=============================================================================
| Adam John Cooper              | "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to  |
| [log in to unmask]          |  teach him to hold in higher regard those |
| [log in to unmask]             |  who think alike than those who think     |
| http://www.wam.umd.edu/~turin |  differently."               --Nietzsche  |
=============================================================================
|"Understand one another?  I fear I am beyond your comprehension" --Gandalf |
=============================================================================



From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 12:22:40 1995
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From: Adam Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:21:05 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Octavia Butler

Take two...

> I know a lot of you subscribed to thist list reside in the DC/Metro area,
> so I figured I'd send this to you in case any of you had any interest...
> 
> __________
> > From [log in to unmask] Wed Mar  8 09:14:06 1995
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 17:26:31 -0500
> > From: David L. Elliott <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Octavia Butler
> > 
> > Mike,
> > SF writer Octavia Butler is giving the Slaughter Lecture this
> > Thursday pm (March 9) in the Colony Ballroom of Stamp Union , 7- 9:30.
> > 
> > Title "Science, Science Fiction and the Black Community"...
> 
> (This would be at the Unviersity of Maryland at College Park).
> 
> 
> --Adam
> 
> =============================================================================
> | Adam John Cooper              | "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to  |
> | [log in to unmask]          |  teach him to hold in higher regard those |
> | [log in to unmask]             |  who think alike than those who think     |
> | http://www.wam.umd.edu/~turin |  differently."               --Nietzsche  |
> =============================================================================
> |"Understand one another?  I fear I am beyond your comprehension" --Gandalf |
> =============================================================================
> 
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 14:57:19 1995
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	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA295758744; Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:24 -0800
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 14:57:19 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar  9 15:28:18 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Real "censorship", "virtual" censorship (fwd)
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Hey, Gary, where did you get all those reactions to Sylvie's work.  I find 
it interesting, but I guess I slept through all the sneering, cheering and 
jeering.  Maybe my reaction was "ho hum" without my being aware of it.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From eaj  Thu Mar  9 15:49:05 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:49:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: KERR (fwd)
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I am forwarding this message on behalf of Hartley Walsh of the Library of 
Congress ...

------------------------------------
AUTHOR: PATRICK HARTLEY WALSH       
------------------------------------
          As  an aside to  the messages I've  been reading about  SF  where 
          women  operate  in  male dominated worlds,  I  just  thought  I'd 
          mention a book I'm reading now and enjoying very much entitled "A 
          Philosophical Investigation" by Philip Kerr,  also  the author of 
          "Berlin  Noir".  Technically, this  is  a "crime/mystery" author, 
          "Berlin  Noir"  having  been   set   in   the  1930's.   But   "A 
          Philosophical Investigation" is set in the UK in the near future, 
          2014, and concerns a woman police investigator's efforts to track 
          down  a serial killer who  keeps eliminating men  who  have  been 
          identified as having a  rare  brain anomaly that predisposes them 
          to  violence.   Much   of   the  story  describes  the  different 
          perspectives women and men have, both as detectives and killers.  
          It's mainstream, and most would exclude it  from "the field", but 
          you might want to refer to it.  I don't know how  to post to  the 
          SF/F Listserv, so  I'm  just  sending  it  to  EAJ  and  Colleen. 
          Hartley                                                           


From eaj  Thu Mar  9 15:49:05 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:49:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: KERR (fwd)
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I am forwarding this message on behalf of Hartley Walsh of the Library of 
Congress ...

------------------------------------
AUTHOR: PATRICK HARTLEY WALSH       
------------------------------------
          As  an aside to  the messages I've  been reading about  SF  where 
          women  operate  in  male dominated worlds,  I  just  thought  I'd 
          mention a book I'm reading now and enjoying very much entitled "A 
          Philosophical Investigation" by Philip Kerr,  also  the author of 
          "Berlin  Noir".  Technically, this  is  a "crime/mystery" author, 
          "Berlin  Noir"  having  been   set   in   the  1930's.   But   "A 
          Philosophical Investigation" is set in the UK in the near future, 
          2014, and concerns a woman police investigator's efforts to track 
          down  a serial killer who  keeps eliminating men  who  have  been 
          identified as having a  rare  brain anomaly that predisposes them 
          to  violence.   Much   of   the  story  describes  the  different 
          perspectives women and men have, both as detectives and killers.  
          It's mainstream, and most would exclude it  from "the field", but 
          you might want to refer to it.  I don't know how  to post to  the 
          SF/F Listserv, so  I'm  just  sending  it  to  EAJ  and  Colleen. 
          Hartley                                                           

From cstu  Fri Mar 10 07:09:11 1995
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 07:09:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Elizabeth Vonarburg
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Sigh! LISTPROC must have a bug, because either I am not getting this 
messages after I okay them or LISTPROC is not sending them out.  If you 
are getting duplicates of these messages (ones with intros by me), please 
let me know at [log in to unmask] and many thanks for your patience.
Colleen

>From [log in to unmask] Thu Mar 9
14:57:19 1995 Message-Tag: 2789 Received: from sequoia.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca
by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 10 05:22:47 1995
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	id m0rn1nX-0001OKC; Fri, 10 Mar 95 12:19 EET
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 12:19:55 +200 (EET)
From: Viivi Verrev <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Female societies
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Wed, 8 Mar 1995, Marina Frants wrote:

> 
> I recently read a new novella by Ursula LeGuin.  The title unfortunately escapes me,
> but I'll try to find the magazine at home.  It describes a society where, because of
> some weird genetic factors, male children are rare compared to female children.  The
> men are segregated in compunds where they spend all their time engaging in sports and
> ritual combat.  The women don't enter the compunds except when they want to get pregnant.
> That's what the men are, basically -- breeding stock.  

The heading is THE MATTER OF SEGGRI, in CRANK!, Issue no. 3, Spring 1994. 
Today THE GATE TO THE WOMEN'S COUNTRY WAS MENTIONED. It is written by 
Sheri S. Tepper. I am usually bad at names but the book impressed me 
deeply. A friend of mine accuses Tepper of "preachiness" and considers 
THE MATTER OF SEGGRI a perfect example of a "lean" story on the same 
theme.  

Regards, 
Viivi Verrev

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 10 18:55:45 1995
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:54:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: feminist utopias
To: [log in to unmask]
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Although she doesn't really deal with all-female worlds or with utopias 
directly, I'd like to mention a Canadian author is worth reading (and one too 
often overlooked by the publishing dominance of our neighbor to the south):  
Candace Jane Dorsey.  Her most important book is Machine Sex.

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 10 23:57:58 1995
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:56:42 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Real "censorship", "virtu...

Bob,
   The reactions were obtained at a meeting of the Central Arizona
Speculative Fiction Society held on  the last Friday of February at a 
local restaurant in Phoenix, Arizona.
   My comments were based on the actual survey and my long
experience with the local Fan groups both at meetings and our two
local conventions. I have been attending local conventions since the
1970's. (There were no local convetions before the 1970's).
   I have been reading SF and fantasy since 1954 or 1955. When I got
my English degree at ASU [B.A., 1967] you did not mention SF lest
your grades and prospects for advancement suffer. Fortunately the genre 
has gained slightly in stature since that time.
   Gary

From eaj  Sat Mar 11 09:20:13 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 09:20:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Critical Mass?
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hello SF-LIT.  The list now has 121 subscribers.  Not bad for only being 
in business a couple of months.  And last week I thought we had some good 
discussions going.  However, I think we should try to at least double the 
number of subscribers to attain the critical mass needed to keep the list 
going.  Colleen has sent out announcements of our new list to LOCUS and 
SF CHRONICLE.  An editor at SF STUDIES found out about our list and will 
make an annoucement as well.  If any of you can think of other places to 
announce the existence of SF-LIT, that would be great.  And, as always, 
don't forget to tell a friend or colleague that we're out here.  Hope 
you're having a good weekend.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From cstu  Sat Mar 11 18:29:07 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 18:29:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Critical Mass?
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Another try to get this one out. Colleen

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 09:20:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>


Hello SF-LIT.  The list now has 121 subscribers.  Not bad for only being 
in business a couple of months.  And last week I thought we had some good 
discussions going.  However, I think we should try to at least double the 
number of subscribers to attain the critical mass needed to keep the list 
going.  Colleen has sent out announcements of our new list to LOCUS and 
SF CHRONICLE.  An editor at SF STUDIES found out about our list and will 
make an annoucement as well.  If any of you can think of other places to 
announce the existence of SF-LIT, that would be great.  And, as always, 
don't forget to tell a friend or colleague that we're out here.  Hope 
you're having a good weekend.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From cstu  Sat Mar 11 18:31:49 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 18:31:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Another stray
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Speaking of strays, here is another the system stray.  Colleen

From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: another stray

Chris, the GATE TO WOMEN'S COUNTRY was written by Sheri Tepper, not
Elizabeth Scarborough.  Scarborough wrote many humorous fantasies, but
her real serious book is THE HEALER'S WAR, abut a nurse in Viet Nam during
the war.  She added a magical crystal to make it a fantasy, but mostly it
talks about the experience of being there, and being a woman.
Camille


From cstu  Sat Mar 11 18:31:49 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 18:31:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Another stray
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Speaking of strays, here is another the system stray.  Colleen

From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: another stray

Chris, the GATE TO WOMEN'S COUNTRY was written by Sheri Tepper, not
Elizabeth Scarborough.  Scarborough wrote many humorous fantasies, but
her real serious book is THE HEALER'S WAR, abut a nurse in Viet Nam during
the war.  She added a magical crystal to make it a fantasy, but mostly it
talks about the experience of being there, and being a woman.
Camille

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 10 22:25:38 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: another stray
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:56:04 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Chris, the GATE TO WOMEN'S COUNTRY was written by Sheri Tepper, not
Elizabeth Scarborough.  Scarborough wrote many humorous fantasies, but
her real serious book is THE HEALER'S WAR, abut a nurse in Viet Nam during
the war.  She added a magical crystal to make it a fantasy, but mostly it
talks about the experience of being there, and being a woman.
Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 11 13:03:58 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 12:02:37 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Real "censorship", "virtu...
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary:
OK.  Sorry!  I guess I'm gunshy in seeing everyone look for conspiracies.  
My joy is in reading SF (& fantasy) covering a variety of view points, 
seeing them as asking only "what if?...".  As a recently removed Acad. VP 
here remarked, "Just because not paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to 
get you."  Thanks for the clarification.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 13 13:36:01 1995
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From: "DENNIS ABBLITT UNBSJ" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  UNB Saint John
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:33:28 ADT
Mime-Version:  1.0
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I know that Jessica Amanda Salmonson had a sex change operation some 
years ago as she gave out this information in a letter that came with 
her fanzine. Does this count?                                         
                           Dennis.

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 13 13:57:31 1995
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Date:          Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:55:13 ADT
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Subject:       Advertising SF-LIT
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   Eric
        You might try sending notices to EXTRAPOLATION and FOUNDATION
        
                             Dennis.

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 13 14:38:58 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 12:37:33 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: notices of our BBS
To: [log in to unmask]
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I'd recommend placing a small ad in "The New York Review of Science Fiction" 
c/o Dragon Press, PO 78, Pleasantville, NY  10570;

and "Utopian Studies"  (I'll have to get the address tomorrow)

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 13 22:58:34 1995
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Date:         Mon, 13 Mar 95 22:43:02 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:43:29 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

I am on a media fandom list on listserve that does not have a usenet
connection.  tonight on my mail I found an announcement that our ADULT
fiction list had been cancelled until whoever is instructing our sysop
to do this has a "better definition of what Pornography is."

This is a lit that has never posted anything but mild vanilla sex
that turned out the lights and shut the door before the characters
ever got below the waste.

Why am I posting this here?  Well, first, sf, for all its literary

merit, has its roots in an interactive fan community--a community that
in numbers growing almost beyond comprehension is producing its own
fiction and posting it for free access on the net.  That rich ground
in which the love of sf is fostered and the new writers are trained is
even now being crushed.  The other reason I am posting here is that one
of the new developments in literary sf has been the growth of erotica
in the genres.  If the nets are imperiled, will the print media be
far behind?  Will the repression foster a renewed caution that drives
freedom of literary experimentation back underground (and where,
underground, will be left for it to go?)

Personally, I have never found the sex topics on the usenet of interest, and
 after the Michigan affair I can understand that the law has to be
clear in its protection to people who are threatened directly and
specifically regardless of the media in which the threat is communicated.

  But when that clear need is used as an excuse to control any expression
of anything remotely sexual in fiction for public consumption I am more
than concerned--I am in a dead panic.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 07:05:07 1995
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From: Sandy Moltz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Women's Societies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 7:03:42 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Two more books that I hadn't seen mentioned in the discussion of women-run
societies in SF: _Les Guerrillieres_ (sp.?) by Monique Wittig and _The Kin
of Ata are watching You_ by Dorothy Bryant.
Re: Advertising this List - suggest you post a message on rec.arts.sf.reviews
at [log in to unmask]
      Sandy Moltz  [log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 07:22:46 1995
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        14 Mar 1995 07:21:07 EST
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 14 Mar 1995 07:21:07 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: ADVERTISING
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: ADVERTISING

          A  good place to advertise would be thru the  New England Science 
          Fiction Association (NESFA); their pubs. have  a  wide readership 
          outside the basic organization, and they are serious about sf. 
               To Camille: thanks  for  the correction. That's what happens 
          when I don't check my library before making a statementÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
               "Where  is  human  nature  so  weak  as  in  the bookstore?" 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 08:08:11 1995
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From: "DENNIS ABBLITT UNBSJ" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  UNB Saint John
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:06:00 ADT
Mime-Version:  1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Subject:       sf porn
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

  Camille 
         Can't say that I've noticed a growth in soft porn in SF 
  recently. It was much more prolific in the 50's and 60's when large 
  numbers of small press paperbacks were published in the field. I 
  seem to recall Bob Silverberg wrote many porn works under various 
  pseudonyms. This type of work seemed to dry up because the market 
  dryed up - not because of censorship. Despite the rise of political 
  correctness, I do not think that this is a time and culture when 
  censorship can totally crush market forces.
   
                            Dennis

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 08:08:11 1995
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From: "DENNIS ABBLITT UNBSJ" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  UNB Saint John
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:06:00 ADT
Mime-Version:  1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Subject:       sf porn
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

  Camille 
         Can't say that I've noticed a growth in soft porn in SF 
  recently. It was much more prolific in the 50's and 60's when large 
  numbers of small press paperbacks were published in the field. I 
  seem to recall Bob Silverberg wrote many porn works under various 
  pseudonyms. This type of work seemed to dry up because the market 
  dryed up - not because of censorship. Despite the rise of political 
  correctness, I do not think that this is a time and culture when 
  censorship can totally crush market forces.
   
                            Dennis

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 13:37:48 1995
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 11:36:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: advertising of our listserv
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway.

Here's the address for the journal I mentioned yesterday:

Utopian Studies
c/o Lyman Tower Sargent, Ed.
Department of Political Science
University of Missouri-St. Louis
St. Louis, Missouri  63121-4499

Might be worth putting a note in Canada's major SF publication:

On Spec
P.O. Box 4727
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
	T6E 5G6




From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 14:30:40 1995
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	id AA05428; Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:29:13 -0500
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 14:29:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Harold L. Drake" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: A. E. van Vogt story
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9503141431.A5234-0100000@marauder>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 515

	Does anyone have documentation(anything which has been published, or 
an otherwise authoritative source) regarding the last sentence in A. E.
 van Vogt's novel, THE WEAPON MAKERS, New York: Pocket Books, 1979--the story
first published in ASTOUNDING SCIENCE FICTION, 1943?  The sentence in question
is:
	"...Here is the race that shall rule the sevagram."
	I'm also interested in the word SEVAGRAM.

	I need complete bibliographic citations.

	Thanks for any help.

	Best,

	H. Drake
	[log in to unmask]
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 16:48:30 1995
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Date:         Tue, 14 Mar 95 16:45:21 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 14 Mar 1995 06:45:17 -0500 from <amille<@loc.gov>

      Oh, by the way, before people on this list who know me start choking
to death on their snorting in disbelief--I don't mean to say that I don't
like stories with lots of sex in them.  However, I don't read them off the
net--preferring paper.

And I know I spelled waist wrong--sometimes I get confused.

Camille

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 16:48:30 1995
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Date:         Tue, 14 Mar 95 16:45:21 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 14 Mar 1995 06:45:17 -0500 from <amille<@loc.gov>

      Oh, by the way, before people on this list who know me start choking
to death on their snorting in disbelief--I don't mean to say that I don't
like stories with lots of sex in them.  However, I don't read them off the
net--preferring paper.

And I know I spelled waist wrong--sometimes I get confused.

Camille
From cstu  Tue Mar 14 17:30:37 1995
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 17:30:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf porn
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here is another message that fell through the cracks.
Colleen

>From Dennis Abblitt:
[log in to unmask]

  Camille 
         Can't say that I've noticed a growth in soft porn in SF 
  recently. It was much more prolific in the 50's and 60's when large 
  numbers of small press paperbacks were published in the field. I 
  seem to recall Bob Silverberg wrote many porn works under various 
  pseudonyms. This type of work seemed to dry up because the market 
  dryed up - not because of censorship. Despite the rise of political 
  correctness, I do not think that this is a time and culture when 
  censorship can totally crush market forces.
   
                            Dennis




From cstu  Tue Mar 14 21:55:23 1995
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          id AA40691; Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:55:23 -0500
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:55:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg From Fran Skene
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here is another message that I am resending.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran




From cstu  Tue Mar 14 21:55:23 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA40691; Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:55:23 -0500
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:55:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg From Fran Skene
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here is another message that I am resending.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran



From cstu  Wed Mar 15 06:51:32 1995
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          id AA103507; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 06:51:32 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 06:51:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Bill
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Trying again on this message.
Colleen

From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL

      Oh, by the way, before people on this list who know me start choking
to death on their snorting in disbelief--I don't mean to say that I don't
like stories with lots of sex in them.  However, I don't read them off the
net--preferring paper.

And I know I spelled waist wrong--sometimes I get confused.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 20:00:57 1995
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    Tue, 14 Mar 95 16:59:38 GMT-8
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Cal State Univ Long Beach - Library
Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

Colleen and Eric:

Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:

SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
#103, Oakland, CA 94611.

SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.

SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
use:) [log in to unmask]

The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
appropriate Category and Topic.

Hope this helps!

Leslie

Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
University Library
California State University, Long Beach
1250 Bellflower Boulevard
Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
Voice: (310) 985-8327
Fax: (310) 985-1703
Internet: [log in to unmask]
GEnie: [log in to unmask]

 . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 14 20:00:57 1995
Received: from garuda.csulb.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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    Tue, 14 Mar 95 16:59:38 GMT-8
Received: from MERCURYQ by FELIX (Mercury 1.13); Tue, 14 Mar 95 16:58:16 GMT-8
To: [log in to unmask]
From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Cal State Univ Long Beach - Library
Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

Colleen and Eric:

Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:

SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
#103, Oakland, CA 94611.

SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.

SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
use:) [log in to unmask]

The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
appropriate Category and Topic.

Hope this helps!

Leslie

Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
University Library
California State University, Long Beach
1250 Bellflower Boulevard
Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
Voice: (310) 985-8327
Fax: (310) 985-1703
Internet: [log in to unmask]
GEnie: [log in to unmask]

 . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.

From cstu  Wed Mar 15 11:44:07 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA103122; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:44:07 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:44:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

#$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
Colleen

From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

Colleen and Eric:

Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:

SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
#103, Oakland, CA 94611.

SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.

SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
use:) [log in to unmask]

The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
appropriate Category and Topic.

Hope this helps!

Leslie

Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
University Library
California State University, Long Beach
1250 Bellflower Boulevard
Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
Voice: (310) 985-8327
Fax: (310) 985-1703
Internet: [log in to unmask]
GEnie: [log in to unmask]

 . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.


From cstu  Wed Mar 15 11:46:11 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA95019; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:46:11 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:46:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Another LISTPROC snauf.
Colleen

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Elisabeth Vonarburg

On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Chris Callahan wrote:

>           Elizabeth  Scarborough;  GLORY  SEASON  by  David  Brin;  IN  THE 
>           MOTHER'S LAND (I think) by Elizabeth Vonarburg (sp?; I'm vague on 
>           this,  but  I  think  she's  French Canadian  and  the  book  was 
>           originally published in  French). Also possibly Nicola Griffith's 

***
You almost have the spelling right - see subject line.  Yes, she is 
French Canadian, and French as well (immigrated as an adult).  And yes, 
she writes in French.  The English translations are competently done by 
Jane Brierley.

I wonder if IN THE MOTHERS LAND is related (same setting? alternate 
title?) to THE MAERLANDE CHRONICLES, "a world of the far future that has 
survived the Decline where the few survivors are forced to create a new 
society."  (from the blurb on the latter book)

The author teaches at the university in Chicoutimi, Quebec and writes 
in her spare time.  She is a multiple winner of the Aurora Award for 
best Canadian SF in French.  I want to mention here that Elisabeth is a 
delightful woman, in case anyone finds him/herself at the same conference.


Cheers,   Fran




From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 14:05:06 1995
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          Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:53:32 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 20:53:32 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Russian SF awards nominations
Lines: 94

Professional literary award STRANNIK (Wanderer) nomination
list for 1995. Will be awarded during SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia
in late March 1995.

The nomination years: 1992-1994.

I. Mech Rumaty (Sword of Rumata) - for heroic-romantic sf&f.

1. Yuri Braider & Nikolai Chadovich. GOSPEL OF TIMOFEY and MAKSAR'S BLADES
(1st & 2nd parts of tetralogy PATH). Floks Publishers, 1994.

2. Sergey Ivanov. THE TWO. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

3. Lubov Lukina & Yevgeny Lukin. BLADE STRIKING DOWN. Miry magazine, 1993.

4. Sergey Lukyanenko. THE ATOMIC DREAM. Periodika Publishers, 1992.

5. Sergey Lukyanenko. THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS. Terra Fantastica,
1992.

6. Vladimir Mikhailov. LORD (3rd novel of WATCHER FOR MY BROTHER. Floks
Publishers, 1993.

7. Alexander Ruban. PHEAKEAN SHIPS. Fanta-Crim magazine, 1992.

---------------------------------------------
II. SWORD IN MIRROR (alternate histories).

1. Sergey Bulyga. LISAVETA IVANNA GIVES YOU HER COMPLIMENTS. Fanta-Crim
magazine, 1992.

2. Kir Bulychev. THE PRESERVE FOR ACADEMICIANS. Text Publishers, 1994.

3. Vasily Zvyagintsev. ODISSEY LEAVES ITAKA, Severo-Zapad, 1993.

4. R.S.Katz. THE HISTORY OF THE SOVIET SPECULATIVE FICTION, Saratov
University Press, 1993.

5. Andrey Lazarchuk. DIFFERENT SKY. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

6. Somercet Moughem. JULY 2, 1904. VIAN Publishers, 1994. (an
alternate biography of Anton P. Chekhov by the (fake) famous English
writer).

7. Vyacheslav Rybakov. STAR SHIP "TSESAREVICH". Neva magazine, 1993.

-------------------------------------------
III. MOON SWORD (horror)

1. Andrey Lazarchuk. MUMMY. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

2. G.L.Oldy. FEAR. Vtoroy Blin publishers, 1994.

3. Victor Pelevin. NEWS FROM NEPAL. Text publishers, 1992.

4. Nikolay Romanetsky. THE BOAT ON THE SECOND LINE. Fanta-Crim magazine,
1994.

5. Alexander Tyurin. THE STORY OF CALM HORROR. Fanta-Crim magazine, 1993.

6. Alexander Shchegolev. WHO CALLED ME?. Neva magazine, 1992.

-------------------------------------------
IV. SWORD IN STONE (Fantasy, fairy tales)

1. Sergey Ivanov. WINGS THUNDERING. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

2. Sergey Kazmenko. DRAGON'S SIGN. LiterA publishers, 1993.

3. Leonid Kudryavtsev. THE BLACK WALL. Miry magazine, 1993.

4. Svyatoslav Loginov. HONEY OF LIFE. Chudesa I Dikoviny magazine, 1992.

5. Nik Perumov. THE RING OF DARKNESS. Severo-Zapad, 1993.

6. Mikhail Uspensky. THERE, WHERE WE ARE NOT PRESENT. Den I Noch magazine,
1994.

7. Vladimir Firsov. THE FOURTH MOON TALE. Uralsky Sledopyt magazine, 1993.

---------------------------------------
These nomination lists were compiled by the Strannik nomination committee
on December 25, 1994 and voted for by all with no exception.

   Chairman:              Boris Strugatsky
   Executive Secretary:   Boris Zavgorodny
   Members:               Alexander Kashirin,
                          Andrey Nikolaev,
                          Sergey Pereslegin,
                          Alexander Sidorovich,
                          Nikolay Yutanov.
-------------------------------------------------------
received from Sergey Berezhnoy of Spectre Literary Agency
translated into English by Boris Sidyuk

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 14:17:39 1995
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	id AA01857; Wed, 15 Mar 95 11:14:35 PST
Received: by equinox.unr.edu (5.67b/1.34)
	id AA24563; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:18 -0800
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950315110934.20633F-100000@equinox>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 14:17:39 1995
Received: from solstice.ccs.unr.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA97238; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 14:17:39 -0500
Received: from equinox.unr.edu (equinox.ccs.unr.edu) by solstice.ccs.unr.edu (4.1/1.34)
	id AA01857; Wed, 15 Mar 95 11:14:35 PST
Received: by equinox.unr.edu (5.67b/1.34)
	id AA24563; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:18 -0800
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950315110934.20633F-100000@equinox>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 15:31:45 1995
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          id AA97088; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 15:31:45 -0500
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  (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for <sf-lit%loc.gov@internet>);
  Wed, 15 Mar 1995 15:30:24 -0500
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	id AA11594; Wed, 15 Mar 95 15:30:30 EST
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 15:30:30 EST
From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf porn


I seem to have missed the start of this thread, so forgive
me if this message comes out of left field.  While pornography
(or erotica, depending on your P.O.V.) isn't as common in sf
as it once was, it's alive and well in horror.  Witness such
anthologies as _I Shudder at Your Touch_, _Shudder Again_, 
and _Love in Vein_.  For an sf version of this, there's 
Ellen Datlow's _Alien Sex_ anthology.

Circlet Press publishes a whole lots of anthologies of
horror and dark fantasy erotica.  It's nowhere near mainstream,
but it makes enough money to keep going.

On another track, are any list members going to be at
Lunacon this weekend?

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 18:10:30 1995
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          id AA72126; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:10:30 -0500
Received: by osfn.rhilinet.gov id AA25272
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for [log in to unmask]); Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:08:45 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:08:45 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (Paul DiFilippo)
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: porn & vonarburg
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]



Foax--
Hi!  I found you guys in LOCUS--certainly neither the first nor
last time you'll hear this--and this is my first post.
Masquerade Books in NY is doing a little SF erotica:  reissues
of Delany, Farmer, etc.  More excitingly, Delany's new THE MAD MAN,
which has no SF content.  Fiction Collective Two is also issuing
Delany's HOGG, which he wrote in the 60's right after TIDES OF
LUST, but was never published.
E. Vonarburg's new RELUCTANT VOYAGERS is the first book of
hers I've read.  Very good, and recommended.
Upcoming from Bantam as a mass market paperback.

--
Paul Di Filippo/2 Poplar St./Providence, RI 02906/401-751-0139
"Real eyes realize real lies."
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 18:44:17 1995
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          id AA68723; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:44:17 -0500
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 15:40:29 PDT
From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Subject: Award Nominees
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.

Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 18:44:17 1995
Received: from fungusaur.wizards.com by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA68723; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:44:17 -0500
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 15:40:29 PDT
From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Subject: Award Nominees
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.

Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?

From cstu  Wed Mar 15 20:26:39 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA42989; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:26:39 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:26:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Russian SF Award Nominations
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Message from Boris Sidyuk reposted by Colleen.

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 95 20:53:32 +0200
Subject: Russian SF awards nominations
Lines: 94

Professional literary award STRANNIK (Wanderer) nomination
list for 1995. Will be awarded during SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia
in late March 1995.

The nomination years: 1992-1994.

I. Mech Rumaty (Sword of Rumata) - for heroic-romantic sf&f.

1. Yuri Braider & Nikolai Chadovich. GOSPEL OF TIMOFEY and MAKSAR'S BLADES
(1st & 2nd parts of tetralogy PATH). Floks Publishers, 1994.

2. Sergey Ivanov. THE TWO. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

3. Lubov Lukina & Yevgeny Lukin. BLADE STRIKING DOWN. Miry magazine, 1993.

4. Sergey Lukyanenko. THE ATOMIC DREAM. Periodika Publishers, 1992.

5. Sergey Lukyanenko. THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS. Terra Fantastica,
1992.

6. Vladimir Mikhailov. LORD (3rd novel of WATCHER FOR MY BROTHER. Floks
Publishers, 1993.

7. Alexander Ruban. PHEAKEAN SHIPS. Fanta-Crim magazine, 1992.

---------------------------------------------
II. SWORD IN MIRROR (alternate histories).

1. Sergey Bulyga. LISAVETA IVANNA GIVES YOU HER COMPLIMENTS. Fanta-Crim
magazine, 1992.

2. Kir Bulychev. THE PRESERVE FOR ACADEMICIANS. Text Publishers, 1994.

3. Vasily Zvyagintsev. ODISSEY LEAVES ITAKA, Severo-Zapad, 1993.

4. R.S.Katz. THE HISTORY OF THE SOVIET SPECULATIVE FICTION, Saratov
University Press, 1993.

5. Andrey Lazarchuk. DIFFERENT SKY. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

6. Somercet Moughem. JULY 2, 1904. VIAN Publishers, 1994. (an
alternate biography of Anton P. Chekhov by the (fake) famous English
writer).

7. Vyacheslav Rybakov. STAR SHIP "TSESAREVICH". Neva magazine, 1993.

-------------------------------------------
III. MOON SWORD (horror)

1. Andrey Lazarchuk. MUMMY. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

2. G.L.Oldy. FEAR. Vtoroy Blin publishers, 1994.

3. Victor Pelevin. NEWS FROM NEPAL. Text publishers, 1992.

4. Nikolay Romanetsky. THE BOAT ON THE SECOND LINE. Fanta-Crim magazine,
1994.

5. Alexander Tyurin. THE STORY OF CALM HORROR. Fanta-Crim magazine, 1993.

6. Alexander Shchegolev. WHO CALLED ME?. Neva magazine, 1992.

-------------------------------------------
IV. SWORD IN STONE (Fantasy, fairy tales)

1. Sergey Ivanov. WINGS THUNDERING. Terra Fantastica, 1993.

2. Sergey Kazmenko. DRAGON'S SIGN. LiterA publishers, 1993.

3. Leonid Kudryavtsev. THE BLACK WALL. Miry magazine, 1993.

4. Svyatoslav Loginov. HONEY OF LIFE. Chudesa I Dikoviny magazine, 1992.

5. Nik Perumov. THE RING OF DARKNESS. Severo-Zapad, 1993.

6. Mikhail Uspensky. THERE, WHERE WE ARE NOT PRESENT. Den I Noch magazine,
1994.

7. Vladimir Firsov. THE FOURTH MOON TALE. Uralsky Sledopyt magazine, 1993.

---------------------------------------
These nomination lists were compiled by the Strannik nomination committee
on December 25, 1994 and voted for by all with no exception.

   Chairman:              Boris Strugatsky
   Executive Secretary:   Boris Zavgorodny
   Members:               Alexander Kashirin,
                          Andrey Nikolaev,
                          Sergey Pereslegin,
                          Alexander Sidorovich,
                          Nikolay Yutanov.
-------------------------------------------------------
received from Sergey Berezhnoy of Spectre Literary Agency
translated into English by Boris Sidyuk

From cstu  Wed Mar 15 20:28:09 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA87363; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:28:09 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:28:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Message from Milton Wolf reposted by Colleen.

----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950315110934.20633F-100000@equinox>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 


From cstu  Wed Mar 15 20:28:09 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA87363; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:28:09 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:28:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Message from Milton Wolf reposted by Colleen.

----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950315110934.20633F-100000@equinox>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 23:47:34 1995
Received: from cari.telecom.uqam.ca by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA22012; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:47:34 -0500
Received: from nobel.si.uqam.ca by cari.telecom.uqam.ca 
	(4.1/SMI-4.2.1.pop NIS) id AA16784; Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:46:13 EST
Received: by nobel.si.uqam.ca
	(1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA139939200; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:46:40 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:46:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: porn & vonarburg
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Paul DiFilippo wrote:

> E. Vonarburg's new RELUCTANT VOYAGERS is the first book of
> hers I've read.  Very good, and recommended.
> Upcoming from Bantam as a mass market paperback.

If you liked this book, maybe you should read her first novel _Silent 
City_ or her short story "Chambered Nautilus" in _Tesseract 4_ (1992).

Sylvie Berard
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 23:51:37 1995
Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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   with BSMTP id 4944; Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:50:20 EST
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1275; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:50:25 -0500
Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 15 Mar 1995 06:35:40 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 15 23:51:37 1995
Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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   with BSMTP id 4944; Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:50:20 EST
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1275; Wed, 15 Mar 1995 23:50:25 -0500
Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 15 Mar 1995 06:35:40 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille
From cstu  Thu Mar 16 08:13:59 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA59910; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 08:13:59 -0500
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 20:28:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 08:13:55 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
Resent-To: [log in to unmask]
Resent-Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

Message from Milton Wolf reposted by Colleen.

----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950315110934.20633F-100000@equinox>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 



From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 09:17:05 1995
Received: from relay.ubss.com by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA17321; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:17:05 -0500
Received: from na.ubs.com by relay.ubss.com with SMTP id AA09600
  (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for <[log in to unmask]>);
  Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:15:43 -0500
Received: from uniblab.na.ubs.com (uniblab.ubs.com [161.239.30.101]) by na.ubs.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with SMTP id JAA00131 for <[log in to unmask]>; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:23:00 -0500
Received: by uniblab.na.ubs.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA14414; Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:16:07 EST
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 09:16:07 EST
From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Russian SF Award Nominations

Thanks to Colleen for posting the Russian award nominations.  Hm, wonder
how hard it is to get copies of some of this stuff...  The name Vtoroy
Blin Publishers made me laugh.  "Vtoroy Blin" means "Second Pancake".

It's great to see than so much fantasy fiction is being writter in Russia
now.  When I was growing up in the Soviet Union, there was some science
fiction around, but basically no fantasy except folk tales, fairy tales,
and some children's books. (And even those were targeted for censorship at
various times -- see Korney Chukovsky's essay "In Defense of the Fairy Tale.")
The only adult fantasy I reading in Russia was "The Master and Margarita,"
which was banned most of the time.

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Thu Mar 16 09:58:55 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA18854; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:58:55 -0500
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 09:58:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Retry of RE: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Message from Milton Wolf reposted by Colleen.
 
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:16:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)

Since SFRA has been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to "plug" SFRA 
as a good way to stay "wired" to conversations like we have been having.  
In fact, the SFRA conferences are largely just what you have been talking 
about (I have been lurking).  Anyway, benefits with membership (for on 
$60 annual; 50 for students) include: subscriptions to EXTRAPOLATION, 
SCIENCE-FICTION STUDIES, SFRA REVIEW, AND SFRA DIRECTORY.  Also, 
discounts to FOUNDATION.  If you read all these (and contribute), many of 
your questions would have been covered.  
	The annual conference this year in June in Grand Forks includes 
the following guests: John Brunner, Amy Thomson, Lisa Mason, and Charles 
Sheffield(?) or Vernor Vinge (?).  This is an intimate conference where 
you can actually talk with the guests.  
	If interested, contact me.  Best,

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Wed, 15 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> #$%@*&# LISTPROC!  
> Colleen
> 
> From: "Leslie Swigart"  <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:         14 Mar 95 16:58:12 PST
> Subject:      Critical Mass Assistance Help (Maybe)
> Priority: normal
> X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> 
> Colleen and Eric:
> 
> Some additional places to which you might send info on SF-LIT are:
> 
> SFRA REVIEW, the bimonthly newsletter of the Science Fiction
> Research Association.  Editor: Amy Sisson, 3845 Harrison Street,
> #103, Oakland, CA 94611.
> 
> SFRA President Joe Sanders, 6354 Brooks Boulevard, Mentor, Ohio 44060.
> 
> SFRA Immediate Past President David G. Mead, 6021 Grassmere, Corpus
> Christi, TX 78415.  Internet: [log in to unmask] (note: this is
> what is in the SFRA Directory; I seem to recall a recent note from
> Dave on GEnie that his I'net address had changed, so you may want to
> use:) [log in to unmask]
> 
> The SysOp of GEnie's three (maybe soon to be four) Science Fiction
> Roundtables, Nic Grabien: [log in to unmask] for posting to an
> appropriate Category and Topic.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Leslie
> 
> Leslie Kay Swigart, Librarian
> University Library
> California State University, Long Beach
> 1250 Bellflower Boulevard
> Long Beach, CA 90840-1901
> Voice: (310) 985-8327
> Fax: (310) 985-1703
> Internet: [log in to unmask]
> GEnie: [log in to unmask]
> 
>  . . . who read about SF-LIT in the latest LOCUS.
> 


From cstu  Thu Mar 16 10:04:24 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA85507; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:04:24 -0500
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:04:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposts - an explanation
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I feel I should explain the messages you are seeing with a header from me 
stating the message is a "reposting".  Right now LISTPROC is having 
problems and is choking on one of the addresses in its file, so it does 
not seem to be distributing the messages, even after it has told me the 
message was sent out.  If I see that a certain message has not gone out 
even after a later message has appeared, I am "reposting" these older 
messages in hopes they will make it through.  In some cases, I repost 
several times.  
When you see a repost, it is NOT a message from me, as in the case of the 
Russian SF list (I blushed when thanked for posting it as Boris Sidyuk 
really did all the work, Thanks Boris!).  If responding to a reposted 
message, please ID the person who wrote the message.  Needless to say, 
when the LISTPROC problem is solved, I will let you know (and I will be 
celebrating!).

Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Thu Mar 16 10:06:11 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA171900; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:06:11 -0500
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:06:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Award Nominees  
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message by Dave Howell from Colleen.

From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Subject: Award Nominees

I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.

Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?


From cstu  Thu Mar 16 10:07:10 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA69840; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:07:10 -0500
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:07:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Re: sf porn
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message from Camille by Colleen

Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille


From cstu  Thu Mar 16 10:07:10 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:07:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Re: sf porn
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message from Camille by Colleen

Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 10:28:48 1995
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 16 Mar 1995 10:27:19 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:27:18 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Award Nominees
To: [log in to unmask]
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Dave Howell asked for a list of either Hugo or Nebula nominees.  I happen 
to have the latest issue of _Locus_ here, which offers the Nebula Awards 
Final Ballot:

	NOVELS

Moving Mars / Greg Bear

Parable of the Sower / Octavia Butler

Gun with Occasional Music / Jonathan Lethem

Towing Jehovah / James Morrow

Temporary Agency / Rachel Pollack

Green Mars / Kim Stanley Robinson

A Night in the Lonesome October / Roger Zelazny



	NOVELLAS

Mefisto in Onyx / Harlan Ellison

Haunted Humans / Nina Kiriki Hoffman

Forgiveness Day / Ursula Le Guin

Seven Views of Olduvai Gorge / Mike Resnick

Fan / Geoff Ryman

Cold Iron / Michael Swanwick


	NOVELETTES

Necronauts / Terry Bisson

The Martian Child / David Gerrold

The Skeleton Key / Nina Kiriki Hoffman

The Singular Habits of Wasps / Geoffrey A. Landis

The Matter of Seggri / Ursula Le Guin

Nekropolis / Maureen F. McHugh


	SHORT STORIES

Inspiration / Ben Bova

None So Blind / Joe Haldeman

Understanding Entropy / Barry Malzberg

Virtual Love / Maureen F. McHugh

A Defense of the Social Contracts / Martha Soukup

I Know What You're Thinking / Kate Wilhelm


Says here "voting will close March 31.  The winners will be announced at 
the Nebula Banquet in New York on April 22."


Fiona Kelleghan
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 10:40:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees



> 
> I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
> Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
> Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
> wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.
> 
> Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?

I don't have the issue of Locus in front of me (which by the way is where I
heard about this discussion list), but it seems to me that both of these novels
were nominated for a Nebula.  The Nebula nominations were in the latest issue
of Locus.

This year's Hugo nominees will not be out until a little later this year.  The
nominating ballots are due to be postmarked by the end of March.

Joe Karpierz

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 10:40:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees



> 
> I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
> Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
> Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
> wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.
> 
> Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?

I don't have the issue of Locus in front of me (which by the way is where I
heard about this discussion list), but it seems to me that both of these novels
were nominated for a Nebula.  The Nebula nominations were in the latest issue
of Locus.

This year's Hugo nominees will not be out until a little later this year.  The
nominating ballots are due to be postmarked by the end of March.

Joe Karpierz

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 12:08:59 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 11:56:48 edt
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Forwarded: Reposting of Award Nominees  

CEO comments:
From: Mark Stackpole:CEO
Date: ## 03/16/95 11:54 ##
"Moving Mars" & "Gun with...Music" are Nebula nominees. "Towering 
Jehovah" is another. The complete list is on the same page on LOCUS 
where I found out about this Listserv.
Mark Stackpole
 

Message:
From: (Colleen Stumbaugh) [log in to unmask]:smtp
Date: ## 03/16/95 10:21 ##
Reposting of message by Dave Howell from Colleen.

From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Subject: Award Nominees

I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.

Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?




From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 12:48:02 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Thu, 16 Mar 1995 10:48:09 MST
Subject:       Gender and Superbeings
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I'm another newcomer brought to this group by the notice in _Locus_.
I have two requests.  First, I am chairing this year's Pilgrim Award
Committee for the SFRA, and I invite any of you who are members to
send me nominations of people you would like to see honored for
sustained work (generally critical, but it can also be
bibliographical, educational, archival, etc.) on science fiction 
and/or fantasy.  Past winners include Brian Aldiss, Darko Suvin, Damon
Knight, Joanna Russ, Peter Nicholls, Ursula Le Guin, Samuel Delany,
John Clute, and a number of others I can't remember at the moment.

Second, I am currently working on a number of projects related to
ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
strikingly different from the men. 

Here are some examples to show what I mean:

    Supermen

A.E. Van Vogt, _Slan_  (or practically anything else by Van Vogt)
Henry Kuttner, the Baldy stories
James Blish, _Jack of Eagles_
Philip K. Dick, "The Golden Man"

    Superwomen
    
C. L. Moore, "The Children's Hour"
Octavia Butler, _Mind of My Mind_


I welcome suggestions of short or long works containing either 
character type that you have found memorable.  

Brian Attebery
[log in to unmask]    

From cstu  Thu Mar 16 13:28:31 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:28:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Re: sf porn (2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message from Camille by Colleen

Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille



From cstu  Thu Mar 16 13:38:13 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:38:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Re: sf porn 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message from Camille by Colleen, No. 2

Date:         Wed, 15 Mar 95 23:45:41 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: sf porn

Dennis--There is a growing market for erotic sf and fantasy, mostly
catered by specialty houses--Masquerade has been doing some--and
small press, like Circlet Press.  There is also a thriving underground
amateur fiction that has not diminished in years--Apas in sf, and of
course the erotic underground media-based fiction.  At most cons in
the East, and at Magicon and ConFrancisco, there were panels on erotic
fiction  (I, ahem, was a panelist both years.  In Orlando, the panel
ran a full hour over time, to a fairly large, crowded room.  No one left
for another event until we simply could not speak anymore.

Camille



From cstu  Thu Mar 16 14:02:45 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 14:02:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Here is a message Boris sent me that I am going to forward to the list.
Colleen

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 20:47:51 +0200
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees

For those who would like to have Nebula and Hugo nomination lists.
There are two ftp sites you can get the lists from.

(from Ansible by Dave Langford)
THE WEB OF THE CHOZEN
Hugo awards list, http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/hugos/hugos.html
Nebula awards list,
 http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/nebulas/nebulas.html
The Scottish Convention, http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/intersection
The Scottish Convention science programme,
 http://www.hq.eso.org/~dclement/items.html
-----------------
(Scottish Convention is this year Worldcon)

> Reposting of message by Dave Howell from Colleen.
>
> From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
> Subject: Award Nominees
>
> I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
> Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
> Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
> wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.
>
> Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 15:16:13 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:14:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If you're doing supermen, I imagine you'd have to include Maud'Dib from 
_Dune_.

Matt Hartman
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 15:33:28 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: feminist utopias
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
	Thanks in advance.

	Matthew Hartman
	[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 16:00:26 1995
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Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95  13:21:35 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Anatomy of Wonder 4
To: "SF & Fantasy Discussion Forum" <[log in to unmask]>

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

This may not be news to very many of you, but Bowker has recently published
the fourth edition of Neil Barron's valuable reference, Anatomy of Wonder. The
copy for our library came just today, so I've not had a chance to look it
over. I've always been impressed with previous editions, though.

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 15:33:28 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: feminist utopias
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
	Thanks in advance.

	Matthew Hartman
	[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 16:00:26 1995
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Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95  13:21:35 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Anatomy of Wonder 4
To: "SF & Fantasy Discussion Forum" <[log in to unmask]>

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

This may not be news to very many of you, but Bowker has recently published
the fourth edition of Neil Barron's valuable reference, Anatomy of Wonder. The
copy for our library came just today, so I've not had a chance to look it
over. I've always been impressed with previous editions, though.

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715
From cstu  Thu Mar 16 19:54:58 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 19:54:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: feminist utopias
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of a message from Matthew Hartman by Colleen

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: feminist utopias

	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
	Thanks in advance.

	Matthew Hartman
	[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Thu Mar 16 19:56:28 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 19:56:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting of Anatomy of Wonder 4
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of a message from Bob Roehm by Colleen

Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95  13:21:35 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Anatomy of Wonder 4

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

This may not be news to very many of you, but Bowker has recently published
the fourth edition of Neil Barron's valuable reference, Anatomy of Wonder. The
copy for our library came just today, so I've not had a chance to look it
over. I've always been impressed with previous editions, though.

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 20:30:04 1995
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Your message, 
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: Brian Attebery <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Brian,
	This may seem off the track of your question, but Shaw's Back to 
Methuselah features Lillith as a genetically superwoman.  If your 
research moves in that direction, I would be interested in publishing 
your article in a Special Issue of SHAW devoted to "Speculative Fiction 
and Shaw."  It will be published by Penn State Press in the Spring of 1996.

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I'm another newcomer brought to this group by the notice in _Locus_.
> I have two requests.  First, I am chairing this year's Pilgrim Award
> Committee for the SFRA, and I invite any of you who are members to
> send me nominations of people you would like to see honored for
> sustained work (generally critical, but it can also be
> bibliographical, educational, archival, etc.) on science fiction 
> and/or fantasy.  Past winners include Brian Aldiss, Darko Suvin, Damon
> Knight, Joanna Russ, Peter Nicholls, Ursula Le Guin, Samuel Delany,
> John Clute, and a number of others I can't remember at the moment.
> 
> Second, I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 
> 
> Here are some examples to show what I mean:
> 
>     Supermen
> 
> A.E. Van Vogt, _Slan_  (or practically anything else by Van Vogt)
> Henry Kuttner, the Baldy stories
> James Blish, _Jack of Eagles_
> Philip K. Dick, "The Golden Man"
> 
>     Superwomen
>     
> C. L. Moore, "The Children's Hour"
> Octavia Butler, _Mind of My Mind_
> 
> 
> I welcome suggestions of short or long works containing either 
> character type that you have found memorable.  
> 
> Brian Attebery
> [log in to unmask]    
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 16:49:28 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 16:49:52 1995
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 

You can find the story of a female messiah in Suzette Haden Elgin's 
_Star-Anchored, Star-Angered_ (I only have the French reference).

If you also include in your research characters such as mutants, I would 
suggest Anne McCaffrey's _The Rowan_ (New York: Ace/Putman, 1990).

I hope this is helpful

	Bonne chance!
	Sylvie Berard
	[log in to unmask]
        .................................................................
                "But the fact is, I really _really_ hate housework, even
                 when someone else is doing it."
                                                        Pat Cadigan

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 16 19:28:17 1995
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Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:25:25 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:23:00 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Brian, Butler's WILD SEED has a male superbeing and a female superbeing
in conflict.  It is my favorite of her books, and I think it is the
first of which MIND was the sequel.  I vastly preferrred WILD SEED.

Camille

From cstu  Fri Mar 17 13:04:57 1995
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          id AA92046; Fri, 17 Mar 1995 13:04:57 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 13:04:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: feminist utopias (fwd2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-reposting of a message from Matthew Hartman by Colleen

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: feminist utopias

	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
	Thanks in advance.

	Matthew Hartman
	[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 17 16:40:44 1995
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          id AA43221; Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:40:44 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:40:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of a message from Milton Wolf by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: Brian Attebery <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings

Brian,
	This may seem off the track of your question, but Shaw's Back to 
Methuselah features Lillith as a genetically superwoman.  If your 
research moves in that direction, I would be interested in publishing 
your article in a Special Issue of SHAW devoted to "Speculative Fiction 
and Shaw."  It will be published by Penn State Press in the Spring of 1996.

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I'm another newcomer brought to this group by the notice in _Locus_.
> I have two requests.  First, I am chairing this year's Pilgrim Award
> Committee for the SFRA, and I invite any of you who are members to
> send me nominations of people you would like to see honored for
> sustained work (generally critical, but it can also be
> bibliographical, educational, archival, etc.) on science fiction 
> and/or fantasy.  Past winners include Brian Aldiss, Darko Suvin, Damon
> Knight, Joanna Russ, Peter Nicholls, Ursula Le Guin, Samuel Delany,
> John Clute, and a number of others I can't remember at the moment.
> 
> Second, I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 
> 
> Here are some examples to show what I mean:
> 
>     Supermen
> 
> A.E. Van Vogt, _Slan_  (or practically anything else by Van Vogt)
> Henry Kuttner, the Baldy stories
> James Blish, _Jack of Eagles_
> Philip K. Dick, "The Golden Man"
> 
>     Superwomen
>     
> C. L. Moore, "The Children's Hour"
> Octavia Butler, _Mind of My Mind_
> 
> 
> I welcome suggestions of short or long works containing either 
> character type that you have found memorable.  
> 
> Brian Attebery
> [log in to unmask]    
> 

From cstu  Fri Mar 17 16:42:07 1995
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          id AA84751; Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:42:07 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:42:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//


From cstu  Fri Mar 17 16:43:13 1995
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          id AA84813; Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:43:13 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:43:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting from Camille by colleen.

Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:25:25 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>

Brian, Butler's WILD SEED has a male superbeing and a female superbeing
in conflict.  It is my favorite of her books, and I think it is the
first of which MIND was the sequel.  I vastly preferrred WILD SEED.

Camille

From cstu  Fri Mar 17 16:44:56 1995
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          id AA36255; Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:44:56 -0500
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 16:44:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of a message from Sylvie Berard by Colleen

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: [log in to unmask]

On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 

You can find the story of a female messiah in Suzette Haden Elgin's 
_Star-Anchored, Star-Angered_ (I only have the French reference).

If you also include in your research characters such as mutants, I would 
suggest Anne McCaffrey's _The Rowan_ (New York: Ace/Putman, 1990).

I hope this is helpful

	Bonne chance!
	Sylvie Berard
	[log in to unmask]
        .................................................................
                "But the fact is, I really _really_ hate housework, even
                 when someone else is doing it."
                                                        Pat Cadigan


From cstu  Sat Mar 18 17:46:26 1995
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          id AA21711; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:46:26 -0500
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:46:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: feminist utopias (fwd3)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Again Re-reposting of a message from Matthew Hartman by Colleen

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: feminist utopias

	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
	Thanks in advance.

	Matthew Hartman
	[log in to unmask]



From cstu  Sat Mar 18 17:46:57 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA97238; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:46:57 -0500
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:46:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Re-reposting of a message from Milton Wolf by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: Brian Attebery <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings

Brian,
	This may seem off the track of your question, but Shaw's Back to 
Methuselah features Lillith as a genetically superwoman.  If your 
research moves in that direction, I would be interested in publishing 
your article in a Special Issue of SHAW devoted to "Speculative Fiction 
and Shaw."  It will be published by Penn State Press in the Spring of 1996.

                                    _
                                  _|_|_
                                ^/ . ..\^
                            ___[=========]___
                 ___-==++""" .  /. . .  \ .  """++==-___
           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
        _/_/                      ""=""                      \_\_
       /_/                                                     \_\
      //                            |                            \\
     /")                          \ | /                          ("\
     \o\                           \*/                           /o/
      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
                                   /*\
                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I'm another newcomer brought to this group by the notice in _Locus_.
> I have two requests.  First, I am chairing this year's Pilgrim Award
> Committee for the SFRA, and I invite any of you who are members to
> send me nominations of people you would like to see honored for
> sustained work (generally critical, but it can also be
> bibliographical, educational, archival, etc.) on science fiction 
> and/or fantasy.  Past winners include Brian Aldiss, Darko Suvin, Damon
> Knight, Joanna Russ, Peter Nicholls, Ursula Le Guin, Samuel Delany,
> John Clute, and a number of others I can't remember at the moment.
> 
> Second, I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 
> 
> Here are some examples to show what I mean:
> 
>     Supermen
> 
> A.E. Van Vogt, _Slan_  (or practically anything else by Van Vogt)
> Henry Kuttner, the Baldy stories
> James Blish, _Jack of Eagles_
> Philip K. Dick, "The Golden Man"
> 
>     Superwomen
>     
> C. L. Moore, "The Children's Hour"
> Octavia Butler, _Mind of My Mind_
> 
> 
> I welcome suggestions of short or long works containing either 
> character type that you have found memorable.  
> 
> Brian Attebery
> [log in to unmask]    
> 


From cstu  Sat Mar 18 17:47:44 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA31982; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:47:44 -0500
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:47:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//




From cstu  Sat Mar 18 17:48:58 1995
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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:48:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Re-reposting from Camille by colleen.

Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:25:25 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>

Brian, Butler's WILD SEED has a male superbeing and a female superbeing
in conflict.  It is my favorite of her books, and I think it is the
first of which MIND was the sequel.  I vastly preferrred WILD SEED.

Camille


From cstu  Sat Mar 18 17:49:30 1995
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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:49:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-reposting of a message from Sylvie Berard by Colleen

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: [log in to unmask]

On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 

You can find the story of a female messiah in Suzette Haden Elgin's 
_Star-Anchored, Star-Angered_ (I only have the French reference).

If you also include in your research characters such as mutants, I would 
suggest Anne McCaffrey's _The Rowan_ (New York: Ace/Putman, 1990).

I hope this is helpful

	Bonne chance!
	Sylvie Berard
	[log in to unmask]
        .................................................................
                "But the fact is, I really _really_ hate housework, even
                 when someone else is doing it."
                                                        Pat Cadigan



From @plymouth.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 19 02:17:34 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:15:23 +0000
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From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 20 03:41:44 1995
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	id AA14835; Mon, 20 Mar 95 00:36:50 -0800
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 00:35:12 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <199503200035.AAA05513@offico0>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: nrb not accessing mail


Hello!

I'll be out of the office through Thursday (returning on
Friday, the 24th) but checking my email every evening.
If you need someone immediately, please contact Betty
Monteban (esm, x1451), if not, you'll have a reply from
me by tomorrow morning.
 
Thanks!

Nancy
 



From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:40:53 1995
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          id AA22412; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:40:53 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:40:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: feminist utopias (fwd2) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Forwarded message:

>   Re-reposting of a message from Matthew Hartman by Colleen
>
>   Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
>   From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
>   Subject: feminist utopias
>
>           Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting
>   together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some
>   feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So
>   far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula
>   LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any
>   suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
>           Thanks in advance.

You can add to your list Olga Larionova's LEOPARD FROM THE MOUNTAIN
KILIMANJARO, and maybe some works of Lidiya Obuhova and Dalia Truskinovskaya.

>
>           Matthew Hartman
>           [log in to unmask]

Reagrds, Boris



From @plymouth.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 20 06:52:53 1995
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:09:13 +0000
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:09:07 +0000
Subject: WARNING: message delayed at "plymouth.ac.uk"

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  message for you.

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 20 06:54:11 1995
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Via: uk.ac.plymouth; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:46:04 +0000
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          Mon, 20 Mar 95 11:37:02 GMT
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From: Ruth Ballam <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: University of Plymouth
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:37:41 GMT
Subject: Re: feminist utopias (fwd2)
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac (v2.1.2)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

>Date:          Sat, 18 Mar 1995 17:50:19 -0500
>Reply-to:      [log in to unmask]
>From:          Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
>To:            Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:       feminist utopias (fwd2)
>
>Re-reposting of a message from Matthew Hartman by Colleen
>
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:32:01 -0500 (EST)
>From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: feminist utopias
>
>	Hello.  I'm new to this list, and I have a question.  I'm putting 
>together a reading list of "classic" utopias, and I'm trying to find some 
>feminist utopias (or nonfeminist utopias by women to add to my list).  So 
>far I've rounded up the usual suspects: Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Ursula 
>LeGuin, Joanna Russ, and Suzy McKee Charnas.  Does anyone have any 
>suggestions for books or reference material/bibliographies?
>	Thanks in advance.
>
>	Matthew Hartman
>	[log in to unmask]
>

You could also take a look at Storm Constantine (sp?)


-------------------------------------------
[log in to unmask]
Ruth Ballam,
Computing Service,
University of Plymouth,
Earl Richard's Road North,
Exeter,  Devon,  EX4 4BP,  UK  
Tel: (01392) 475 057
-------------------------------------------

From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:58:56 1995
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          id AA15142; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:58:56 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:58:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd3) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, Re-reposting of a message from Milton Wolf by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Milton Wolf <[log in to unmask]>
To: Brian Attebery <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gender and Superbeings

Brian,
	This may seem off the track of your question, but Shaw's Back to 
Methuselah features Lillith as a genetically superwoman.  If your 
research moves in that direction, I would be interested in publishing 
your article in a Special Issue of SHAW devoted to "Speculative Fiction 
and Shaw."  It will be published by Penn State Press in the Spring of 1996.

                                    _
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                            ___[=========]___
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           __-+"" __\   .. . .  | ..  . |  . .  .   /__ ""+-__
          /\__+-""   `-----=====\_ <O> _/=====-----'   ""-+__/\
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      \_)                       --**O**--                       (_/
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                                  / | \

                   Where no librarian has dared to go

                        Internet: [log in to unmask]

                                    OR
                        
                         BITnet: sfwolf@equinox
                    
                          Voice: (702) 784-4577 

                           FAX: (702) 784-1751


On Thu, 16 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> I'm another newcomer brought to this group by the notice in _Locus_.
> I have two requests.  First, I am chairing this year's Pilgrim Award
> Committee for the SFRA, and I invite any of you who are members to
> send me nominations of people you would like to see honored for
> sustained work (generally critical, but it can also be
> bibliographical, educational, archival, etc.) on science fiction 
> and/or fantasy.  Past winners include Brian Aldiss, Darko Suvin, Damon
> Knight, Joanna Russ, Peter Nicholls, Ursula Le Guin, Samuel Delany,
> John Clute, and a number of others I can't remember at the moment.
> 
> Second, I am currently working on a number of projects related to
> ways of representing and rethinking gender in SF.  One of the areas
> that I wish to analyze in terms of gender is the trope of the
> superbeing--someone who represents an evolutionary step forward from
> Homo sapiens because of extraordinary intelligence, psychic
> abilities, or other powers.  It seems to me that the majority of
> these I have come across are super-men and that the concept is
> strongly gender-marked.  The few fictional super-women I know of are
> strikingly different from the men. 
> 
> Here are some examples to show what I mean:
> 
>     Supermen
> 
> A.E. Van Vogt, _Slan_  (or practically anything else by Van Vogt)
> Henry Kuttner, the Baldy stories
> James Blish, _Jack of Eagles_
> Philip K. Dick, "The Golden Man"
> 
>     Superwomen
>     
> C. L. Moore, "The Children's Hour"
> Octavia Butler, _Mind of My Mind_
> 
> 
> I welcome suggestions of short or long works containing either 
> character type that you have found memorable.  
> 
> Brian Attebery
> [log in to unmask]    
> 



From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:59:17 1995
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          id AA108094; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:17 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd3) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, Re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//




From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:59:42 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA22346; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:42 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd3) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, Re-reposting from Camille by colleen.

Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:25:25 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>

Brian, Butler's WILD SEED has a male superbeing and a female superbeing
in conflict.  It is my favorite of her books, and I think it is the
first of which MIND was the sequel.  I vastly preferrred WILD SEED.

Camille




From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:59:17 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA108094; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:17 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd3) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, Re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//




From cstu  Mon Mar 20 06:59:42 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA22346; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:42 -0500
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:59:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gender and Superbeings (fwd3) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, Re-reposting from Camille by colleen.

Date:         Thu, 16 Mar 95 19:25:25 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gender and Superbeings
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>

Brian, Butler's WILD SEED has a male superbeing and a female superbeing
in conflict.  It is my favorite of her books, and I think it is the
first of which MIND was the sequel.  I vastly preferrred WILD SEED.

Camille




From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 07:20:37 1995
Received: from bham.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA28651; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:20:37 -0500
Via: bham.ac.uk; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:18:27 +0000
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 12:18:02 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List?
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"21_Mar_95_12:18:02_GMT_#9725"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>

As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
people feel?
Jonathan Laidlow










From cstu  Tue Mar 21 08:06:11 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA88814; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:06:11 -0500
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:06:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd5)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sigh!
Once again, re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen.

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//







From cstu  Tue Mar 21 08:11:47 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA46885; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:11:47 -0500
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:11:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd5)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sigh! Once again, re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by Colleen. 

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//








From cstu  Tue Mar 21 08:21:49 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA20554; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:21:49 -0500
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:21:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings (fwd5) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Okay, yet again! Re-reposting of Message from Ive Velez by 
Colleen. 

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:48 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: RE:Gender and Superbeings

Hi,
I am also new to this list and I will like to provide some input
to the request made by Brian Attebery for works in which the
concept of superbeings is used. I think that the series of books
written by Ben Bova about a character called Orion is a good
example. I do not know if there are other books on this series,
but I have read the followings:
_Orion_, _Vengance_of_Orion_  and _Orion_in_the_Dying_Time_.

The being called Orion is created by the human beings of the future,
which are god-like, and sent to the past as a champion to fight
against forces who want to change the future of humankind. As he goes
thru the past he participates on different historical events like:
the Great Flood, the taking of Troy, the fall of the walls of Jerico,
etc.

Anyway, it is a nice mixture of superbeings with time travel.



       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
|                        Ive Edgardo Velez                          |
|                       Arecibo, Puerto Rico                        |
|                    e-mail: [log in to unmask]                    |
|                                                                   |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//









From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 08:59:08 1995
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Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95  08:58:37 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Thomas Burnett Swann
To: "SF & Fantasy Discussion Forum" <[log in to unmask]>

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.

I'm helping Matt with this project, and since he does not have Internet access
I'm passing along this request. Swann's fiction and non-fiction books are, as
far as we can tell, thoroughly documented. However, Swann was a prolific poet
in the 50s and early 60s and a great many of these poems have yet to be
tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.

If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
them, we'd certainly appreciate it.

Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.

Thanks to anyonewho might be willing to help or who has an interest in the
finished book.

Bob

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 09:23:29 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:21:53 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:21:53 -0500 (EST)
From: John Noel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pilgrim award - Neil Barron
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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	I would like to nominate Neil Barron for the Pilgrim Award.
Barron's enormously helpful "Anatomy of Wonder", now in its 4th edition,
has set the standard for science fiction bibliographic guides. This
resource, first published in 1976, is one of most successful comprehensive
bibliographies ever put together. Barron et al have filled a void in science
fiction literature that has existed since the beginning of the genre. 

	John Noel
	Reference Librarian
	University of New Orleans

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 08:59:08 1995
Received: from ulkyvm.louisville.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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   with BSMTP id 8785; Tue, 21 Mar 95 08:58:37 EST
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 with BSMTP id 6140; Tue, 21 Mar 95 08:58:37 EST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95  08:58:37 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Thomas Burnett Swann
To: "SF & Fantasy Discussion Forum" <[log in to unmask]>

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.

I'm helping Matt with this project, and since he does not have Internet access
I'm passing along this request. Swann's fiction and non-fiction books are, as
far as we can tell, thoroughly documented. However, Swann was a prolific poet
in the 50s and early 60s and a great many of these poems have yet to be
tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.

If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
them, we'd certainly appreciate it.

Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.

Thanks to anyonewho might be willing to help or who has an interest in the
finished book.

Bob

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 09:23:29 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:21:53 -0500 (EST)
From: John Noel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pilgrim award - Neil Barron
To: [log in to unmask]
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X-Vms-Cc: JNOEL
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	I would like to nominate Neil Barron for the Pilgrim Award.
Barron's enormously helpful "Anatomy of Wonder", now in its 4th edition,
has set the standard for science fiction bibliographic guides. This
resource, first published in 1976, is one of most successful comprehensive
bibliographies ever put together. Barron et al have filled a void in science
fiction literature that has existed since the beginning of the genre. 

	John Noel
	Reference Librarian
	University of New Orleans
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 10:59:45 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 06:22:00 EST 
From: jd32 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: symposium 
Sender: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list UTOPIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
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Reply-To: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
From: jd32 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      symposium
To: Multiple recipients of list UTOPIA-L
              <[log in to unmask]>

To:  Utopian Studies List Subscribers
From:  Jane Donawerth, [log in to unmask]

SCIENCE FICTION BY WOMEN SYMPOSIUM
Thursday 13 April, 1995  1:30 to 8:30 pm
University of Maryland at College Park

1:30 - 3:00  Maryland Room, Marie Mount Hall
Panel 1:  Utopias by United States Women:  Origins of Science Fiction by Women
Carol Kolmerten on "Strategies for Encouraging New Visions:  Utopian Fiction
by American Women writers at the Turn of the Century"
Carol Farley Kessler on "THE VENUSIAN DREAM, a Newly Recovered 1949 Utopian,
and U. S. Utopian Fiction by Women before 1950"
Discussion led by Melissa Sites

3:00 - 3:30  Tea

3:30 - 5:00  Maryland Room, Marie Mount Hall
Panel 2:  Contemporary Science Fiction by Women:  Theory and Practice
Robin Roberts on "Gender and Science Fiction"
Jane Donawerth on "Cross-Dressing as a Male Narrator"
Discussion led by Carole Breakstone

5:00 - 7:00 Dinner break

7:00 - 8:30 University Book Center, Stamp Student Union
Panel 3:  Reading by Science Fiction Writers
Severna Park, author of SPEAKING DREAMS
Carol Emshwiller, author of CARMEN DOG
Discussion led by Katie King

8:30 Refreshments and book signings

Free and open to the public.
However, so we know how many to prepare for, please send your name, address,
telephone number or e-mail address to Jane Donawerth, Department of English,
Univeristy of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 or to [log in to unmask]

Symposium sponsored by College of Arts and Humanities, Department of
English, University Book Center, Center for Teaching Excellence, and
Comparative Studies Program.


------------ End Forwarded Message -------------
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 11:37:14 1995
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          Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:35:08 +0000
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <"21_Mar_95_12:18:02_GMT_#9725"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 21, 95 07:53:22 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 12:07:05 1995
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Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:08:14 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: SF List?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:58:54 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Jonathan--I am doing an ethnography of the science fiction community in
the United States, including the fans and the publishers and writers.
I am also co-editing a collection of essays with a feminist topic, but
we haven't contacted all the potential scholars we would like involved,
so I can't get any more specific yet.

Feminist scholarship in sf seems really big now, and cyberpunk, but if
you are not using postmodern theory, I don't know what you would do with it.

By the way, I've never gotten funding, and I've done all my work on my
charge cards.  I don't know if I might have been funded, but I was too
busy doing the work to stop and fill out papers.  And my subjects always
had something strange and controversial in them to make them problematic.

I hope this helps.

Camille Bacon-Smith
English Department
Temple University

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 09:23:29 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:21:53 -0500 (EST)
From: John Noel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pilgrim award - Neil Barron
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
X-Vms-Cc: JNOEL
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


	I would like to nominate Neil Barron for the Pilgrim Award.
Barron's enormously helpful "Anatomy of Wonder", now in its 4th edition,
has set the standard for science fiction bibliographic guides. This
resource, first published in 1976, is one of most successful comprehensive
bibliographies ever put together. Barron et al have filled a void in science
fiction literature that has existed since the beginning of the genre. 

	John Noel
	Reference Librarian
	University of New Orleans
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 10:59:45 1995
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From: jd32 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: symposium 
Sender: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list UTOPIA-L <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>.

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 21 Feb 1995 06:24:58 -0500
Date:         Tue, 21 Feb 1995 06:22:00 EST
Reply-To: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Utopias and Utopianism <[log in to unmask]>
From: jd32 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      symposium
To: Multiple recipients of list UTOPIA-L
              <[log in to unmask]>

To:  Utopian Studies List Subscribers
From:  Jane Donawerth, [log in to unmask]

SCIENCE FICTION BY WOMEN SYMPOSIUM
Thursday 13 April, 1995  1:30 to 8:30 pm
University of Maryland at College Park

1:30 - 3:00  Maryland Room, Marie Mount Hall
Panel 1:  Utopias by United States Women:  Origins of Science Fiction by Women
Carol Kolmerten on "Strategies for Encouraging New Visions:  Utopian Fiction
by American Women writers at the Turn of the Century"
Carol Farley Kessler on "THE VENUSIAN DREAM, a Newly Recovered 1949 Utopian,
and U. S. Utopian Fiction by Women before 1950"
Discussion led by Melissa Sites

3:00 - 3:30  Tea

3:30 - 5:00  Maryland Room, Marie Mount Hall
Panel 2:  Contemporary Science Fiction by Women:  Theory and Practice
Robin Roberts on "Gender and Science Fiction"
Jane Donawerth on "Cross-Dressing as a Male Narrator"
Discussion led by Carole Breakstone

5:00 - 7:00 Dinner break

7:00 - 8:30 University Book Center, Stamp Student Union
Panel 3:  Reading by Science Fiction Writers
Severna Park, author of SPEAKING DREAMS
Carol Emshwiller, author of CARMEN DOG
Discussion led by Katie King

8:30 Refreshments and book signings

Free and open to the public.
However, so we know how many to prepare for, please send your name, address,
telephone number or e-mail address to Jane Donawerth, Department of English,
Univeristy of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 or to [log in to unmask]

Symposium sponsored by College of Arts and Humanities, Department of
English, University Book Center, Center for Teaching Excellence, and
Comparative Studies Program.


------------ End Forwarded Message -------------
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 11:37:14 1995
Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA52487; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:37:14 -0500
Received: from uxa.liv.ac.uk by mail.liv.ac.uk with SMTP (PP);
          Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:35:08 +0000
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <"21_Mar_95_12:18:02_GMT_#9725"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 21, 95 07:53:22 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Content-Length: 1669      

In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 12:07:05 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: SF List?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:58:54 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Jonathan--I am doing an ethnography of the science fiction community in
the United States, including the fans and the publishers and writers.
I am also co-editing a collection of essays with a feminist topic, but
we haven't contacted all the potential scholars we would like involved,
so I can't get any more specific yet.

Feminist scholarship in sf seems really big now, and cyberpunk, but if
you are not using postmodern theory, I don't know what you would do with it.

By the way, I've never gotten funding, and I've done all my work on my
charge cards.  I don't know if I might have been funded, but I was too
busy doing the work to stop and fill out papers.  And my subjects always
had something strange and controversial in them to make them problematic.

I hope this helps.

Camille Bacon-Smith
English Department
Temple University

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 11:37:14 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <"21_Mar_95_12:18:02_GMT_#9725"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 21, 95 07:53:22 am
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 12:07:05 1995
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Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:08:14 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: SF List?
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:58:54 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Jonathan--I am doing an ethnography of the science fiction community in
the United States, including the fans and the publishers and writers.
I am also co-editing a collection of essays with a feminist topic, but
we haven't contacted all the potential scholars we would like involved,
so I can't get any more specific yet.

Feminist scholarship in sf seems really big now, and cyberpunk, but if
you are not using postmodern theory, I don't know what you would do with it.

By the way, I've never gotten funding, and I've done all my work on my
charge cards.  I don't know if I might have been funded, but I was too
busy doing the work to stop and fill out papers.  And my subjects always
had something strange and controversial in them to make them problematic.

I hope this helps.

Camille Bacon-Smith
English Department
Temple University

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 21 13:55:44 1995
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Date: 21 Mar 1995 13:54:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FEMINIST UTOPIA
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: FEMINIST UTOPIA

I posted the feminist utopia question on the Feminist SF list and here 
is a reply I got 
                                Sinya 
====================================================== 
  
I can't recall the author, but about 20 years ago I read a book called 
"Ecotopia" which wasn't exactly a feminist utopia, but it had feminist 
elements. 
  
  
  
Rebecca Roush 
[log in to unmask] 
  
  
  

From shal  Tue Mar 21 14:14:20 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:14:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
> say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
> to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
> academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
> writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
> human/machine interface. 

Yes, such as "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" and _Up the Walls of the 
World_ by James Tiptree, Jr. (and probably several other stories by her 
that I can't think of at the moment). She (Alice Sheldon) was an 
experimental psychologist (the discipline in which electrodes were 
first being implanted in the brains of rats, etc) so it makes sense that 
she would be ahead of the crowd in writing about such issues. What other 
examples were you thinking of?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:44:31 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:44:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF-Courier (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 01:47:06 +0200
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF-Courier

SF Courier, March 1995

(e-mail SF news bulletin by Sergey Berezhnoy,
translated into English by Boris Sidyuk)

--- AUTHORS -----------------------------

Eugeny Lukin has finished his novella THERE, BEYOND AKHERON.
Evidently, it'll be published in the YESLI magazine via
Andrey Chertkov [Eugeny Lukin, Volgograd].

Andrey Izmailov requested Boris Strugatsy's permission to
title his new thriller THE WHITE KNIGHT. It will be a futuristic
novel and will bear no relation to the world of Strugatsky brothers.
[Andrey Izmailov, Sankt Peterburg (SPb)].

Boris Shtern writes a new novel called ETHIOPEAN, a alternate
history. He plans to finish the novel by the end of this year.
[Boris Sidyuk, Boris Shtern, Kiev].

Sergey Lukyanenko writes sequel to his THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY
ISLANDS (work title - THE WARS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS). He also
continues writing his space opera STARS ARE COLD TOYS, an
alternate history novel with its cross-split at the end of the
X century [Sergey Lukyanenko, Alma-Ata].

Dalia Truskinovskaya is planning to finish her 80,000 words
novel-fantasy ROYAL BREED [Dalia Truskinovskaya, Riga].

Elena Khaetskaya, the author of THE SWORD AND RAINBOW published
by Severo-Zapad under her alias Madeline Simmons, signed an
agreement with new agent the Spectre Literary Agency to
manage her new novel THE CONQUERORS [200 magazine].

--- RIGHTS -----------------------------------

Sankt Peterburg Literary Agency SPECTRE (director Sergey Berezhnoy)
currently manages rights for Olga Larionova, Svyatoslav Loginov,
Georgy Martynov, Nikolay Romanetsky, Alexander Tyurin, Elena
Khaetskaya, Alexander Shchogolev, Boris Shtern, Dalia Truskinovskaya,
G.L.Oldy, Boris Ivanov, Yuri Shcherbatykh [200 magazine].

--- MAGAZINES -------------------------------------

Uralsky Sledopyt monthly magazine (Yekaterinburg) in its new issues
publishes Vasily Shchepetnev's novella TO FEED ANIMALS PROHIBITED
(#10'1994), Alexey Shchupov's novella COLD MALIOGONT (##1-2'1995),
Vladislav Krapivin's novel SUMMER WILL NOT END SOON (##3-5'1995),
Gennady Prashkevich's novella DEMON SOCRATUS (#7,1995). The editorial
board also is preparing to publish a new novel of Vasily Golovachev
and a new novella of Alexander Chumanov. They are also thinking on
publishing a debut novel of Svetlana Zorina. The magazine has
25,000 of paid circulation and is planning to raise it upto
30,000 in a few months [Sergey Kazantsev, Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg].

The fourth issue of 1995 of SPb magazine NEVA will be completely
fulfilled with SF and Fantasy. They are planning to publish there
Natalia Galkina's novella NIGHT MADMEN, Andrey Stolyarov's novellette
FULL MOON TIME, N.Gaekho's story THE STONE CIRCLE, debut novella
of N.Bizin and A.Ivanov BLIND SWALLOW and debut story of O.Gronsky
SLY BATHYSCAPHE. Also planned to publish two short stories of
Philip K.Dick [Vladimir Fadeyev, SPb].

--- BOOKS ------------------------------------------

In December 1994 KRANG Publishers of Kiev issued a debut fantasy novel
of Marina and Sergey Dyachenko THE DOOR-KEEPER. The book pretends
to be the best SF&F book of the 1994 years published in the Ukraine.
[Boris Sidyuk, Kiev].

Alter-Press will publish a huge volume of Boris Shtern's works
in their book line which may be translated as SCIENCE FICTION
AND FANTASY HALL OF FAME. The agreement was signed via Boris
Sidyuk. During the 1994 Eurocon in Timisoara, Romania Boris
Shtern got the main Eurocon Award as the best European SF
writer of the year. He also has an offer to publish 2 or 3
books from FLOKS publishers of Nyzhniy Novgorod. [Boris Sidyuk,
Boris Shtern, Kiev].

A new collection of Sergey Lukyanenko' works called
THE LORD FROM THE PLANET EARTH was published in Alma-Ata by
LIA NOMAD and includes his novels THE PRINCESS IS ABOUT
TO DIE, THE PLANET WHICH DOESN'T EXIST and THE KNIGHTS OF
THE FORTY ISLANDS and 5 short stories [Vladimir Vasilyev, Moscow].

Algorythm, Ltd (Moscow) bought the rights to publish a collection
called LEOPARD FROM THE MOUNT KILIMANJARO. Except her classic
SF novel the book is called because of there will also be
her novel CHACRE OF CENTAUR and short stories. Another collection
of her will be published by PARALLEL of Nyzhniy Novgorod
[200 magazine].

Argus publishers of Moscow is planning to issue (in their
book line CHRONOS) a book of Lev Vershinin (the 1994 best Ukrainian
new SF writer). The book will include novel THE TWO AT THE FOOT OF
ETERNITY, novella THE FIRST YEAR OF THE REPIBLIC and short stories.
Argus is also planning to publish two books of Sergey Lukyanenko.
[Oleg Pulya, Moscow]

Tezis publishers issued two volumes of Semen Slepynin and a
book of John Brunner. They are also going to publish the second
volume of Gennady Prashkevich and two collections of Alexander
Bushkov [Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg]

POLYARIS publishers of Riga, Latvia is starting issuing a book
line of Rusiian language authors. The first book will be Sergey
Snegov's novel DICTATOR [Andrey Novikov, Riga]

ALEXANDRIA and RUSICH companies continue issuing their joined
SF book line THE TREASURE-HOUSE OF COOL SF AND ADVENTURES. In the
near future they will issue three books of David Brin, a book
of James Hogan and a book of Dave Volverton.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 03:39:56 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:27:54 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: SF evolution in the XUSSR
Lines: 16

THE EVOLUTION
of Russian-language Science Fiction.

30s-50s. New inventions and bastard capitalist spies.
60s. Communist Utopias.
70s. Social models.
80-86. Historic SF, the beginning of the civilization, Atlantida.
87-91. Anti-Utopias.
92. Dark worlds, thrillers.
93. fantasy-related SF.
94. alternate histories.
95 (prognosis). Horros SF, catastrophes, adventurers.
96 (prognosis). Superheros.

Compiled by Boris SIdyuk
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 03:42:04 1995
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          Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:00:21 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:00:20 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Russian-language fantasy
Lines: 14

Currently, the most popular genre in the XUSSR is CLASSIC FANTASY.
i.e. Tolkien and alike. On the local segment of FidoNet there is
even a special echo SU.TOLKIEN. The moderator of the echo is
Sergey Qkovlew at 2:5020/122. The Tolkiens influence on the current
Russian-language fantasy is so hard that 9 of 10 authors try to
write like Tolkien. Even more. Nik Perumov wrote a novel based on
the Tolkien's world which was published in Sankt Peterburg last year
and was #1 in the bestsellers list. Another great influence is
Roger Zelazny's Amber series. Cyberpunk is not so popular here.
Nevertheless, on Fido echo SU.SF&F.FANDOM Russian cyberpunks
usurped power :)

Boris Sidyuk
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 04:25:16 1995
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          Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:30 +0000
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thomas Burnett Swann
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:28 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Bob Roehm" at Mar 21, 95 12:57:39 pm
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In the last mail Bob Roehm said:
> 
> Office of Collection Management
> Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville
> 
> Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
> into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
> the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
> that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
> Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.
> 
> tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
> libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
> libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
> the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
> New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.
> 
> If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
> magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
> them, we'd certainly appreciate it.
> 
> Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
> of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
> may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
> I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
> bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.
> 
As far as I can tell, I can't be of much help as the Foundation collection
doesn't have much in the way of the kind of poetry resources which you have
in mind, and I would imagine most of the material to be searched would be
in the US, but I am interested in this project and if there is anything I
can do . . .

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:49:06 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:49:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Thomas Burnett Swann (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting of message from Bob Roehm by Colleen.

Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95  08:58:37 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Thomas Burnett Swann


Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.

I'm helping Matt with this project, and since he does not have Internet access
I'm passing along this request. Swann's fiction and non-fiction books are, as
far as we can tell, thoroughly documented. However, Swann was a prolific poet
in the 50s and early 60s and a great many of these poems have yet to be
tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.

If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
them, we'd certainly appreciate it.

Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.

Thanks to anyonewho might be willing to help or who has an interest in the
finished book.

Bob

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 03:39:56 1995
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          Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:27:55 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:27:54 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: SF evolution in the XUSSR
Lines: 16

THE EVOLUTION
of Russian-language Science Fiction.

30s-50s. New inventions and bastard capitalist spies.
60s. Communist Utopias.
70s. Social models.
80-86. Historic SF, the beginning of the civilization, Atlantida.
87-91. Anti-Utopias.
92. Dark worlds, thrillers.
93. fantasy-related SF.
94. alternate histories.
95 (prognosis). Horros SF, catastrophes, adventurers.
96 (prognosis). Superheros.

Compiled by Boris SIdyuk
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 03:42:04 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:00:20 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Russian-language fantasy
Lines: 14

Currently, the most popular genre in the XUSSR is CLASSIC FANTASY.
i.e. Tolkien and alike. On the local segment of FidoNet there is
even a special echo SU.TOLKIEN. The moderator of the echo is
Sergey Qkovlew at 2:5020/122. The Tolkiens influence on the current
Russian-language fantasy is so hard that 9 of 10 authors try to
write like Tolkien. Even more. Nik Perumov wrote a novel based on
the Tolkien's world which was published in Sankt Peterburg last year
and was #1 in the bestsellers list. Another great influence is
Roger Zelazny's Amber series. Cyberpunk is not so popular here.
Nevertheless, on Fido echo SU.SF&F.FANDOM Russian cyberpunks
usurped power :)

Boris Sidyuk
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 04:25:16 1995
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          Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:30 +0000
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thomas Burnett Swann
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:28 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Bob Roehm" at Mar 21, 95 12:57:39 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In the last mail Bob Roehm said:
> 
> Office of Collection Management
> Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville
> 
> Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
> into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
> the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
> that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
> Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.
> 
> tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
> libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
> libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
> the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
> New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.
> 
> If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
> magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
> them, we'd certainly appreciate it.
> 
> Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
> of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
> may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
> I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
> bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.
> 
As far as I can tell, I can't be of much help as the Foundation collection
doesn't have much in the way of the kind of poetry resources which you have
in mind, and I would imagine most of the material to be searched would be
in the US, but I am interested in this project and if there is anything I
can do . . .

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:49:06 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA126919; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:49:06 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:49:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Thomas Burnett Swann (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting of message from Bob Roehm by Colleen.

Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95  08:58:37 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Thomas Burnett Swann


Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.

I'm helping Matt with this project, and since he does not have Internet access
I'm passing along this request. Swann's fiction and non-fiction books are, as
far as we can tell, thoroughly documented. However, Swann was a prolific poet
in the 50s and early 60s and a great many of these poems have yet to be
tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.

If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
them, we'd certainly appreciate it.

Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.

Thanks to anyonewho might be willing to help or who has an interest in the
finished book.

Bob

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715

From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:55:21 1995
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          id AA150212; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list? 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message by Andy Sawyer by Colleen

From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)

In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 07:36:22 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA38189; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FOR LC STAFF SUBSCRIBERS ONLY
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

There has been a continuing problem with SF-LIT sending out messages; it 
is choking on some CA-Email address, or possible several.  Could you 
please check the proper form of your name in CA-Email and let me know if 
it is 20 characters or longer (this includes spaces between names).  To 
find out your proper name, go to CA-Email (you probably are now in it) 
and at the home position, type:
	USER [Your name] 
and enter your name, without brackets, in that spot.  For example, I 
would be:
	USER Colleen Stumbaugh
When done, press enter and wait.  You should see your name at the top of 
the CA-Email user list.  Your proper name will be after "Detail for user" 
if you are looking at your entry.  Please let me know at [log in to unmask] if 
you name is a long one.  
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 04:25:16 1995
Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA21694; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:25:16 -0500
Received: from uxa.liv.ac.uk by mail.liv.ac.uk with SMTP (PP);
          Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:30 +0000
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thomas Burnett Swann
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:23:28 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Bob Roehm" at Mar 21, 95 12:57:39 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1893      

In the last mail Bob Roehm said:
> 
> Office of Collection Management
> Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville
> 
> Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
> into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
> the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
> that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
> Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.
> 
> tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
> libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
> libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
> the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
> New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.
> 
> If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
> magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
> them, we'd certainly appreciate it.
> 
> Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
> of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
> may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
> I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
> bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.
> 
As far as I can tell, I can't be of much help as the Foundation collection
doesn't have much in the way of the kind of poetry resources which you have
in mind, and I would imagine most of the material to be searched would be
in the US, but I am interested in this project and if there is anything I
can do . . .

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:49:06 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA126919; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:49:06 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:49:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Thomas Burnett Swann (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting of message from Bob Roehm by Colleen.

Date:         Tue, 21 Mar 95  08:58:37 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Thomas Burnett Swann


Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

Small press publisher Matthew Hargreaves has begun a project to bring back
into print the works of fantasy author Thomas Burnett Swann, beginning with
the Minotaur trilogy to be issued in a deluxe edition this summer. As part of
that volume, Matt is updating and expanding the bibliography compiled by
Robert Collins in his 1979 booklet.

I'm helping Matt with this project, and since he does not have Internet access
I'm passing along this request. Swann's fiction and non-fiction books are, as
far as we can tell, thoroughly documented. However, Swann was a prolific poet
in the 50s and early 60s and a great many of these poems have yet to be
tracked down in their original publications. We need people at various
libraries who are willing to check journals for possible publications, as most
libraries will not let bound journal volumes go out on interlibrary loan. At
the present, some of the titles that need to be searched are: Poetry Digest,
New Athenaeum, Flame, Cornucopia, Scimitar and Song, and Wanderlust.

If you have easy access to a library which has holdings in any of these
magazines in the period roughly 1952-1965 and are willing to page through
them, we'd certainly appreciate it.

Certain fanzine articles of the early seventies also need to be located. And
of course if anyone has personal correspondence, photos, or other items that
may be of interest, Matt would like to hear about it. Just let me know and
I'll pass along the information. And if anyone would like a draft of the
bibliography thus far, I'll relay that request as well.

Thanks to anyonewho might be willing to help or who has an interest in the
finished book.

Bob

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715

From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:55:21 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA150212; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list? 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message by Andy Sawyer by Colleen

From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)

In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 07:36:22 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA38189; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FOR LC STAFF SUBSCRIBERS ONLY
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

There has been a continuing problem with SF-LIT sending out messages; it 
is choking on some CA-Email address, or possible several.  Could you 
please check the proper form of your name in CA-Email and let me know if 
it is 20 characters or longer (this includes spaces between names).  To 
find out your proper name, go to CA-Email (you probably are now in it) 
and at the home position, type:
	USER [Your name] 
and enter your name, without brackets, in that spot.  For example, I 
would be:
	USER Colleen Stumbaugh
When done, press enter and wait.  You should see your name at the top of 
the CA-Email user list.  Your proper name will be after "Detail for user" 
if you are looking at your entry.  Please let me know at [log in to unmask] if 
you name is a long one.  
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]

From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 06:57:12 1995
Received: from bham.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA12850; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:57:12 -0500
Via: bham.ac.uk; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0000
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:51:17 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"22_Mar_95_11:51:17_GMT_#0144"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:09:21 -0500

As a kind of postscript to my last message I thought I might point out that the
area of cyberpunk that interests me is the way it can be read as the latest in
a continual cross-fertilisation of concepts and terms from science fiction and
speculative writing into more mainstream discourses. An example of this might b
e the way the moon race was written and conceptualised by earlier sf writers. S
o what was a marginal SF genre, 'cyberpunk' has now entered mainstream discours
e and the scientists are now desperately trying to catch up with the technology
 constructed in Gibson's novels. This isn't an original theory but I can't actu
ally remember where I saw it. Can anyone help? Comments? Can anyone tell me how
 to quote other mailings in my replies?
Jonathan Laidlow, postgrad,dept of English, University of Birmingham

From cstu  Wed Mar 22 06:55:21 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA150212; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:55:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list? 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting of message by Andy Sawyer by Colleen

From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:34:54 +0000 (GMT)

In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As this is a new list and I haven't yet received any mail I just what to ask
> what sort of subjects we're going to be discussing. I've just proposed a PhD
> subject on Science fiction but because we have no specialists in the field
> here at the University of Birmingham there is a feeling amongst staff that
> I would not get funded. But I'm hoping that this list can give me a feel of the
> work that is going on in the field: what are people working on? Cyberpunk is
> the hot academic SF topic at the moment but as far as I can tell it is usually
> cited to exemplify certain aspects of postmodernism. The recent books on the
> subject (McCaffrey, Bukatman) tend to confirm this (to me). What do other
> people feel?
> Jonathan Laidlow
> 
I have a sneaking suspicion that we will shortly have said all there is to 
say on cyberpunk as postmodernism. It would be productive, perhaps, to get
to cyberpunk as part of the wider history of sf. I quite often have 
academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
human/machine interface. There is also a strong strand of ecological sf
(cf Brin's EARTH, aspects of Kim Stanley Robinson's "mars" trilogy which 
I think is undervalued at the moment. And sf as utopian/dystopian fiction,
particularly but not exclusively from a feminist perspective, seems a
very current topic.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From cstu  Wed Mar 22 07:36:22 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA38189; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FOR LC STAFF SUBSCRIBERS ONLY
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

There has been a continuing problem with SF-LIT sending out messages; it 
is choking on some CA-Email address, or possible several.  Could you 
please check the proper form of your name in CA-Email and let me know if 
it is 20 characters or longer (this includes spaces between names).  To 
find out your proper name, go to CA-Email (you probably are now in it) 
and at the home position, type:
	USER [Your name] 
and enter your name, without brackets, in that spot.  For example, I 
would be:
	USER Colleen Stumbaugh
When done, press enter and wait.  You should see your name at the top of 
the CA-Email user list.  Your proper name will be after "Detail for user" 
if you are looking at your entry.  Please let me know at [log in to unmask] if 
you name is a long one.  
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]

From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 06:57:12 1995
Received: from bham.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA12850; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:57:12 -0500
Via: bham.ac.uk; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0000
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:51:17 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"22_Mar_95_11:51:17_GMT_#0144"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:09:21 -0500

As a kind of postscript to my last message I thought I might point out that the
area of cyberpunk that interests me is the way it can be read as the latest in
a continual cross-fertilisation of concepts and terms from science fiction and
speculative writing into more mainstream discourses. An example of this might b
e the way the moon race was written and conceptualised by earlier sf writers. S
o what was a marginal SF genre, 'cyberpunk' has now entered mainstream discours
e and the scientists are now desperately trying to catch up with the technology
 constructed in Gibson's novels. This isn't an original theory but I can't actu
ally remember where I saw it. Can anyone help? Comments? Can anyone tell me how
 to quote other mailings in my replies?
Jonathan Laidlow, postgrad,dept of English, University of Birmingham
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 09:12:25 1995
Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA73348; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:12:25 -0500
Received: from dior (dior.ics.muni.cz) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz with SMTP id AA26973
  (5.67a8/IDA-1.4.4 for <[log in to unmask]>); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:08:23 +0100
Received: by dior id AA11019
  (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for [log in to unmask]); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:08:09 +0100
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:08:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Lida Osecka <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FEMINIST UTOPIA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.90.950322150255.10724B-100000@dior>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

hi,

I don't know the book is available in English, but a Czech autor Vladimir 
Paral [male] wrote 'The country of females' , Zeme zen in czech language.

best wishes,

Lida from Morava
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 09:19:18 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sandra Kisner" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA

     I only joined this list yesterday; I hope this posting doesn't
turn out to be redundant.  There is a book published in 1994 by the
Syracuse University Press called _Utopian and Science Fiction by
Women: Worlds of Difference_, edited by Jane L. Donawerth and Carol
A. Kolmerten.  It contains a number of essays, some on individual
authors, and a bibliography.

Sandra Kisner
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 22 07:36:22 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FOR LC STAFF SUBSCRIBERS ONLY
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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There has been a continuing problem with SF-LIT sending out messages; it 
is choking on some CA-Email address, or possible several.  Could you 
please check the proper form of your name in CA-Email and let me know if 
it is 20 characters or longer (this includes spaces between names).  To 
find out your proper name, go to CA-Email (you probably are now in it) 
and at the home position, type:
	USER [Your name] 
and enter your name, without brackets, in that spot.  For example, I 
would be:
	USER Colleen Stumbaugh
When done, press enter and wait.  You should see your name at the top of 
the CA-Email user list.  Your proper name will be after "Detail for user" 
if you are looking at your entry.  Please let me know at [log in to unmask] if 
you name is a long one.  
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]

From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 06:57:12 1995
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Via: bham.ac.uk; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0000
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:51:17 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"22_Mar_95_11:51:17_GMT_#0144"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:09:21 -0500

As a kind of postscript to my last message I thought I might point out that the
area of cyberpunk that interests me is the way it can be read as the latest in
a continual cross-fertilisation of concepts and terms from science fiction and
speculative writing into more mainstream discourses. An example of this might b
e the way the moon race was written and conceptualised by earlier sf writers. S
o what was a marginal SF genre, 'cyberpunk' has now entered mainstream discours
e and the scientists are now desperately trying to catch up with the technology
 constructed in Gibson's novels. This isn't an original theory but I can't actu
ally remember where I saw it. Can anyone help? Comments? Can anyone tell me how
 to quote other mailings in my replies?
Jonathan Laidlow, postgrad,dept of English, University of Birmingham
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 09:12:25 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:08:09 +0100 (MET)
From: Lida Osecka <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FEMINIST UTOPIA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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hi,

I don't know the book is available in English, but a Czech autor Vladimir 
Paral [male] wrote 'The country of females' , Zeme zen in czech language.

best wishes,

Lida from Morava
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 09:19:18 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Sandra Kisner" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA

     I only joined this list yesterday; I hope this posting doesn't
turn out to be redundant.  There is a book published in 1994 by the
Syracuse University Press called _Utopian and Science Fiction by
Women: Worlds of Difference_, edited by Jane L. Donawerth and Carol
A. Kolmerten.  It contains a number of essays, some on individual
authors, and a bibliography.

Sandra Kisner
[log in to unmask]

From shal  Wed Mar 22 10:06:41 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:06:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FEMINIST UTOPIA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, SINYA B SCHAEFFER wrote:

> I posted the feminist utopia question on the Feminist SF list and here 
> is a reply I got 
>                                 Sinya 
> ====================================================== 
> I can't recall the author, but about 20 years ago I read a book called 
> "Ecotopia" which wasn't exactly a feminist utopia, but it had feminist 
> elements. 
>   
> Rebecca Roush    [log in to unmask] 

Ecotopia is by Ernest Callenbach   - Stephanie

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 22 13:51:15 1995
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From: Ruth Ballam <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:38:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
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Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

On the subject of Cyberpunk. If you have www access you might want to check out 
some of the the articles on cyberfeminism in the geekgirl site:

"www.next.com.au/spyfood/geekgirl/index.html"


-------------------------------------------
[log in to unmask]
Ruth Ballam,
Computing Service,
University of Plymouth,
Earl Richard's Road North,
Exeter,  Devon,  EX4 4BP,  UK  
Tel: (01392) 475 057
-------------------------------------------

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 07:07:39 1995
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Date: 23 Mar 1995 07:07:07 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FEMINIST UTOPIA, FORWARDED
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: FEMINIST UTOPIA, FORWARDED

From:         Christina Nightwind Survivor <[log in to unmask] 
Subject:      Re: FEMINIST UTOPIAS (FWD2) 
Comments: To: [log in to unmask] 
To:           Multiple recipients of list STWTTF-L <[log in to unmask] 
  
_Daughters of a Coral Dawn_  Katherine V. Forrest  ISBN:0-93004-50-9 
(Naiad Press so is more lesbian-feminist type utopia-ish) 
  
and maybe, possibly _Isis Rising_ and _Return to Isis_ by Jean Stewart 
ISBN: o-9628938-9-9  and 0-9628938-6-2  rising Tide Press, more 
lesbian-feminist & I haven't read them for a while but think they migh 
utopia-focused. 
  
_A Door Into Ocean_ by Joan Slonczewski ISBN 0-380-70150-2 (AVON) 
really neat book, twin worlds, one of which is populated by purple 
fish-women who live in complete harmony with the world - the other 
world/moon (each considers the other to be the moon) is autocratic sex 
ect...  there's a sequel but I don't know the title 
  
  
and I read something a long time ago that may have been called Womanla 
something that fits utopia fiction to a T 
  
I'm not sure if _The Fifth Sacred Thing_ by Starhawk would count as a 
utopia or not...anybody whose read it got an opinion?  (I just knew af 
read it that I wanted to go live there) 
  
_Woman on the Edge of Time_ was really great too. 
  
christina 
Christina Nightwind Survivor              [log in to unmask] 

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 09:42:30 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:41:00 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>On the subject of Cyberpunk. If you have www access you might want to check 
out 
>some of the the articles on cyberfeminism in the geekgirl site:
>
>"www.next.com.au/spyfood/geekgirl/index.html"
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>[log in to unmask]
>Ruth Ballam,
>Computing Service,
>University of Plymouth,
>Earl Richard's Road North,
>Exeter,  Devon,  EX4 4BP,  UK  
>Tel: (01392) 475 057
>-------------------------------------------
>
FYI:
I had to use the address 
        httl://www.next.com.au:80
and then change directories once into the site.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 10:57:10 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF List?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:54:09 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Stephanie A. Hall" at Mar 22, 95 06:42:02 am
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In the last mail Stephanie A. Hall said:
> 
> On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, such as "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" and _Up the Walls of the 
> World_ by James Tiptree, Jr. (and probably several other stories by her 
> that I can't think of at the moment). She (Alice Sheldon) was an 
> experimental psychologist (the discipline in which electrodes were 
> first being implanted in the brains of rats, etc) so it makes sense that 
> she would be ahead of the crowd in writing about such issues. What other 
> examples were you thinking of?
> 
I was thinking specifically of three stories mentioned in Paul Carter's 
THE CREATION OF TOMORROW which I recently recommended to someone working
on the image of the Body in SF. In lester del Rey's "Reincarnate" (1940)
a man is injured and has his brain removed to a robot body and has to come
to terms with mechanical senses. The story is remarkable chiefly but
importantly for what it *assumes* is normal behaviour - you have to know the
ending for this! In CL Moore's "No Woman Born" (1944) a dancer is given a 
robot body and its creator is worried about whether he has created a
Frankenstein monster. In Damon Knight's "Masks" (I can't remember the date,
but I think some time in the sixties) the theme in the latter story of
a consciousness accepting the "incorruptable" machine-body is intensified
as the hero's reaction to the flesh around him reaches a crescendo of
disgust. All three stories - they were mentioned by Carter to make this
point - deal with the question of how far the presence of a new mechanical
body modifies consciousness: just what the modern interest in cyberpunk
and cyborgs is all about.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

> 


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 12:59:27 1995
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Resent-Date:  Thu, 23 Mar 95 12:39:58 EST
Resent-From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Resent-To: "Lib.Cong. Literary SF list" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:28:01 EST
From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      review mat'ls welcome
To: [log in to unmask]

To all SF-LIT subscribers:

I'm pleased to announce the existence of a new organization called
CLF, Council for the Literature of the Fantastic, which is based at
the University of Rhode Island and whose purpose is to promote the
writing and marketing of "the literary fantastic," i.e., fiction
including non-realistic elements that is of high *literary* quality.

A fuller description follows.  It is written as a request for
review materials from interested publishers who might be subscribers
to one of the two lists to which it was posted.  I hope that some
of the issues I raise will merit discussion by this group and that
among you I might find professionals willing to become contributors
to our forthcoming "CLF Newsletter," which will include articles,
reviews, interviews, and market news--and will have an online as
well as a hardcopy presence.
                                Daniel Pearlman
                                CLF Coordinator
                                [log in to unmask]
----------------------------Original message----------------------------

CLF: THE COUNCIL FOR THE LITERATURE OF THE FANTASTIC

Dear Publisher:

A new literary organization has come into being, the Council for the Literature
of the Fantastic.  Our purpose is to promote the "fantastic" in a world where
literary values tend overwhelmingly to favor "realism."  At the same time, this
is an invitation to interested publishers to send us items for review in the
CLF Newsletter,the first issue of which is scheduled for May of this year.By no
means opposed to realism,we offer our services to publishers of eclectic tastes
who *include* non-realistic works among the sorts of fiction they print,as well
as to publishers who deal exclusively in fiction of a fantastic nature.

The literary "Best of" annuals like the Pushcart series or the O'Henry
short-story volumes claim to scour the field for the "best," but how is it that
American fiction belonging to the *nonrealistic* tradition is virtually never
represented in these prestigious yearlies?  Is it literary snobbism that
prevents even one story from a genre magazine such as Fantasy & Science Fiction
from inclusion--despite the fact that the genre magazines print the largest
not enough of an explanation since the fantastic (i.e., non-realistic) fiction
that occasionally appears in *literary* magazines and journals, some of them
quite prestigious, is almost never selected either.

Admittedly, though, it is rather difficult even to *find* non-realistic fiction
published these days by self-consciously literary presses.  There is a tacit
ideology--prejudice, to speak bluntly--at work here, the sense that the
fantastic is somehow illegitimate and has fled to the societal margins under
the cavalry charge of no-nonsense realism.Or else there is the obverse fear--a
fear of the loss of all literary value under the media barrage of fifth-rate
sci-fi, horror, and the like.  The upshot is that the literary prestige-makers
in this country tend to take seriously only products of so-called "realism,"
dismissing the "fantastic" as an odor arising from the bog of Popular Culture.
The big losers in all this are the intelligent general *readers*, who have been
brainwashed for nearly a century by market forces that continue to impoverish
our literature--and, of course, the seriously literary *writers* among us who
employ the fantastic, not for purposes of escapism, but as their principal mode
of expression of imaginative truth.

It is to correct this disorder that I, with the help of many friends here
and in England, have started CLF, the Council for the Literature of the
Fantastic, whose home base is the University of Rhode Island.  A significant
proportion of fantastic literature has undeservedly suffered for far too long
the bad rap of providing mere escapism.  CLF will fight back by providing major
services to publishers of any size, to editors, writers, and readers, to
literary agents and to educators, and to anyone else who has a stake in LF, the
*literature* of the fantastic.By employing the resources of a large university
and by enlisting the aid of sympathetic "real-world" pros, CLF will promote
those books, magazines, and writers that, in our best judgment, deserve wider
recognition than they currently enjoy.

THE CLF NEWSLETTER:  One prong of our attack will be a newsletter--in both a
hardcopy and an Internet edition.  Our growing list of Contributing Editors
includes Mark Amerika, Don D'ammassa, and Jeff Vandermeer.  The newsletter will
provide specific services to those of us with a stake in LF, such as (1)
responsible, professional reviews--both in-house and solicited--of journals,
magazines, and presses that print LF (with an emphasis on the financially more
limited *small* presses); (2) interviews with, and articles by, LF publishers,
in the field of LF; and (4) other valuable material, much of which will
eventually be suggested by our readers.

CLF AS CLEARING-HOUSE:  Part of the mission of CLF will be to act as a central
clearing-house for LF, literally to become a *distribution center for
English-language publications* that promote high literary standards for LF.
Supporting the sales efforts of (mostly) marginal publishers, we will advertise
and distribute copies of their wares to anyone interested--even offer specially
priced roundups of LF-related zines and books.

If you think that CLF can be of benefit to you, please send us *two copies*
of each book or magazine you would like us to review.  Address materials,
marking them as "for CLF review," to Daniel Pearlman, Department of English,
University of Rhode Island, Kingston, RI 02881.  If you would like to be on our
CLF mailing list, you may e-mail me at [log in to unmask] or write me at the
above-mentioned address.  Please email me for further information.

                              Daniel Pearlman
                              CLF Coordinator

                CLF /Pearlman  {PAGE|2}

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 12:59:27 1995
Received: from URIACC.URI.EDU by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA126168; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:59:27 -0500
Resent-Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Received: from URIACC.URI.EDU by URIACC.URI.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)
   with BSMTP id 3403; Thu, 23 Mar 95 12:59:04 EST
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Resent-Date:  Thu, 23 Mar 95 12:39:58 EST
Resent-From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Resent-To: "Lib.Cong. Literary SF list" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:28:01 EST
From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      review mat'ls welcome
To: [log in to unmask]

To all SF-LIT subscribers:

I'm pleased to announce the existence of a new organization called
CLF, Council for the Literature of the Fantastic, which is based at
the University of Rhode Island and whose purpose is to promote the
writing and marketing of "the literary fantastic," i.e., fiction
including non-realistic elements that is of high *literary* quality.

A fuller description follows.  It is written as a request for
review materials from interested publishers who might be subscribers
to one of the two lists to which it was posted.  I hope that some
of the issues I raise will merit discussion by this group and that
among you I might find professionals willing to become contributors
to our forthcoming "CLF Newsletter," which will include articles,
reviews, interviews, and market news--and will have an online as
well as a hardcopy presence.
                                Daniel Pearlman
                                CLF Coordinator
                                [log in to unmask]
----------------------------Original message----------------------------

CLF: THE COUNCIL FOR THE LITERATURE OF THE FANTASTIC

Dear Publisher:

A new literary organization has come into being, the Council for the Literature
of the Fantastic.  Our purpose is to promote the "fantastic" in a world where
literary values tend overwhelmingly to favor "realism."  At the same time, this
is an invitation to interested publishers to send us items for review in the
CLF Newsletter,the first issue of which is scheduled for May of this year.By no
means opposed to realism,we offer our services to publishers of eclectic tastes
who *include* non-realistic works among the sorts of fiction they print,as well
as to publishers who deal exclusively in fiction of a fantastic nature.

The literary "Best of" annuals like the Pushcart series or the O'Henry
short-story volumes claim to scour the field for the "best," but how is it that
American fiction belonging to the *nonrealistic* tradition is virtually never
represented in these prestigious yearlies?  Is it literary snobbism that
prevents even one story from a genre magazine such as Fantasy & Science Fiction
from inclusion--despite the fact that the genre magazines print the largest
not enough of an explanation since the fantastic (i.e., non-realistic) fiction
that occasionally appears in *literary* magazines and journals, some of them
quite prestigious, is almost never selected either.

Admittedly, though, it is rather difficult even to *find* non-realistic fiction
published these days by self-consciously literary presses.  There is a tacit
ideology--prejudice, to speak bluntly--at work here, the sense that the
fantastic is somehow illegitimate and has fled to the societal margins under
the cavalry charge of no-nonsense realism.Or else there is the obverse fear--a
fear of the loss of all literary value under the media barrage of fifth-rate
sci-fi, horror, and the like.  The upshot is that the literary prestige-makers
in this country tend to take seriously only products of so-called "realism,"
dismissing the "fantastic" as an odor arising from the bog of Popular Culture.
The big losers in all this are the intelligent general *readers*, who have been
brainwashed for nearly a century by market forces that continue to impoverish
our literature--and, of course, the seriously literary *writers* among us who
employ the fantastic, not for purposes of escapism, but as their principal mode
of expression of imaginative truth.

It is to correct this disorder that I, with the help of many friends here
and in England, have started CLF, the Council for the Literature of the
Fantastic, whose home base is the University of Rhode Island.  A significant
proportion of fantastic literature has undeservedly suffered for far too long
the bad rap of providing mere escapism.  CLF will fight back by providing major
services to publishers of any size, to editors, writers, and readers, to
literary agents and to educators, and to anyone else who has a stake in LF, the
*literature* of the fantastic.By employing the resources of a large university
and by enlisting the aid of sympathetic "real-world" pros, CLF will promote
those books, magazines, and writers that, in our best judgment, deserve wider
recognition than they currently enjoy.

THE CLF NEWSLETTER:  One prong of our attack will be a newsletter--in both a
hardcopy and an Internet edition.  Our growing list of Contributing Editors
includes Mark Amerika, Don D'ammassa, and Jeff Vandermeer.  The newsletter will
provide specific services to those of us with a stake in LF, such as (1)
responsible, professional reviews--both in-house and solicited--of journals,
magazines, and presses that print LF (with an emphasis on the financially more
limited *small* presses); (2) interviews with, and articles by, LF publishers,
in the field of LF; and (4) other valuable material, much of which will
eventually be suggested by our readers.

CLF AS CLEARING-HOUSE:  Part of the mission of CLF will be to act as a central
clearing-house for LF, literally to become a *distribution center for
English-language publications* that promote high literary standards for LF.
Supporting the sales efforts of (mostly) marginal publishers, we will advertise
and distribute copies of their wares to anyone interested--even offer specially
priced roundups of LF-related zines and books.

If you think that CLF can be of benefit to you, please send us *two copies*
of each book or magazine you would like us to review.  Address materials,
marking them as "for CLF review," to Daniel Pearlman, Department of English,
University of Rhode Island, Kingston, RI 02881.  If you would like to be on our
CLF mailing list, you may e-mail me at [log in to unmask] or write me at the
above-mentioned address.  Please email me for further information.

                              Daniel Pearlman
                              CLF Coordinator

                CLF /Pearlman  {PAGE|2}
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 13:07:49 1995
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	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA126311979; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:06:19 -0500
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:06:19 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List?

Andy sawyer said:  [ [log in to unmask]]

>I quite often have 
>academics coming to me about cyberpunk who aren't fully aware that sf 
>writers in the 40s, 50s and earlier were in their own way exploring the
>human/machine interface.

You can make that the 1920's. Look at E.M. Forster's The_Machine_Stops,
Harcourt, Brace and Company, Inc., 1928. Also reprinted in the
Treasury_of_Science
_Fiction_Classics, Harold W. Kuebler, Ed., Hanover House, Garden City, 
New York, 1954. I have seen it reprinted elsewhere also, but these are the
citations I have in hand.

This work is an early exploration of the man-machine interface gone
disastrously
wrong. It is one of my all-time favorites story on this theme.

     Gary


Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 15:01:16 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:02:03 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Stand on Zanzibar

I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
anybody read it, what did they think, 
is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?

[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 15:01:16 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:02:03 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Stand on Zanzibar

I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
anybody read it, what did they think, 
is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?

[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 15:04:02 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:04:33 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: SF List? -Reply


Gary L. Swaty writes on 3/23:
>You can make that the 1920's. Look at E.M. Forster's The_Machine_Stops,
>Harcourt, Brace and Company, Inc., 1928.

>This work is an early exploration of the man-machine interface gone
>disastrously wrong. It is one of my all-time favorites story on this theme.

I think I may have read this - what's the basic plotline?

[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Thu Mar 23 18:58:05 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:58:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: review mat'ls welcome
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

To those of you receiving this message twice, I apologize, but LISTPROC 
interupted delivery so many did not get this.  Dan, I hope you finally 
get to see this. :-)

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


Date:         Fri, 17 Feb 95 13:28:01 EST
From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      review mat'ls welcome

To all SF-LIT subscribers:

I'm pleased to announce the existence of a new organization called
CLF, Council for the Literature of the Fantastic, which is based at
the University of Rhode Island and whose purpose is to promote the
writing and marketing of "the literary fantastic," i.e., fiction
including non-realistic elements that is of high *literary* quality.

A fuller description follows.  It is written as a request for
review materials from interested publishers who might be subscribers
to one of the two lists to which it was posted.  I hope that some
of the issues I raise will merit discussion by this group and that
among you I might find professionals willing to become contributors
to our forthcoming "CLF Newsletter," which will include articles,
reviews, interviews, and market news--and will have an online as
well as a hardcopy presence.
                                Daniel Pearlman
                                CLF Coordinator
                                [log in to unmask]
----------------------------Original message----------------------------

CLF: THE COUNCIL FOR THE LITERATURE OF THE FANTASTIC

Dear Publisher:

A new literary organization has come into being, the Council for the Literature
of the Fantastic.  Our purpose is to promote the "fantastic" in a world where
literary values tend overwhelmingly to favor "realism."  At the same time, this
is an invitation to interested publishers to send us items for review in the
CLF Newsletter,the first issue of which is scheduled for May of this year.By no
means opposed to realism,we offer our services to publishers of eclectic tastes
who *include* non-realistic works among the sorts of fiction they print,as well
as to publishers who deal exclusively in fiction of a fantastic nature.

The literary "Best of" annuals like the Pushcart series or the O'Henry
short-story volumes claim to scour the field for the "best," but how is it that
American fiction belonging to the *nonrealistic* tradition is virtually never
represented in these prestigious yearlies?  Is it literary snobbism that
prevents even one story from a genre magazine such as Fantasy & Science Fiction
from inclusion--despite the fact that the genre magazines print the largest
not enough of an explanation since the fantastic (i.e., non-realistic) fiction
that occasionally appears in *literary* magazines and journals, some of them
quite prestigious, is almost never selected either.

Admittedly, though, it is rather difficult even to *find* non-realistic fiction
published these days by self-consciously literary presses.  There is a tacit
ideology--prejudice, to speak bluntly--at work here, the sense that the
fantastic is somehow illegitimate and has fled to the societal margins under
the cavalry charge of no-nonsense realism.Or else there is the obverse fear--a
fear of the loss of all literary value under the media barrage of fifth-rate
sci-fi, horror, and the like.  The upshot is that the literary prestige-makers
in this country tend to take seriously only products of so-called "realism,"
dismissing the "fantastic" as an odor arising from the bog of Popular Culture.
The big losers in all this are the intelligent general *readers*, who have been
brainwashed for nearly a century by market forces that continue to impoverish
our literature--and, of course, the seriously literary *writers* among us who
employ the fantastic, not for purposes of escapism, but as their principal mode
of expression of imaginative truth.

It is to correct this disorder that I, with the help of many friends here
and in England, have started CLF, the Council for the Literature of the
Fantastic, whose home base is the University of Rhode Island.  A significant
proportion of fantastic literature has undeservedly suffered for far too long
the bad rap of providing mere escapism.  CLF will fight back by providing major
services to publishers of any size, to editors, writers, and readers, to
literary agents and to educators, and to anyone else who has a stake in LF, the
*literature* of the fantastic.By employing the resources of a large university
and by enlisting the aid of sympathetic "real-world" pros, CLF will promote
those books, magazines, and writers that, in our best judgment, deserve wider
recognition than they currently enjoy.

THE CLF NEWSLETTER:  One prong of our attack will be a newsletter--in both a
hardcopy and an Internet edition.  Our growing list of Contributing Editors
includes Mark Amerika, Don D'ammassa, and Jeff Vandermeer.  The newsletter will
provide specific services to those of us with a stake in LF, such as (1)
responsible, professional reviews--both in-house and solicited--of journals,
magazines, and presses that print LF (with an emphasis on the financially more
limited *small* presses); (2) interviews with, and articles by, LF publishers,
in the field of LF; and (4) other valuable material, much of which will
eventually be suggested by our readers.

CLF AS CLEARING-HOUSE:  Part of the mission of CLF will be to act as a central
clearing-house for LF, literally to become a *distribution center for
English-language publications* that promote high literary standards for LF.
Supporting the sales efforts of (mostly) marginal publishers, we will advertise
and distribute copies of their wares to anyone interested--even offer specially
priced roundups of LF-related zines and books.

If you think that CLF can be of benefit to you, please send us *two copies*
of each book or magazine you would like us to review.  Address materials,
marking them as "for CLF review," to Daniel Pearlman, Department of English,
University of Rhode Island, Kingston, RI 02881.  If you would like to be on our
CLF mailing list, you may e-mail me at [log in to unmask] or write me at the
above-mentioned address.  Please email me for further information.

                              Daniel Pearlman
                              CLF Coordinator

                CLF /Pearlman  {PAGE|2}


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 19:27:22 1995
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 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4021; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:27:16 -0500
Date:         Thu, 23 Mar 95 19:19:29 EST
From: Dan Pearlman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: review mat'ls welcome
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:03:16 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

My apologies!
A couple of lines in my CLF message dropped out somehow during
transmission.  I'll print them here, with the surrounding passage:

>From Paragraph 2:
  Is it literary snobbism that prevents even one story from a genre
magazine such as _Fantasy & Science Fiction_ from inclusion--
despite the fact that the genre magazines print the largest
proportion of short fiction being published in this country?
That is apparently not enough of an explanation, since...

>From 3d paragraph from end:
(2) interviews with, and articles by, LF publishers, editors,
and writers; (3) detailed market news unavailable elsewhere
for writers in the field of LF;...

Thanks for your patience!
                         ==Dan Pearlman
                           CLF Coordinator

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 22:10:52 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
anyone with candidates for the list.
Please send your replies to me and I will consolodate the information and
post to the list.
Thanks in advance.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers
[log in to unmask]                           
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 23:36:41 1995
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Date:         Thu, 23 Mar 95 23:28:05 EST
From: Camille Bacon-Smith <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:46:12 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 22:10:52 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
anyone with candidates for the list.
Please send your replies to me and I will consolodate the information and
post to the list.
Thanks in advance.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers
[log in to unmask]                           
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 23 23:36:41 1995
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Date:         Thu, 23 Mar 95 23:28:05 EST
From: Camille Bacon-Smith <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:46:12 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 02:39:21 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:08 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:32 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees (fwd)

>Here is a message Boris sent me that I am going to forward to the list.
>Colleen
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 20:47:51 +0200
>From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees
>
>For those who would like to have Nebula and Hugo nomination lists.
>There are two ftp sites you can get the lists from.
>
>(from Ansible by Dave Langford)
>THE WEB OF THE CHOZEN
>Hugo awards list, http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/hugos/hugos.html
>Nebula awards list,
> http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/nebulas/nebulas.html
>The Scottish Convention, http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/intersection
>The Scottish Convention science programme,
> http://www.hq.eso.org/~dclement/items.html
>-----------------
>(Scottish Convention is this year Worldcon)
>
>> Reposting of message by Dave Howell from Colleen.
>>
>> From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
>> Subject: Award Nominees
>>
>> I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
>> Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
>> Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
>> wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.
>>
>> Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?
>
>I have read a book by Marshall Savage named "The Millennial
Project-Colonizing the Galaxy in 8 Easy Steps" it is SCIFI in the sense that
it is a blueprint on how to get US off this world and into space by
colonizing the Earth Oceans first  by building floating cities powered by
OTEC (ocean thermal energy coversion) to power the cities and train the
people to live and work.
 In Marshall's words "the stars are within our reach. We now have the
capacity, economically and technically, to leave this planet and begin the
infinite task of enlivening the universe. We can accomplish our ends in
eight easy steps: First, we will lay the Foundation, uniting oursleves
around the green banner of Cosmic destiny. The we will grow a crystalline
city, floating on the waves of the sea. With power from the ocean we will
launch ourselves into space, propelled aloft by a rainbow-hued array of
lasers. In orbit above the Earth, we will inflate gleaming golden bubbles to
shelter our new our new generation of space dwelling people. On the face of
the Moon, we will cap the craters with glistening domes, each sheltering a
green oasis of life. Mars will be transformed into a glorious gem of blue
oceans and swirling white clouds, vibrant and alice as Gaia herself. Among
the asteroids we will strew a spreading ring-cloud of billions and billions
of bubbles of lifee, shimmeriing like a galaxy of golden sparks. Finally, in
the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the chartreuse
elixir of life." The book gives the details and ideas of how this can be done.
 If you are interested in more info check on the Internet WWW

address " http://www.csn.net/~msavage

or call the First Foundation BBS at 303-625-3273

It is fiction now but a group of us are working on making it real!!!

[log in to unmask]

 >

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:15 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:37 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: SF-Courier (fwd)

>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 01:47:06 +0200
>From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: SF-Courier
>
>SF Courier, March 1995
>
>(e-mail SF news bulletin by Sergey Berezhnoy,
>translated into English by Boris Sidyuk)
>
>--- AUTHORS -----------------------------
>
>Eugeny Lukin has finished his novella THERE, BEYOND AKHERON.
>Evidently, it'll be published in the YESLI magazine via
>Andrey Chertkov [Eugeny Lukin, Volgograd].
>
>Andrey Izmailov requested Boris Strugatsy's permission to
>title his new thriller THE WHITE KNIGHT. It will be a futuristic
>novel and will bear no relation to the world of Strugatsky brothers.
>[Andrey Izmailov, Sankt Peterburg (SPb)].
>
>Boris Shtern writes a new novel called ETHIOPEAN, a alternate
>history. He plans to finish the novel by the end of this year.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>Sergey Lukyanenko writes sequel to his THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY
>ISLANDS (work title - THE WARS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS). He also
>continues writing his space opera STARS ARE COLD TOYS, an
>alternate history novel with its cross-split at the end of the
>X century [Sergey Lukyanenko, Alma-Ata].
>
>Dalia Truskinovskaya is planning to finish her 80,000 words
>novel-fantasy ROYAL BREED [Dalia Truskinovskaya, Riga].
>
>Elena Khaetskaya, the author of THE SWORD AND RAINBOW published
>by Severo-Zapad under her alias Madeline Simmons, signed an
>agreement with new agent the Spectre Literary Agency to
>manage her new novel THE CONQUERORS [200 magazine].
>
>--- RIGHTS -----------------------------------
>
>Sankt Peterburg Literary Agency SPECTRE (director Sergey Berezhnoy)
>currently manages rights for Olga Larionova, Svyatoslav Loginov,
>Georgy Martynov, Nikolay Romanetsky, Alexander Tyurin, Elena
>Khaetskaya, Alexander Shchogolev, Boris Shtern, Dalia Truskinovskaya,
>G.L.Oldy, Boris Ivanov, Yuri Shcherbatykh [200 magazine].
>
>--- MAGAZINES -------------------------------------
>
>Uralsky Sledopyt monthly magazine (Yekaterinburg) in its new issues
>publishes Vasily Shchepetnev's novella TO FEED ANIMALS PROHIBITED
>(#10'1994), Alexey Shchupov's novella COLD MALIOGONT (##1-2'1995),
>Vladislav Krapivin's novel SUMMER WILL NOT END SOON (##3-5'1995),
>Gennady Prashkevich's novella DEMON SOCRATUS (#7,1995). The editorial
>board also is preparing to publish a new novel of Vasily Golovachev
>and a new novella of Alexander Chumanov. They are also thinking on
>publishing a debut novel of Svetlana Zorina. The magazine has
>25,000 of paid circulation and is planning to raise it upto
>30,000 in a few months [Sergey Kazantsev, Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg].
>
>The fourth issue of 1995 of SPb magazine NEVA will be completely
>fulfilled with SF and Fantasy. They are planning to publish there
>Natalia Galkina's novella NIGHT MADMEN, Andrey Stolyarov's novellette
>FULL MOON TIME, N.Gaekho's story THE STONE CIRCLE, debut novella
>of N.Bizin and A.Ivanov BLIND SWALLOW and debut story of O.Gronsky
>SLY BATHYSCAPHE. Also planned to publish two short stories of
>Philip K.Dick [Vladimir Fadeyev, SPb].
>
>--- BOOKS ------------------------------------------
>
>In December 1994 KRANG Publishers of Kiev issued a debut fantasy novel
>of Marina and Sergey Dyachenko THE DOOR-KEEPER. The book pretends
>to be the best SF&F book of the 1994 years published in the Ukraine.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Kiev].
>
>Alter-Press will publish a huge volume of Boris Shtern's works
>in their book line which may be translated as SCIENCE FICTION
>AND FANTASY HALL OF FAME. The agreement was signed via Boris
>Sidyuk. During the 1994 Eurocon in Timisoara, Romania Boris
>Shtern got the main Eurocon Award as the best European SF
>writer of the year. He also has an offer to publish 2 or 3
>books from FLOKS publishers of Nyzhniy Novgorod. [Boris Sidyuk,
>Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>A new collection of Sergey Lukyanenko' works called
>THE LORD FROM THE PLANET EARTH was published in Alma-Ata by
>LIA NOMAD and includes his novels THE PRINCESS IS ABOUT
>TO DIE, THE PLANET WHICH DOESN'T EXIST and THE KNIGHTS OF
>THE FORTY ISLANDS and 5 short stories [Vladimir Vasilyev, Moscow].
>
>Algorythm, Ltd (Moscow) bought the rights to publish a collection
>called LEOPARD FROM THE MOUNT KILIMANJARO. Except her classic
>SF novel the book is called because of there will also be
>her novel CHACRE OF CENTAUR and short stories. Another collection
>of her will be published by PARALLEL of Nyzhniy Novgorod
>[200 magazine].
>
>Argus publishers of Moscow is planning to issue (in their
>book line CHRONOS) a book of Lev Vershinin (the 1994 best Ukrainian
>new SF writer). The book will include novel THE TWO AT THE FOOT OF
>ETERNITY, novella THE FIRST YEAR OF THE REPIBLIC and short stories.
>Argus is also planning to publish two books of Sergey Lukyanenko.
>[Oleg Pulya, Moscow]
>
>Tezis publishers issued two volumes of Semen Slepynin and a
>book of John Brunner. They are also going to publish the second
>volume of Gennady Prashkevich and two collections of Alexander
>Bushkov [Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg]
>
>POLYARIS publishers of Riga, Latvia is starting issuing a book
>line of Rusiian language authors. The first book will be Sergey
>Snegov's novel DICTATOR [Andrey Novikov, Riga]
>
>ALEXANDRIA and RUSICH companies continue issuing their joined
>SF book line THE TREASURE-HOUSE OF COOL SF AND ADVENTURES. In the
>near future they will issue three books of David Brin, a book
>of James Hogan and a book of Dave Volverton.
>
>Would you also post where these books and magazines can be found by mail
order or phone order, also any places on the Internet where some of these or
like kind can be found and maybe even downloaded??
>
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:19 1995
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          id AA57735; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:23:19 -0500
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
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X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: THE BILL

>I am on a media fandom list on listserve that does not have a usenet
>connection.  tonight on my mail I found an announcement that our ADULT
>fiction list had been cancelled until whoever is instructing our sysop
>to do this has a "better definition of what Pornography is."
>
>This is a lit that has never posted anything but mild vanilla sex
>that turned out the lights and shut the door before the characters
>ever got below the waste.
>
>Why am I posting this here?  Well, first, sf, for all its literary
>
>merit, has its roots in an interactive fan community--a community that
>in numbers growing almost beyond comprehension is producing its own
>fiction and posting it for free access on the net.  That rich ground
>in which the love of sf is fostered and the new writers are trained is
>even now being crushed.  The other reason I am posting here is that one
>of the new developments in literary sf has been the growth of erotica
>in the genres.  If the nets are imperiled, will the print media be
>far behind?  Will the repression foster a renewed caution that drives
>freedom of literary experimentation back underground (and where,
>underground, will be left for it to go?)
>
>Personally, I have never found the sex topics on the usenet of interest, and
> after the Michigan affair I can understand that the law has to be
>clear in its protection to people who are threatened directly and
>specifically regardless of the media in which the threat is communicated.
>
>  But when that clear need is used as an excuse to control any expression
>of anything remotely sexual in fiction for public consumption I am more
>than concerned--I am in a dead panic.
>
>Camille
>
>I can not agree more. Let the readers censor what they read by not reading
what they do not like!!! What gives anyone one the right to say what is
right or wrong for me or anyone else.
 Porn/sex/SCIFI or any other topic is in the eye of the reader. What is
normal for one person may be porn to the next person. Let the people decide
what is good or bad. If censorship starts where will it end and WHO says
what is right or wrong!
We have enough censorship in the world now without adding more by some
subjective method. With the religous right and liberal left who picks the
standards?? and why and where do they get this RIGHT to think for me or
someone else!
 Once censorship starts where does it STOP!!

[log in to unmask]



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 02:39:21 1995
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          id AA121766; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:39:21 -0500
Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA169790671; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:08 1995
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:32 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:32 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees (fwd)

>Here is a message Boris sent me that I am going to forward to the list.
>Colleen
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 95 20:47:51 +0200
>From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Reposting of Award Nominees
>
>For those who would like to have Nebula and Hugo nomination lists.
>There are two ftp sites you can get the lists from.
>
>(from Ansible by Dave Langford)
>THE WEB OF THE CHOZEN
>Hugo awards list, http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/hugos/hugos.html
>Nebula awards list,
> http://www.lm.com/~lmann/awards/nebulas/nebulas.html
>The Scottish Convention, http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/intersection
>The Scottish Convention science programme,
> http://www.hq.eso.org/~dclement/items.html
>-----------------
>(Scottish Convention is this year Worldcon)
>
>> Reposting of message by Dave Howell from Colleen.
>>
>> From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
>> Subject: Award Nominees
>>
>> I've started getting books in the mail from TOR for no apparent reason.
>> Specifically "Moving Mars" by Greg Bear and "Gun, with Occasional Music" by
>> Jonothan Lethem. My guess is they've been nominated for something, and Tor
>> wants to make sure I've read them so I might vote for them.
>>
>> Does anybody have a nominee list for either the Hugos or Nebulas?
>
>I have read a book by Marshall Savage named "The Millennial
Project-Colonizing the Galaxy in 8 Easy Steps" it is SCIFI in the sense that
it is a blueprint on how to get US off this world and into space by
colonizing the Earth Oceans first  by building floating cities powered by
OTEC (ocean thermal energy coversion) to power the cities and train the
people to live and work.
 In Marshall's words "the stars are within our reach. We now have the
capacity, economically and technically, to leave this planet and begin the
infinite task of enlivening the universe. We can accomplish our ends in
eight easy steps: First, we will lay the Foundation, uniting oursleves
around the green banner of Cosmic destiny. The we will grow a crystalline
city, floating on the waves of the sea. With power from the ocean we will
launch ourselves into space, propelled aloft by a rainbow-hued array of
lasers. In orbit above the Earth, we will inflate gleaming golden bubbles to
shelter our new our new generation of space dwelling people. On the face of
the Moon, we will cap the craters with glistening domes, each sheltering a
green oasis of life. Mars will be transformed into a glorious gem of blue
oceans and swirling white clouds, vibrant and alice as Gaia herself. Among
the asteroids we will strew a spreading ring-cloud of billions and billions
of bubbles of lifee, shimmeriing like a galaxy of golden sparks. Finally, in
the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the chartreuse
elixir of life." The book gives the details and ideas of how this can be done.
 If you are interested in more info check on the Internet WWW

address " http://www.csn.net/~msavage

or call the First Foundation BBS at 303-625-3273

It is fiction now but a group of us are working on making it real!!!

[log in to unmask]

 >

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:15 1995
Received: from teal.csn.net by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA172162; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:23:15 -0500
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:37 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:37 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: SF-Courier (fwd)

>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 01:47:06 +0200
>From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: SF-Courier
>
>SF Courier, March 1995
>
>(e-mail SF news bulletin by Sergey Berezhnoy,
>translated into English by Boris Sidyuk)
>
>--- AUTHORS -----------------------------
>
>Eugeny Lukin has finished his novella THERE, BEYOND AKHERON.
>Evidently, it'll be published in the YESLI magazine via
>Andrey Chertkov [Eugeny Lukin, Volgograd].
>
>Andrey Izmailov requested Boris Strugatsy's permission to
>title his new thriller THE WHITE KNIGHT. It will be a futuristic
>novel and will bear no relation to the world of Strugatsky brothers.
>[Andrey Izmailov, Sankt Peterburg (SPb)].
>
>Boris Shtern writes a new novel called ETHIOPEAN, a alternate
>history. He plans to finish the novel by the end of this year.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>Sergey Lukyanenko writes sequel to his THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY
>ISLANDS (work title - THE WARS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS). He also
>continues writing his space opera STARS ARE COLD TOYS, an
>alternate history novel with its cross-split at the end of the
>X century [Sergey Lukyanenko, Alma-Ata].
>
>Dalia Truskinovskaya is planning to finish her 80,000 words
>novel-fantasy ROYAL BREED [Dalia Truskinovskaya, Riga].
>
>Elena Khaetskaya, the author of THE SWORD AND RAINBOW published
>by Severo-Zapad under her alias Madeline Simmons, signed an
>agreement with new agent the Spectre Literary Agency to
>manage her new novel THE CONQUERORS [200 magazine].
>
>--- RIGHTS -----------------------------------
>
>Sankt Peterburg Literary Agency SPECTRE (director Sergey Berezhnoy)
>currently manages rights for Olga Larionova, Svyatoslav Loginov,
>Georgy Martynov, Nikolay Romanetsky, Alexander Tyurin, Elena
>Khaetskaya, Alexander Shchogolev, Boris Shtern, Dalia Truskinovskaya,
>G.L.Oldy, Boris Ivanov, Yuri Shcherbatykh [200 magazine].
>
>--- MAGAZINES -------------------------------------
>
>Uralsky Sledopyt monthly magazine (Yekaterinburg) in its new issues
>publishes Vasily Shchepetnev's novella TO FEED ANIMALS PROHIBITED
>(#10'1994), Alexey Shchupov's novella COLD MALIOGONT (##1-2'1995),
>Vladislav Krapivin's novel SUMMER WILL NOT END SOON (##3-5'1995),
>Gennady Prashkevich's novella DEMON SOCRATUS (#7,1995). The editorial
>board also is preparing to publish a new novel of Vasily Golovachev
>and a new novella of Alexander Chumanov. They are also thinking on
>publishing a debut novel of Svetlana Zorina. The magazine has
>25,000 of paid circulation and is planning to raise it upto
>30,000 in a few months [Sergey Kazantsev, Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg].
>
>The fourth issue of 1995 of SPb magazine NEVA will be completely
>fulfilled with SF and Fantasy. They are planning to publish there
>Natalia Galkina's novella NIGHT MADMEN, Andrey Stolyarov's novellette
>FULL MOON TIME, N.Gaekho's story THE STONE CIRCLE, debut novella
>of N.Bizin and A.Ivanov BLIND SWALLOW and debut story of O.Gronsky
>SLY BATHYSCAPHE. Also planned to publish two short stories of
>Philip K.Dick [Vladimir Fadeyev, SPb].
>
>--- BOOKS ------------------------------------------
>
>In December 1994 KRANG Publishers of Kiev issued a debut fantasy novel
>of Marina and Sergey Dyachenko THE DOOR-KEEPER. The book pretends
>to be the best SF&F book of the 1994 years published in the Ukraine.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Kiev].
>
>Alter-Press will publish a huge volume of Boris Shtern's works
>in their book line which may be translated as SCIENCE FICTION
>AND FANTASY HALL OF FAME. The agreement was signed via Boris
>Sidyuk. During the 1994 Eurocon in Timisoara, Romania Boris
>Shtern got the main Eurocon Award as the best European SF
>writer of the year. He also has an offer to publish 2 or 3
>books from FLOKS publishers of Nyzhniy Novgorod. [Boris Sidyuk,
>Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>A new collection of Sergey Lukyanenko' works called
>THE LORD FROM THE PLANET EARTH was published in Alma-Ata by
>LIA NOMAD and includes his novels THE PRINCESS IS ABOUT
>TO DIE, THE PLANET WHICH DOESN'T EXIST and THE KNIGHTS OF
>THE FORTY ISLANDS and 5 short stories [Vladimir Vasilyev, Moscow].
>
>Algorythm, Ltd (Moscow) bought the rights to publish a collection
>called LEOPARD FROM THE MOUNT KILIMANJARO. Except her classic
>SF novel the book is called because of there will also be
>her novel CHACRE OF CENTAUR and short stories. Another collection
>of her will be published by PARALLEL of Nyzhniy Novgorod
>[200 magazine].
>
>Argus publishers of Moscow is planning to issue (in their
>book line CHRONOS) a book of Lev Vershinin (the 1994 best Ukrainian
>new SF writer). The book will include novel THE TWO AT THE FOOT OF
>ETERNITY, novella THE FIRST YEAR OF THE REPIBLIC and short stories.
>Argus is also planning to publish two books of Sergey Lukyanenko.
>[Oleg Pulya, Moscow]
>
>Tezis publishers issued two volumes of Semen Slepynin and a
>book of John Brunner. They are also going to publish the second
>volume of Gennady Prashkevich and two collections of Alexander
>Bushkov [Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg]
>
>POLYARIS publishers of Riga, Latvia is starting issuing a book
>line of Rusiian language authors. The first book will be Sergey
>Snegov's novel DICTATOR [Andrey Novikov, Riga]
>
>ALEXANDRIA and RUSICH companies continue issuing their joined
>SF book line THE TREASURE-HOUSE OF COOL SF AND ADVENTURES. In the
>near future they will issue three books of David Brin, a book
>of James Hogan and a book of Dave Volverton.
>
>Would you also post where these books and magazines can be found by mail
order or phone order, also any places on the Internet where some of these or
like kind can be found and maybe even downloaded??
>
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:19 1995
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          id AA57735; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:23:19 -0500
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: THE BILL

>I am on a media fandom list on listserve that does not have a usenet
>connection.  tonight on my mail I found an announcement that our ADULT
>fiction list had been cancelled until whoever is instructing our sysop
>to do this has a "better definition of what Pornography is."
>
>This is a lit that has never posted anything but mild vanilla sex
>that turned out the lights and shut the door before the characters
>ever got below the waste.
>
>Why am I posting this here?  Well, first, sf, for all its literary
>
>merit, has its roots in an interactive fan community--a community that
>in numbers growing almost beyond comprehension is producing its own
>fiction and posting it for free access on the net.  That rich ground
>in which the love of sf is fostered and the new writers are trained is
>even now being crushed.  The other reason I am posting here is that one
>of the new developments in literary sf has been the growth of erotica
>in the genres.  If the nets are imperiled, will the print media be
>far behind?  Will the repression foster a renewed caution that drives
>freedom of literary experimentation back underground (and where,
>underground, will be left for it to go?)
>
>Personally, I have never found the sex topics on the usenet of interest, and
> after the Michigan affair I can understand that the law has to be
>clear in its protection to people who are threatened directly and
>specifically regardless of the media in which the threat is communicated.
>
>  But when that clear need is used as an excuse to control any expression
>of anything remotely sexual in fiction for public consumption I am more
>than concerned--I am in a dead panic.
>
>Camille
>
>I can not agree more. Let the readers censor what they read by not reading
what they do not like!!! What gives anyone one the right to say what is
right or wrong for me or anyone else.
 Porn/sex/SCIFI or any other topic is in the eye of the reader. What is
normal for one person may be porn to the next person. Let the people decide
what is good or bad. If censorship starts where will it end and WHO says
what is right or wrong!
We have enough censorship in the world now without adding more by some
subjective method. With the religous right and liberal left who picks the
standards?? and why and where do they get this RIGHT to think for me or
someone else!
 Once censorship starts where does it STOP!!

[log in to unmask]



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:15 1995
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:37 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:37 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: SF-Courier (fwd)

>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 01:47:06 +0200
>From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: SF-Courier
>
>SF Courier, March 1995
>
>(e-mail SF news bulletin by Sergey Berezhnoy,
>translated into English by Boris Sidyuk)
>
>--- AUTHORS -----------------------------
>
>Eugeny Lukin has finished his novella THERE, BEYOND AKHERON.
>Evidently, it'll be published in the YESLI magazine via
>Andrey Chertkov [Eugeny Lukin, Volgograd].
>
>Andrey Izmailov requested Boris Strugatsy's permission to
>title his new thriller THE WHITE KNIGHT. It will be a futuristic
>novel and will bear no relation to the world of Strugatsky brothers.
>[Andrey Izmailov, Sankt Peterburg (SPb)].
>
>Boris Shtern writes a new novel called ETHIOPEAN, a alternate
>history. He plans to finish the novel by the end of this year.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>Sergey Lukyanenko writes sequel to his THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY
>ISLANDS (work title - THE WARS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS). He also
>continues writing his space opera STARS ARE COLD TOYS, an
>alternate history novel with its cross-split at the end of the
>X century [Sergey Lukyanenko, Alma-Ata].
>
>Dalia Truskinovskaya is planning to finish her 80,000 words
>novel-fantasy ROYAL BREED [Dalia Truskinovskaya, Riga].
>
>Elena Khaetskaya, the author of THE SWORD AND RAINBOW published
>by Severo-Zapad under her alias Madeline Simmons, signed an
>agreement with new agent the Spectre Literary Agency to
>manage her new novel THE CONQUERORS [200 magazine].
>
>--- RIGHTS -----------------------------------
>
>Sankt Peterburg Literary Agency SPECTRE (director Sergey Berezhnoy)
>currently manages rights for Olga Larionova, Svyatoslav Loginov,
>Georgy Martynov, Nikolay Romanetsky, Alexander Tyurin, Elena
>Khaetskaya, Alexander Shchogolev, Boris Shtern, Dalia Truskinovskaya,
>G.L.Oldy, Boris Ivanov, Yuri Shcherbatykh [200 magazine].
>
>--- MAGAZINES -------------------------------------
>
>Uralsky Sledopyt monthly magazine (Yekaterinburg) in its new issues
>publishes Vasily Shchepetnev's novella TO FEED ANIMALS PROHIBITED
>(#10'1994), Alexey Shchupov's novella COLD MALIOGONT (##1-2'1995),
>Vladislav Krapivin's novel SUMMER WILL NOT END SOON (##3-5'1995),
>Gennady Prashkevich's novella DEMON SOCRATUS (#7,1995). The editorial
>board also is preparing to publish a new novel of Vasily Golovachev
>and a new novella of Alexander Chumanov. They are also thinking on
>publishing a debut novel of Svetlana Zorina. The magazine has
>25,000 of paid circulation and is planning to raise it upto
>30,000 in a few months [Sergey Kazantsev, Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg].
>
>The fourth issue of 1995 of SPb magazine NEVA will be completely
>fulfilled with SF and Fantasy. They are planning to publish there
>Natalia Galkina's novella NIGHT MADMEN, Andrey Stolyarov's novellette
>FULL MOON TIME, N.Gaekho's story THE STONE CIRCLE, debut novella
>of N.Bizin and A.Ivanov BLIND SWALLOW and debut story of O.Gronsky
>SLY BATHYSCAPHE. Also planned to publish two short stories of
>Philip K.Dick [Vladimir Fadeyev, SPb].
>
>--- BOOKS ------------------------------------------
>
>In December 1994 KRANG Publishers of Kiev issued a debut fantasy novel
>of Marina and Sergey Dyachenko THE DOOR-KEEPER. The book pretends
>to be the best SF&F book of the 1994 years published in the Ukraine.
>[Boris Sidyuk, Kiev].
>
>Alter-Press will publish a huge volume of Boris Shtern's works
>in their book line which may be translated as SCIENCE FICTION
>AND FANTASY HALL OF FAME. The agreement was signed via Boris
>Sidyuk. During the 1994 Eurocon in Timisoara, Romania Boris
>Shtern got the main Eurocon Award as the best European SF
>writer of the year. He also has an offer to publish 2 or 3
>books from FLOKS publishers of Nyzhniy Novgorod. [Boris Sidyuk,
>Boris Shtern, Kiev].
>
>A new collection of Sergey Lukyanenko' works called
>THE LORD FROM THE PLANET EARTH was published in Alma-Ata by
>LIA NOMAD and includes his novels THE PRINCESS IS ABOUT
>TO DIE, THE PLANET WHICH DOESN'T EXIST and THE KNIGHTS OF
>THE FORTY ISLANDS and 5 short stories [Vladimir Vasilyev, Moscow].
>
>Algorythm, Ltd (Moscow) bought the rights to publish a collection
>called LEOPARD FROM THE MOUNT KILIMANJARO. Except her classic
>SF novel the book is called because of there will also be
>her novel CHACRE OF CENTAUR and short stories. Another collection
>of her will be published by PARALLEL of Nyzhniy Novgorod
>[200 magazine].
>
>Argus publishers of Moscow is planning to issue (in their
>book line CHRONOS) a book of Lev Vershinin (the 1994 best Ukrainian
>new SF writer). The book will include novel THE TWO AT THE FOOT OF
>ETERNITY, novella THE FIRST YEAR OF THE REPIBLIC and short stories.
>Argus is also planning to publish two books of Sergey Lukyanenko.
>[Oleg Pulya, Moscow]
>
>Tezis publishers issued two volumes of Semen Slepynin and a
>book of John Brunner. They are also going to publish the second
>volume of Gennady Prashkevich and two collections of Alexander
>Bushkov [Igor Kuzovlev, Yekaterinburg]
>
>POLYARIS publishers of Riga, Latvia is starting issuing a book
>line of Rusiian language authors. The first book will be Sergey
>Snegov's novel DICTATOR [Andrey Novikov, Riga]
>
>ALEXANDRIA and RUSICH companies continue issuing their joined
>SF book line THE TREASURE-HOUSE OF COOL SF AND ADVENTURES. In the
>near future they will issue three books of David Brin, a book
>of James Hogan and a book of Dave Volverton.
>
>Would you also post where these books and magazines can be found by mail
order or phone order, also any places on the Internet where some of these or
like kind can be found and maybe even downloaded??
>
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 03:23:19 1995
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          id AA57735; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:23:19 -0500
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <[log in to unmask]>); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:44 -0700
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: THE BILL

>I am on a media fandom list on listserve that does not have a usenet
>connection.  tonight on my mail I found an announcement that our ADULT
>fiction list had been cancelled until whoever is instructing our sysop
>to do this has a "better definition of what Pornography is."
>
>This is a lit that has never posted anything but mild vanilla sex
>that turned out the lights and shut the door before the characters
>ever got below the waste.
>
>Why am I posting this here?  Well, first, sf, for all its literary
>
>merit, has its roots in an interactive fan community--a community that
>in numbers growing almost beyond comprehension is producing its own
>fiction and posting it for free access on the net.  That rich ground
>in which the love of sf is fostered and the new writers are trained is
>even now being crushed.  The other reason I am posting here is that one
>of the new developments in literary sf has been the growth of erotica
>in the genres.  If the nets are imperiled, will the print media be
>far behind?  Will the repression foster a renewed caution that drives
>freedom of literary experimentation back underground (and where,
>underground, will be left for it to go?)
>
>Personally, I have never found the sex topics on the usenet of interest, and
> after the Michigan affair I can understand that the law has to be
>clear in its protection to people who are threatened directly and
>specifically regardless of the media in which the threat is communicated.
>
>  But when that clear need is used as an excuse to control any expression
>of anything remotely sexual in fiction for public consumption I am more
>than concerned--I am in a dead panic.
>
>Camille
>
>I can not agree more. Let the readers censor what they read by not reading
what they do not like!!! What gives anyone one the right to say what is
right or wrong for me or anyone else.
 Porn/sex/SCIFI or any other topic is in the eye of the reader. What is
normal for one person may be porn to the next person. Let the people decide
what is good or bad. If censorship starts where will it end and WHO says
what is right or wrong!
We have enough censorship in the world now without adding more by some
subjective method. With the religous right and liberal left who picks the
standards?? and why and where do they get this RIGHT to think for me or
someone else!
 Once censorship starts where does it STOP!!

[log in to unmask]



From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:00:27 1995
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          id AA24561; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:00:27 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:00:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Again, my apologies, LISTPROC is being very cranky today.  This is 
re-posted as only part of the list recieved the message.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sf for children

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
anyone with candidates for the list.
Please send your replies to me and I will consolodate the information and
post to the list.
Thanks in advance.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers
[log in to unmask]                           

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:01:47 1995
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          id AA16473; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:47 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar (Delete of you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posted due to failure of LISTPROC to distribute to the whole list.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:01:47 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA16473; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:47 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar (Delete of you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posted due to failure of LISTPROC to distribute to the whole list.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:28:35 1995
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          id AA30579; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:28:35 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:28:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Patricia,
	I think the Madeleine L'engle's series starting with _A wrinkle 
in time_ is very good (all the books).  I also like Susan Cooper's _The 
dark is rising_, but that is fantasy.  
Colleen
_________________________________________________________________________
Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!       
__________________________________________________________________________

 
From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:41:51 1995
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          id AA43670; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:41:51 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:41:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:34:18 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children

I have two boys aged 14 and 10.  They are both getting into SF in a big way (and
both read well above their age group).

Books they loved:

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
Thief of Always - Clive Barker
Ender's Game / Speaker for the Dead / Xenocide - Orson Scott Card
Anything by Ray Bradbury (Short stories, Something Wicked This Way Comes)
Any juveniles by Robert Heinlein (Tunnel in the Sky, Time for the Stars)
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card
Ride a Pale Horse by Piers Anthony

Myself, I devowered Andre Norton and Heinlein books when I was growing
up.  Especially:  Time for the Stars - Andre Norton
                  Citizen of the Galaxy - Heinlein

I would also recommend the Tanith Lee juvenile series coming out from Atheneum
(Black Unicorn the first in the series, I forgot the next one).

*******************************************************************************
                               __        ____
Steven L. Goldstein           /    /    /       Voice: (603) 337-7619 - work
Cabletron Systems            /__  /    / __            (603) 888-5680 - home
P. O. Box 5005                 / /    /   /     Internet: [log in to unmask]
Rochester, NH 03866-5005   ___/ /___ /___/                         

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 08:35:58 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30674; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:35:58 -0500
Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:39:12 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:36:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  sf for children (delete if you already saw this header) 
   
	      -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Again, my apologies, LISTPROC is being very cranky today.  This is 
re-posted as only part of the list recieved the message.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sf for children

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers [log in to unmask] , writes:

>I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>anyone with candidates for the list.

Yes!  "A Wrinkle in Time" was fantastic - great for the 10 or 11 year olds.
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:28:35 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30579; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:28:35 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:28:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Patricia,
	I think the Madeleine L'engle's series starting with _A wrinkle 
in time_ is very good (all the books).  I also like Susan Cooper's _The 
dark is rising_, but that is fantasy.  
Colleen
_________________________________________________________________________
Colleen R.C. Stumbaugh, Senior Processing Librarian    [log in to unmask]
Library of Congress                                  (202) 707-4132
Washington, DC 20540-4861                       FAX: (202) 707-4142
These opinions are mine, Mine MINE!       
__________________________________________________________________________

 
From cstu  Fri Mar 24 08:41:51 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA43670; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:41:51 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:41:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:34:18 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children

I have two boys aged 14 and 10.  They are both getting into SF in a big way (and
both read well above their age group).

Books they loved:

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
Thief of Always - Clive Barker
Ender's Game / Speaker for the Dead / Xenocide - Orson Scott Card
Anything by Ray Bradbury (Short stories, Something Wicked This Way Comes)
Any juveniles by Robert Heinlein (Tunnel in the Sky, Time for the Stars)
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card
Ride a Pale Horse by Piers Anthony

Myself, I devowered Andre Norton and Heinlein books when I was growing
up.  Especially:  Time for the Stars - Andre Norton
                  Citizen of the Galaxy - Heinlein

I would also recommend the Tanith Lee juvenile series coming out from Atheneum
(Black Unicorn the first in the series, I forgot the next one).

*******************************************************************************
                               __        ____
Steven L. Goldstein           /    /    /       Voice: (603) 337-7619 - work
Cabletron Systems            /__  /    / __            (603) 888-5680 - home
P. O. Box 5005                 / /    /   /     Internet: [log in to unmask]
Rochester, NH 03866-5005   ___/ /___ /___/                         

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 08:35:58 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30674; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:35:58 -0500
Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:39:12 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:36:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  sf for children (delete if you already saw this header) 
   
	      -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Again, my apologies, LISTPROC is being very cranky today.  This is 
re-posted as only part of the list recieved the message.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sf for children

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers [log in to unmask] , writes:

>I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>anyone with candidates for the list.

Yes!  "A Wrinkle in Time" was fantastic - great for the 10 or 11 year olds.
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 08:35:58 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30674; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:35:58 -0500
Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:39:12 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:36:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  sf for children (delete if you already saw this header) 
   
	      -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Again, my apologies, LISTPROC is being very cranky today.  This is 
re-posted as only part of the list recieved the message.
Colleen

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sf for children

Hello to all lovers of science fiction.

Patricia Altner
Information Seekers [log in to unmask] , writes:

>I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>anyone with candidates for the list.

Yes!  "A Wrinkle in Time" was fantastic - great for the 10 or 11 year olds.
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 09:30:38 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA24737; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:30:38 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:30:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar (Delete of you have seen this header) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-Re-posted due to failure of LISTPROC to distribute to the whole list.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 09:20:13 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)


----- Begin Included Message -----

>From [log in to unmask] Fri Mar 24 09:08:30 1995
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:05:38 -0500
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Subject: sf for children (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:34:18 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children

I have two boys aged 14 and 10.  They are both getting into SF in a big way (and
both read well above their age group).

Books they loved:

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
Thief of Always - Clive Barker
Ender's Game / Speaker for the Dead / Xenocide - Orson Scott Card
Anything by Ray Bradbury (Short stories, Something Wicked This Way Comes)
Any juveniles by Robert Heinlein (Tunnel in the Sky, Time for the Stars)
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card
Ride a Pale Horse by Piers Anthony

Myself, I devowered Andre Norton and Heinlein books when I was growing
up.  Especially:  Time for the Stars - Andre Norton
                  Citizen of the Galaxy - Heinlein

I would also recommend the Tanith Lee juvenile series coming out from Atheneum
(Black Unicorn the first in the series, I forgot the next one).

*******************************************************************************
                               __        ____
Steven L. Goldstein           /    /    /       Voice: (603) 337-7619 - work
Cabletron Systems            /__  /    / __            (603) 888-5680 - home
P. O. Box 5005                 / /    /   /     Internet: [log in to unmask]
Rochester, NH 03866-5005   ___/ /___ /___/                         



----- End Included Message -----

Tanith Lee's second unicorn book is _Gold Unicorn_.  The third, not out yet,
will be _Red Unicorn_ (I think...)

Other good books for kids are _So You Want to Be a Wizard_ by Diane Duane
and _A Wrinkle in Time_ by Madeline L'Engle.  And, or course, _The Hobbit_.
I read that when I was 10 and loved it.  That's what really got me involved
in fantasy literature.

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]
From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 09:23:53 1995
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          id AA36654; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:23:53 -0500
Via: bham.ac.uk; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:21:23 +0000
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:12:15 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again
To: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"24_Mar_95_14:12:15_GMT_#7896"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/Original message\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Camille said,
Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

I just want to ask whether this makes all cyber-fiction neccessarily postmodern
and if so, can someone give me an example? I'm intrigued by the attempts to cre
ate narrative in textual form about something which will supposedly make hard c
opy obsolete. I also wondered whether the cyberpunk novels predate the technolo
gy that realises them. The myth of William Gibson writing on a typewriter has s
uperceded the myth of Gibson technospod, but in a sense this is an image licens
ed by Gibson. I'm not really sure I'm coherent on this, or I understood what
Camille said. Anyone help?
                          Jonathan Laidlow, University Of Birmingham




From cstu  Fri Mar 24 09:30:38 1995
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          id AA24737; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:30:38 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:30:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar (Delete of you have seen this header) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-Re-posted due to failure of LISTPROC to distribute to the whole list.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 09:20:13 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:18:58 EST
From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)


----- Begin Included Message -----

>From [log in to unmask] Fri Mar 24 09:08:30 1995
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:05:38 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Originator: [log in to unmask]
Sender: [log in to unmask]
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sf for children (fwd)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv
Content-Length: 1451



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:34:18 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: sf for children

I have two boys aged 14 and 10.  They are both getting into SF in a big way (and
both read well above their age group).

Books they loved:

Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
Thief of Always - Clive Barker
Ender's Game / Speaker for the Dead / Xenocide - Orson Scott Card
Anything by Ray Bradbury (Short stories, Something Wicked This Way Comes)
Any juveniles by Robert Heinlein (Tunnel in the Sky, Time for the Stars)
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card
Ride a Pale Horse by Piers Anthony

Myself, I devowered Andre Norton and Heinlein books when I was growing
up.  Especially:  Time for the Stars - Andre Norton
                  Citizen of the Galaxy - Heinlein

I would also recommend the Tanith Lee juvenile series coming out from Atheneum
(Black Unicorn the first in the series, I forgot the next one).

*******************************************************************************
                               __        ____
Steven L. Goldstein           /    /    /       Voice: (603) 337-7619 - work
Cabletron Systems            /__  /    / __            (603) 888-5680 - home
P. O. Box 5005                 / /    /   /     Internet: [log in to unmask]
Rochester, NH 03866-5005   ___/ /___ /___/                         



----- End Included Message -----

Tanith Lee's second unicorn book is _Gold Unicorn_.  The third, not out yet,
will be _Red Unicorn_ (I think...)

Other good books for kids are _So You Want to Be a Wizard_ by Diane Duane
and _A Wrinkle in Time_ by Madeline L'Engle.  And, or course, _The Hobbit_.
I read that when I was 10 and loved it.  That's what really got me involved
in fantasy literature.

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]
From @ibm3090.computer-centre.birmingham.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 09:23:53 1995
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          id AA36654; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:23:53 -0500
Via: bham.ac.uk; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:21:23 +0000
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:12:15 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again
To: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <"24_Mar_95_14:12:15_GMT_#7896"@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090>



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/Original message\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Camille said,
Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

I just want to ask whether this makes all cyber-fiction neccessarily postmodern
and if so, can someone give me an example? I'm intrigued by the attempts to cre
ate narrative in textual form about something which will supposedly make hard c
opy obsolete. I also wondered whether the cyberpunk novels predate the technolo
gy that realises them. The myth of William Gibson writing on a typewriter has s
uperceded the myth of Gibson technospod, but in a sense this is an image licens
ed by Gibson. I'm not really sure I'm coherent on this, or I understood what
Camille said. Anyone help?
                          Jonathan Laidlow, University Of Birmingham




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 10:24:12 1995
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          id AA26003; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:24:12 -0500
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 Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:23:29 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:23:29 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The chartreuse elixir of life
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <01HOIE6SOXW29PM9PH@DBV>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>I have read a book by Marshall Savage named "The Millennial
>Project-Colonizing the Galaxy in 8 Easy Steps" it is SCIFI in the sense that
>it is a blueprint on how to get US off this world and into space by
>colonizing the Earth Oceans first  by building floating cities powered by
>OTEC (ocean thermal energy coversion) to power the cities and train the
>people to live and work.
> In Marshall's words "the stars are within our reach. We now have the
>capacity, economically and technically, to leave this planet and begin the
>infinite task of enlivening the universe. We can accomplish our ends in
>eight easy steps: First, we will lay the Foundation, uniting oursleves
>around the green banner of Cosmic destiny. ... Finally, in
>the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
>across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the chartreuse
>elixir of life."
--From Daverx Miller's recent post.

C.S. Lewis was deeply bothered by this kind of heroic vision, and he addressed
it in his space trilogy, especially _Out of the Silent Planet_.  There might in
fact be a good reason the stars are so distant!

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 10:53:00 1995
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          id AA37170; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:53:00 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:53:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar (Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting due to LISTPROC missing part of the list, I think twice now. 
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:37:52 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stand on Zanzibar

Christina Noll [[log in to unmask]] said:

>I'm slogging through John Brunner's "Stand on Zanzibar" - 
>anybody read it, what did they think, 
>is it worth reading the sequel, "The Sheep Look Up"?


I have read and liked a number of Brunner's novels over the 
years, but I found _Stand on Zanzibar_   and  _The Sheep 
Look Up_  unreadable.

The two aforementioned novels are part of his excessively didactic period. 
He forgot he was a story teller and let the message dominate utterly. 
His stories always have a didactic theme, but usually the "story is the
thing" rather than the message.

I would recommend to you the following Brunner novels as
being more representative of his work.

Born Under Mars, Ace Books 1967.
Entry to Elsewhere, DAW 1972. [3 novelets]
>From This Day Forward, DAW 1972. [Anthology, Stories date 1955-1972]
Give Warning to the World, DAW 1974.
Slavers of Space, Ace Books 1960.
Sanctuary in the Sky, Ace Books 1960.
Times Without Number, Ace Books 1962.

Most of these have been reprinted, but I don't have citations for them handy.

Don't give up on Brunner. Most of his works are stimulating to the mind and
the imagination as well as being engrossing reading. "Even the imortal Will 
had his off days" as somebody or the other once said.

       Gary

      Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 10:54:08 1995
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          id AA30304; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:54:08 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:54:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf porn (Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting as LISTPROC missed part of the List.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:29 -0700
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: sf porn

>
>I seem to have missed the start of this thread, so forgive
>me if this message comes out of left field.  While pornography
>(or erotica, depending on your P.O.V.) isn't as common in sf
>as it once was, it's alive and well in horror.  Witness such
>anthologies as _I Shudder at Your Touch_, _Shudder Again_, 
>and _Love in Vein_.  For an sf version of this, there's 
>Ellen Datlow's _Alien Sex_ anthology.
>
>Circlet Press publishes a whole lots of anthologies of
>horror and dark fantasy erotica.  It's nowhere near mainstream,
>but it makes enough money to keep going.
>
>On another track, are any list members going to be at
>Lunacon this weekend?
>
>Marina Frants
>[log in to unmask]
>
>Could you list the address and phone number for Circlet Press??
thanks
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 10:56:12 1995
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          id AA19438; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:56:12 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:56:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting and I hope it makes it throught this time.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:12:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/Original message\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Camille said,
Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

I just want to ask whether this makes all cyber-fiction neccessarily postmodern
and if so, can someone give me an example? I'm intrigued by the attempts to cre
ate narrative in textual form about something which will supposedly make hard c
opy obsolete. I also wondered whether the cyberpunk novels predate the technolo
gy that realises them. The myth of William Gibson writing on a typewriter has s
uperceded the myth of Gibson technospod, but in a sense this is an image licens
ed by Gibson. I'm not really sure I'm coherent on this, or I understood what
Camille said. Anyone help?
                          Jonathan Laidlow, University Of Birmingham





From cstu  Fri Mar 24 10:54:08 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30304; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:54:08 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:54:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf porn (Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Re-posting as LISTPROC missed part of the List.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:21:29 -0700
From: [log in to unmask] (Daverx Miller)
Subject: Re: sf porn

>
>I seem to have missed the start of this thread, so forgive
>me if this message comes out of left field.  While pornography
>(or erotica, depending on your P.O.V.) isn't as common in sf
>as it once was, it's alive and well in horror.  Witness such
>anthologies as _I Shudder at Your Touch_, _Shudder Again_, 
>and _Love in Vein_.  For an sf version of this, there's 
>Ellen Datlow's _Alien Sex_ anthology.
>
>Circlet Press publishes a whole lots of anthologies of
>horror and dark fantasy erotica.  It's nowhere near mainstream,
>but it makes enough money to keep going.
>
>On another track, are any list members going to be at
>Lunacon this weekend?
>
>Marina Frants
>[log in to unmask]
>
>Could you list the address and phone number for Circlet Press??
thanks
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 10:56:12 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA19438; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:56:12 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:56:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposting and I hope it makes it throught this time.
Colleen

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:12:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/Original message\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Camille said,
Jonathan, I think part of your problem is that, while the science fictional
descriptions of space flight during the periods of the space race can be
read in the modernist tradition, computer technology is itself "postmodern"
particularly in the sense of the simulacra, and the leveling of communication
hierarchies--culture as event, as spectacle, and society as fragmented--
isolated entities creating the simulacra of culture in phosphor dots (sort
of like we are doing here, heh-heh-heh).  So, if you want to describe
cyberppunk in the terms of the culture that nourishes it, you pretty
much have to look at the literature on the postmodern.  There is a book
you should read, CYBERSPACE, edited by Michael Benedikt, from MIT press.
I found the essay by Donna Haraway particularly useful, and you might as well.

I just want to ask whether this makes all cyber-fiction neccessarily postmodern
and if so, can someone give me an example? I'm intrigued by the attempts to cre
ate narrative in textual form about something which will supposedly make hard c
opy obsolete. I also wondered whether the cyberpunk novels predate the technolo
gy that realises them. The myth of William Gibson writing on a typewriter has s
uperceded the myth of Gibson technospod, but in a sense this is an image licens
ed by Gibson. I'm not really sure I'm coherent on this, or I understood what
Camille said. Anyone help?
                          Jonathan Laidlow, University Of Birmingham





From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 11:24:14 1995
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Posted-Date: 24 Mar 1995 11:28:20 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 24 Mar 1995 11:28:20 -0500
From: "George Porter" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More  on Brunner
To: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.1

Subject:More  on Brunner                                 Date:3/24/95
Time:11:25...

Gary Swaty's reply to Christina Noll covered many fine examples of John
Brunner's work, but omitted my favorite piece of his, _The Shockwave rider_.

George Porter
Engineering Reference Librarian
NCSU Libraries
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 11:25:30 1995
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	id <[log in to unmask]>; Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:14:26 UTC
From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE:  elixir of life, and Brunner
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:13:00 UTC
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Encoding: 17 TEXT
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 -> > ... Finally, in
 -> >the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
 -> >across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the 
chartreuse
 -> >elixir of life."
 -> --From Daverx Miller's recent post.
 ->

I think infest is a more appropriate word than inseminate.

On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a 
work of word art than as a story.

markw

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 11:25:30 1995
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From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE:  elixir of life, and Brunner
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:13:00 UTC
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 -> > ... Finally, in
 -> >the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
 -> >across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the 
chartreuse
 -> >elixir of life."
 -> --From Daverx Miller's recent post.
 ->

I think infest is a more appropriate word than inseminate.

On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a 
work of word art than as a story.

markw

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 13:15:50 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:15:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
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I thought this would interest everyone.
Colleen

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:07:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle) <[log in to unmask]>
To: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children



I am not sure how you feel about Fantasy, and if it will be adequate for 
your needs, but I read the Xanth series when I was 10. While I didn't 
understand all of the adult complexities and subtleties, I thoroughly 
enjoyed the over-the-top characterizations, the puns and the fantastic 
settings. There are many aspects of these books that I feel can be 
enjoyed and comprehended by pre-teens.

Good luck!

Michelle

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 11:44:37 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
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Subject: children sf
Lines: 19

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From shal  Fri Mar 24 12:21:56 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:21:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this header)
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>  I also wondered whether the cyberpunk novels predate the technolo
> gy that realises them. 
>                           Jonathan Laidlow, University Of Birmingham

I'll stay out of the postmodern aspects of the discussion -- I think that 
all depends on your definition of postmodern. But the idea that cyberpunk 
fiction is driving the engineers or predates the technology doesn't ring 
true for me.  I think there are many examples of sf driving the real 
world. We _did_ go to the moon largely because of the popular response to 
the movie version of Heinlein's _Destination Moon_.  But I have not 
observed that the engineers/experimental psycologists/biomedical technicians 
and the like who are involved in computer interface with the brain, 
mecanical sensory implants, or virtual reality devices need any 
encouragement from cyberpunk writers to make fantastic predictions for what 
their technology can do. (Now you can certainly make a case that some of 
those engineers grew up reading science fiction ..)  

My brother was involved early on in computer miniaturizaton. I remember 
hearing from his collegues in the mid-to-late seventies that in the near 
future we would have computers implanted in our brains that we could access 
with a thought to obtain a great enycolopedia of knowledge, calculator, and 
other software.  Blindness and deafness would be a bad memory, cured by 
mecanical implants, etc.  Those wild enthusiastic claims for the future, 
and the hopes and fears they generated surely drove cyberpunk, rather 
than the other way around -- or it seems so to me.  And as for current 
scientists rushing to realize the fiction -- I think that the 
predictions, at least the informed predictions, have actually gotten more 
conservative as the realities of the neuro-interface are realized.  

It is different when today we _have_ coclear implant devices (a 
non-neruological mechanical device) and have discovered that they do not 
help and people who were deaf from birth (because they can not learn to 
make sense of what the device allows them to  hear), that they work best 
on patients who used to be able to hear, that many call putting surgical 
implants into congenitally deaf children child abuse and lobby to oppose 
it.  That, while we do have a handful of quadraplegics with 
neuro-electrical implants in their arms and paraplegics with implants in 
their legs who are getting some benefit from these devices, it takes at 
least a year for them to learn how to use the devices in a limited way. 

Yes, I have still run into engineers who claim anything is possible, 
but they are not the doctors doing the implants.  It is one thing to imagine 
something, and another to be doing it and discovering the real limitations 
of the technology and of human neurology. 

Cyberpunk could be a metaphor for our intellectual and psychological 
interface with new technologies and the information revolution so long as 
it was part of an imagined future.  The future is here, actual interfaces 
are occuring, in a limited way, but occuring.  So the realities 
of the techonogy must influence how writers deal with the subject.

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
  

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 13:30:34 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:29:03 -0500 (EST)
From: John Noel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF - Mushrooms!
To: [log in to unmask]
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	I can't imagine growing up without reading at least one of Eleanor
Cameron's Mushroom Planet books. The "Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom
Planet" is literate and intelligent, and, most importantly, timeless. Sure,
the science is soft, but what 10 year old kid wants to read about the
boring tales of "realistic" space flight. Fun, imaginative, and challenging
to read. I highly recommend this series.

	John Noel

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 13:47:02 1995
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X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>
>Gary L. Swaty writes on 3/23:
>>You can make that the 1920's. Look at E.M. Forster's The_Machine_Stops,
>>Harcourt, Brace and Company, Inc., 1928.
>
>>This work is an early exploration of the man-machine interface gone
>>disastrously wrong. It is one of my all-time favorites story on this theme.
>
Are we moving away from "cyber" into "humans face technology"?  This seems 
to me what Forester's work addresses.  Although it is a great tale and way 
ahead of its time, the general topic opens up a plethora of sf and mainline lit.
In fact we could start in ancient Greece(maybe).  
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 13:53:22 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:53:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: elixir of life, and Brunner (Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I will resend.
Colleen

From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE:  elixir of life, and Brunner
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:13:00 UTC




 -> > ... Finally, in
 -> >the latter half of the Millennium, space arks will carry human colonists
 -> >across the interstellar gulfs to inseminate new worlds with the 
chartreuse
 -> >elixir of life."
 -> --From Daverx Miller's recent post.
 ->

I think infest is a more appropriate word than inseminate.

On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a 
work of word art than as a story.

markw

From cstu  Fri Mar 24 13:54:33 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:54:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children sf
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I reposted.
Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
Subject: children sf

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Fri Mar 24 13:54:33 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:54:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children sf
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I reposted.
Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
Subject: children sf

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 13:58:13 1995
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Date: 24 Mar 1995 13:56:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "JOAN C BIELLA" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

          Mention of the Mushroom Planet reminded me of  a couple of others 
          of the same era:  Ellen MacGregor's *Miss Pickerell goes to Mars* 
          and  "Miss Pickerell on  the  moon."  Does anybody remember them? 
          --Joan Biella                                                     
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:00:09 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:58:38 -0600
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: THE BILL
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>


>>I can not agree more. Let the readers censor what they read by not reading
>what they do not like!!! What gives anyone one the right to say what is
>right or wrong for me or anyone else.
> Porn/sex/SCIFI or any other topic is in the eye of the reader. What is
>normal for one person may be porn to the next person. Let the people decide
>what is good or bad. If censorship starts where will it end and WHO says
>what is right or wrong!
>We have enough censorship in the world now without adding more by some
>subjective method. With the religous right and liberal left who picks the
>standards?? and why and where do they get this RIGHT to think for me or
>someone else!
> Once censorship starts where does it STOP!!

>[log in to unmask]

Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 13:58:13 1995
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Date: 24 Mar 1995 13:56:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "JOAN C BIELLA" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

          Mention of the Mushroom Planet reminded me of  a couple of others 
          of the same era:  Ellen MacGregor's *Miss Pickerell goes to Mars* 
          and  "Miss Pickerell on  the  moon."  Does anybody remember them? 
          --Joan Biella                                                     
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:00:09 1995
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X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>


>>I can not agree more. Let the readers censor what they read by not reading
>what they do not like!!! What gives anyone one the right to say what is
>right or wrong for me or anyone else.
> Porn/sex/SCIFI or any other topic is in the eye of the reader. What is
>normal for one person may be porn to the next person. Let the people decide
>what is good or bad. If censorship starts where will it end and WHO says
>what is right or wrong!
>We have enough censorship in the world now without adding more by some
>subjective method. With the religous right and liberal left who picks the
>standards?? and why and where do they get this RIGHT to think for me or
>someone else!
> Once censorship starts where does it STOP!!

>[log in to unmask]

Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:02:38 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

In the area of fantasy rather than sf, the most logical is Leguin's Earthsea 
trilogy.
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:03:14 1995
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Date: 24 Mar 1995 14:01:14 EST
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE GIBSON QUESTION
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE GIBSON QUESTION

          If I understood Jonathan Laidlow correctly (please let me know if 
          I'm wrong, Jonathanÿ) he seemed to  be asking  if  the  "myth  of 
          William Gibson writing on  a typewriter" is "an image licensed by 
          Gibson". As  I remember hearing him at  a  con several years ago, 
          Gibson said that he wrote NEUROMANCER on a manual typewriter, and 
          used  Bruce Sterling  as  his technical adviser.  This especially 
          amused me because at  the time  I  had recently graduated from  a 
          manual to an electric (not electronic) and I had assumed that the 
          writer of NEUROMANCER just  *had*  to  be  a super-techieÿ (If  I 
          remember  correctly,  he  did  move  on   to  more  sophisticated 
          equipment for his later books) 
               As  for  the concept of narrative concerning techniques that 
          will eventually replace hard copy (as I'm trying to remember what 
          was said)--does the whole  idea  of hypertext fit  in  here?  I'm 
          still trying to  get  my admittedly old-fashioned mind around the 
          concept of hypertext (I'm  not  a computer person), but  it  does 
          seem to me from what very little I know about it that it might be 
          an angle worth investigating. 
               The suggestions of  past stories dealing  with  human  slash 
          machine interface are really interesting. I'm going  to  have  to 
          track down some  of  the  many  I don't remember reading. Thanks, 
          peopleÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "Migratory lifeform  with  a  tropism  for  bookstores" 
From shal  Fri Mar 24 14:17:49 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:17:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: sf for children
> 
> Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone with candidates for the list.

SF readers tend to be precocious readers, and read adult fiction early. 
My father was an sf reader, and gave me Burroughs the minute I started to 
read (I can remember my reading punctuated with calls out to my mother 
"What does T-H-O-A-T spell?" "That's not a word" "It's in this book." 
"Your father shouldn't give you those books!" etc)  I read and enjoyed a 
mixture of adult and young adult fiction.  Some specifically young adult 
fiction I remember enjoying included L'Engle's _Wrinkle in Time_ (which 
my mother _did_ approve of), and Heinlein's _Red Planet_ (and I highly 
recommend the newly released "unedited" version).  I also read lots of 
Heinlein, Burroughs (esp. the Mars series, and Pellucidar series), 
Cordwainer Smith (_Norstralia_), Simak (_City_, various short stories), 
and Bradbury (Illustrated Man, Martian Chronicals) early on.  

I am not sure I would recommend Cordwainer Smith, although I enjoyed it 
very much and I think todays kids might enjoy rediscovering him -- the 
stuff might scare their parents silly.  

Things I discovered later that I want my neice to read when she gets 
old enough include LeGuin's _The Winds Twelve Quarters_ and the _Earthsea 
Trilogy_, _The Light Princess_ by George McDonald (humorous fantasy, 
probably for the younger age groups and adults -- kids outgrow that kind of 
thing by the time they are 11 or 12 and then learn to like it again when 
they grow up), Asimov's _The Gods Themselves_ (for older kids) - 
um and I will probably think of six others the minute I send this.

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:02:38 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

In the area of fantasy rather than sf, the most logical is Leguin's Earthsea 
trilogy.
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 14:03:14 1995
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Date: 24 Mar 1995 14:01:14 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE GIBSON QUESTION
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE GIBSON QUESTION

          If I understood Jonathan Laidlow correctly (please let me know if 
          I'm wrong, Jonathanÿ) he seemed to  be asking  if  the  "myth  of 
          William Gibson writing on  a typewriter" is "an image licensed by 
          Gibson". As  I remember hearing him at  a  con several years ago, 
          Gibson said that he wrote NEUROMANCER on a manual typewriter, and 
          used  Bruce Sterling  as  his technical adviser.  This especially 
          amused me because at  the time  I  had recently graduated from  a 
          manual to an electric (not electronic) and I had assumed that the 
          writer of NEUROMANCER just  *had*  to  be  a super-techieÿ (If  I 
          remember  correctly,  he  did  move  on   to  more  sophisticated 
          equipment for his later books) 
               As  for  the concept of narrative concerning techniques that 
          will eventually replace hard copy (as I'm trying to remember what 
          was said)--does the whole  idea  of hypertext fit  in  here?  I'm 
          still trying to  get  my admittedly old-fashioned mind around the 
          concept of hypertext (I'm  not  a computer person), but  it  does 
          seem to me from what very little I know about it that it might be 
          an angle worth investigating. 
               The suggestions of  past stories dealing  with  human  slash 
          machine interface are really interesting. I'm going  to  have  to 
          track down some  of  the  many  I don't remember reading. Thanks, 
          peopleÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "Migratory lifeform  with  a  tropism  for  bookstores" 
From shal  Fri Mar 24 14:17:49 1995
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          id AA44323; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:17:49 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:17:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: sf for children
> 
> Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone with candidates for the list.

SF readers tend to be precocious readers, and read adult fiction early. 
My father was an sf reader, and gave me Burroughs the minute I started to 
read (I can remember my reading punctuated with calls out to my mother 
"What does T-H-O-A-T spell?" "That's not a word" "It's in this book." 
"Your father shouldn't give you those books!" etc)  I read and enjoyed a 
mixture of adult and young adult fiction.  Some specifically young adult 
fiction I remember enjoying included L'Engle's _Wrinkle in Time_ (which 
my mother _did_ approve of), and Heinlein's _Red Planet_ (and I highly 
recommend the newly released "unedited" version).  I also read lots of 
Heinlein, Burroughs (esp. the Mars series, and Pellucidar series), 
Cordwainer Smith (_Norstralia_), Simak (_City_, various short stories), 
and Bradbury (Illustrated Man, Martian Chronicals) early on.  

I am not sure I would recommend Cordwainer Smith, although I enjoyed it 
very much and I think todays kids might enjoy rediscovering him -- the 
stuff might scare their parents silly.  

Things I discovered later that I want my neice to read when she gets 
old enough include LeGuin's _The Winds Twelve Quarters_ and the _Earthsea 
Trilogy_, _The Light Princess_ by George McDonald (humorous fantasy, 
probably for the younger age groups and adults -- kids outgrow that kind of 
thing by the time they are 11 or 12 and then learn to like it again when 
they grow up), Asimov's _The Gods Themselves_ (for older kids) - 
um and I will probably think of six others the minute I send this.

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From cstu  Sat Mar 25 09:32:33 1995
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          id AA49526; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:32:33 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:32:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children sf (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Second time, another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I reposted.
Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
Subject: children sf

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From shal  Fri Mar 24 15:46:37 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA20748; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
> from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
> is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
> sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
> do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
> Bob

(longish post, gets round to SF eventually)

Well, one of the hidden issues here is whether the net should be treated 
the way print media are treated, or as broadcast media are treated.  
There is now nothing to stop said 10 year old from checking out sexually 
explicit materials from their public library. Most parents don't know 
that until their kids try it (speaking as someone who has been behind a 
reference desk when a parent found out). But the rule there is that 
parents are supposed to control what their kids read -- not librarians. 
Why? One reason is that if librarians had to police the collections and 
make judgements about contents they would be so overloaded with 
censorship work that they would have to close down (not unlike the net).
  
A computer is not, at this time, like a tv where channel flipping can get 
kids into anything, nor is it exactly like a library.  But it is not that 
easy to accidentally stumble on explicit material, and parents should 
carry some responsibilty for monitoring their kids.  We could make it 
harder to access that stuff -- and probably should -- but treating the 
net as if it were the same as television doesn't seem appropriate to me.

And censorship or restricted access could have a profound effect on SF.  
Probably more than other writers, they have come to depend on networks 
and electronic BBs to exchange ideas with other writers, collaborate on 
works, and interact with their publishers and agents.  It is the medium 
in which sf writers increasingly do their business.  Imagine having 
drafts sent through email censored by your net service providers, 
or BBs for writers shut down because of explicit scenes in the fiction 
-- even scenes that do not meet the current definitions of porn.  This 
has already happened on one commercial network service (this example is 
from about 2 years ago). Professional SF writers were kicked off the 
service for protesting the censorship, and others left on their own accord 
when they found out what had happened to their collegues. Now adays they 
can go elsewhere, but what happens if such restrictions are generalized?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:52:01 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:54:14 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: elixir of life, and Brunner (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this header) -Reply

markw WRITES on 3/24:

>On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a
> work of word art than as a story.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:58:30 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:00:31 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL -Reply


Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University writes on 3.24.95:

>Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the
>10-year-old  from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user
>is over 21  is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally
>as a  sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those
>who  do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
>Bob

Absolutely, Dr. Bob - I would not want my kid accessing dirty pictures off the
net - I've seen stuff downloaded  that even I blushed to see, and I'm fairly jaded
- There is no reason anyone needs to trade color S&M photos over the Net. 
Go downtown to the sex shops and BUY them like every other decent pervert,
I say.
But you are also correct, there is no good solution . . .
[log in to unmask]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 18:11:14 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:11:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Shelley Reid <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Vms-To: IN%"[log in to unmask]"
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Bob Thompson wonders

" However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective."

How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

shelley

[log in to unmask]

From shal  Fri Mar 24 14:17:49 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA44323; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:17:49 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:17:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: sf for children
> 
> Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone with candidates for the list.

SF readers tend to be precocious readers, and read adult fiction early. 
My father was an sf reader, and gave me Burroughs the minute I started to 
read (I can remember my reading punctuated with calls out to my mother 
"What does T-H-O-A-T spell?" "That's not a word" "It's in this book." 
"Your father shouldn't give you those books!" etc)  I read and enjoyed a 
mixture of adult and young adult fiction.  Some specifically young adult 
fiction I remember enjoying included L'Engle's _Wrinkle in Time_ (which 
my mother _did_ approve of), and Heinlein's _Red Planet_ (and I highly 
recommend the newly released "unedited" version).  I also read lots of 
Heinlein, Burroughs (esp. the Mars series, and Pellucidar series), 
Cordwainer Smith (_Norstralia_), Simak (_City_, various short stories), 
and Bradbury (Illustrated Man, Martian Chronicals) early on.  

I am not sure I would recommend Cordwainer Smith, although I enjoyed it 
very much and I think todays kids might enjoy rediscovering him -- the 
stuff might scare their parents silly.  

Things I discovered later that I want my neice to read when she gets 
old enough include LeGuin's _The Winds Twelve Quarters_ and the _Earthsea 
Trilogy_, _The Light Princess_ by George McDonald (humorous fantasy, 
probably for the younger age groups and adults -- kids outgrow that kind of 
thing by the time they are 11 or 12 and then learn to like it again when 
they grow up), Asimov's _The Gods Themselves_ (for older kids) - 
um and I will probably think of six others the minute I send this.

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From cstu  Sat Mar 25 09:32:33 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA49526; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:32:33 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:32:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children sf (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Second time, another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I reposted.
Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
Subject: children sf

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From shal  Fri Mar 24 15:46:37 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA20748; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
> from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
> is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
> sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
> do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
> Bob

(longish post, gets round to SF eventually)

Well, one of the hidden issues here is whether the net should be treated 
the way print media are treated, or as broadcast media are treated.  
There is now nothing to stop said 10 year old from checking out sexually 
explicit materials from their public library. Most parents don't know 
that until their kids try it (speaking as someone who has been behind a 
reference desk when a parent found out). But the rule there is that 
parents are supposed to control what their kids read -- not librarians. 
Why? One reason is that if librarians had to police the collections and 
make judgements about contents they would be so overloaded with 
censorship work that they would have to close down (not unlike the net).
  
A computer is not, at this time, like a tv where channel flipping can get 
kids into anything, nor is it exactly like a library.  But it is not that 
easy to accidentally stumble on explicit material, and parents should 
carry some responsibilty for monitoring their kids.  We could make it 
harder to access that stuff -- and probably should -- but treating the 
net as if it were the same as television doesn't seem appropriate to me.

And censorship or restricted access could have a profound effect on SF.  
Probably more than other writers, they have come to depend on networks 
and electronic BBs to exchange ideas with other writers, collaborate on 
works, and interact with their publishers and agents.  It is the medium 
in which sf writers increasingly do their business.  Imagine having 
drafts sent through email censored by your net service providers, 
or BBs for writers shut down because of explicit scenes in the fiction 
-- even scenes that do not meet the current definitions of porn.  This 
has already happened on one commercial network service (this example is 
from about 2 years ago). Professional SF writers were kicked off the 
service for protesting the censorship, and others left on their own accord 
when they found out what had happened to their collegues. Now adays they 
can go elsewhere, but what happens if such restrictions are generalized?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:52:01 1995
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X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:54:14 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: elixir of life, and Brunner (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this header) -Reply

markw WRITES on 3/24:

>On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a
> work of word art than as a story.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:58:30 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:00:31 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL -Reply


Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University writes on 3.24.95:

>Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the
>10-year-old  from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user
>is over 21  is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally
>as a  sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those
>who  do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
>Bob

Absolutely, Dr. Bob - I would not want my kid accessing dirty pictures off the
net - I've seen stuff downloaded  that even I blushed to see, and I'm fairly jaded
- There is no reason anyone needs to trade color S&M photos over the Net. 
Go downtown to the sex shops and BUY them like every other decent pervert,
I say.
But you are also correct, there is no good solution . . .
[log in to unmask]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 18:11:14 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:11:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Shelley Reid <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
To: [log in to unmask]
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Bob Thompson wonders

" However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective."

How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

shelley

[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 19:41:54 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
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Ok, let's then mention Neil R. Jones's Professor Jameson space adventure
series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:32:09 1995
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Date:         Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:25:44 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this
 header)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:27:53 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

The book CYBERSPACE describes  how scientists all working in different
areas of virtual reality, computer imaging, and other cutting edge
technology worked pretty much separately before the cyberpunks, and then
when Bill Gibson invented the term cyberspace, they realized that they
had more in common than they had thought, and started working together more.

But I think that cyberpunk is less a template for where physiology and
neurology are going, and more of a metaphor for the interactive computer
lifestyle that the explosion of things like this, and WWW represent in
everyday lives.  We may never get the neural interfaces, but a lot of
folks are discovering that they don't need them.  Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:37:16 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Children's SF - Mushrooms!
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:40:51 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

My son grew up with the EArthsea Trilogy, and at twenty, he still
rereads the Wizard of Earthsea when he needs book-comfort.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:44 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List? -Reply

Robert Thompson said

>Are we moving away from "cyber" into "humans face technology"?  >This seems 
>to me what Forester's work addresses.  Although it is a great tale and way 
>ahead of its time, the general topic opens up a plethora of sf and mainline
lit.
>In fact we could start in ancient Greece(maybe).  
>Bob
>Robert Thompson
>Department of Sociology
>Minot State University

I have re-read the story in question and I stand corrected. It is
not Cyber-punk.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:55 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Sat Mar 25 09:32:33 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:32:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children sf (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Second time, another partial distribution by LISTPROC, so I reposted.
Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:26:25 +0200
Subject: children sf

Hi Patricia --

>   I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
>   readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
>   anyone with candidates for the list.

Lloyd Alexander TIME CAT.

As about Russian and Ukrainian language authors, there are lots things
to recommend. Here are some:

Georgy Pocheptsov GOLDEN BALL (Svetovid Award 1992)
Marina and Sergey Dyachenko DOOR-KEEPER (Eurocon Award nominee 1995 for the
                                         best Ukrainian new authors).
All works of Vladislav Krapivin.
If you're interested to receive more detailed info, let me know.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From shal  Fri Mar 24 15:46:37 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
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On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
> from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
> is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
> sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
> do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
> Bob

(longish post, gets round to SF eventually)

Well, one of the hidden issues here is whether the net should be treated 
the way print media are treated, or as broadcast media are treated.  
There is now nothing to stop said 10 year old from checking out sexually 
explicit materials from their public library. Most parents don't know 
that until their kids try it (speaking as someone who has been behind a 
reference desk when a parent found out). But the rule there is that 
parents are supposed to control what their kids read -- not librarians. 
Why? One reason is that if librarians had to police the collections and 
make judgements about contents they would be so overloaded with 
censorship work that they would have to close down (not unlike the net).
  
A computer is not, at this time, like a tv where channel flipping can get 
kids into anything, nor is it exactly like a library.  But it is not that 
easy to accidentally stumble on explicit material, and parents should 
carry some responsibilty for monitoring their kids.  We could make it 
harder to access that stuff -- and probably should -- but treating the 
net as if it were the same as television doesn't seem appropriate to me.

And censorship or restricted access could have a profound effect on SF.  
Probably more than other writers, they have come to depend on networks 
and electronic BBs to exchange ideas with other writers, collaborate on 
works, and interact with their publishers and agents.  It is the medium 
in which sf writers increasingly do their business.  Imagine having 
drafts sent through email censored by your net service providers, 
or BBs for writers shut down because of explicit scenes in the fiction 
-- even scenes that do not meet the current definitions of porn.  This 
has already happened on one commercial network service (this example is 
from about 2 years ago). Professional SF writers were kicked off the 
service for protesting the censorship, and others left on their own accord 
when they found out what had happened to their collegues. Now adays they 
can go elsewhere, but what happens if such restrictions are generalized?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:52:01 1995
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From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject:  RE: elixir of life, and Brunner (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this header) -Reply

markw WRITES on 3/24:

>On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a
> work of word art than as a story.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:58:30 1995
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From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL -Reply


Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University writes on 3.24.95:

>Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the
>10-year-old  from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user
>is over 21  is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally
>as a  sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those
>who  do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
>Bob

Absolutely, Dr. Bob - I would not want my kid accessing dirty pictures off the
net - I've seen stuff downloaded  that even I blushed to see, and I'm fairly jaded
- There is no reason anyone needs to trade color S&M photos over the Net. 
Go downtown to the sex shops and BUY them like every other decent pervert,
I say.
But you are also correct, there is no good solution . . .
[log in to unmask]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 18:11:14 1995
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From: Shelley Reid <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
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Bob Thompson wonders

" However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective."

How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

shelley

[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 19:41:54 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:41:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI
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Ok, let's then mention Neil R. Jones's Professor Jameson space adventure
series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:32:09 1995
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Date:         Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:25:44 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this
 header)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:27:53 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

The book CYBERSPACE describes  how scientists all working in different
areas of virtual reality, computer imaging, and other cutting edge
technology worked pretty much separately before the cyberpunks, and then
when Bill Gibson invented the term cyberspace, they realized that they
had more in common than they had thought, and started working together more.

But I think that cyberpunk is less a template for where physiology and
neurology are going, and more of a metaphor for the interactive computer
lifestyle that the explosion of things like this, and WWW represent in
everyday lives.  We may never get the neural interfaces, but a lot of
folks are discovering that they don't need them.  Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:37:16 1995
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Date:         Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:34:12 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Children's SF - Mushrooms!
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:40:51 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

My son grew up with the EArthsea Trilogy, and at twenty, he still
rereads the Wizard of Earthsea when he needs book-comfort.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:44 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List? -Reply

Robert Thompson said

>Are we moving away from "cyber" into "humans face technology"?  >This seems 
>to me what Forester's work addresses.  Although it is a great tale and way 
>ahead of its time, the general topic opens up a plethora of sf and mainline
lit.
>In fact we could start in ancient Greece(maybe).  
>Bob
>Robert Thompson
>Department of Sociology
>Minot State University

I have re-read the story in question and I stand corrected. It is
not Cyber-punk.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:55 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:52:01 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:54:14 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: elixir of life, and Brunner (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this header) -Reply

markw WRITES on 3/24:

>On Brunner, my favourite is Man in Black.  I enjoyed Zanzibar, but more as a
> work of word art than as a story.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 15:58:30 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL -Reply


Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University writes on 3.24.95:

>Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the
>10-year-old  from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user
>is over 21  is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally
>as a  sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those
>who  do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
>Bob

Absolutely, Dr. Bob - I would not want my kid accessing dirty pictures off the
net - I've seen stuff downloaded  that even I blushed to see, and I'm fairly jaded
- There is no reason anyone needs to trade color S&M photos over the Net. 
Go downtown to the sex shops and BUY them like every other decent pervert,
I say.
But you are also correct, there is no good solution . . .
[log in to unmask]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 18:11:14 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:11:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Shelley Reid <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL
To: [log in to unmask]
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Bob Thompson wonders

" However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
is hardly effective."

How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

shelley

[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 24 19:41:54 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:41:18 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI
Lines: 5

Ok, let's then mention Neil R. Jones's Professor Jameson space adventure
series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:32:09 1995
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Date:         Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:25:44 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism again(Delete if you have seen this
 header)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:27:53 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

The book CYBERSPACE describes  how scientists all working in different
areas of virtual reality, computer imaging, and other cutting edge
technology worked pretty much separately before the cyberpunks, and then
when Bill Gibson invented the term cyberspace, they realized that they
had more in common than they had thought, and started working together more.

But I think that cyberpunk is less a template for where physiology and
neurology are going, and more of a metaphor for the interactive computer
lifestyle that the explosion of things like this, and WWW represent in
everyday lives.  We may never get the neural interfaces, but a lot of
folks are discovering that they don't need them.  Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 00:37:16 1995
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Date:         Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:34:12 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Children's SF - Mushrooms!
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:40:51 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

My son grew up with the EArthsea Trilogy, and at twenty, he still
rereads the Wizard of Earthsea when he needs book-comfort.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:44 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List? -Reply

Robert Thompson said

>Are we moving away from "cyber" into "humans face technology"?  >This seems 
>to me what Forester's work addresses.  Although it is a great tale and way 
>ahead of its time, the general topic opens up a plethora of sf and mainline
lit.
>In fact we could start in ancient Greece(maybe).  
>Bob
>Robert Thompson
>Department of Sociology
>Minot State University

I have re-read the story in question and I stand corrected. It is
not Cyber-punk.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 01:49:55 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty
From cstu  Sat Mar 25 10:16:35 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:16:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CHILDREN'S SF from Jon Biella (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Sorry for the delay, LISTPROC is at it again.
Colleen

Date: 24 Mar 1995 13:56:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

          Mention of the Mushroom Planet reminded me of  a couple of others 
          of the same era:  Ellen MacGregor's *Miss Pickerell goes to Mars* 
          and  "Miss Pickerell on  the  moon."  Does anybody remember them? 
          --Joan Biella                                                     


From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:11:41 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:11:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:sf for children (fwd) (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by colleen.

From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

In the area of fantasy rather than sf, the most logical is Leguin's Earthsea 
trilogy.
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.



From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:22:08 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:22:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL -Reply (Delete if you have seen this header)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by colleen.

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:00:31 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:  Re: THE BILL -Reply


Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University writes on 3.24.95:

>Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the
>10-year-old  from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user
>is over 21  is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally
>as a  sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those
>who  do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
>Bob

Absolutely, Dr. Bob - I would not want my kid accessing dirty pictures off the
net - I've seen stuff downloaded  that even I blushed to see, and I'm fairly jaded
- There is no reason anyone needs to trade color S&M photos over the Net. 
Go downtown to the sex shops and BUY them like every other decent pervert,
I say.
But you are also correct, there is no good solution . . .
[log in to unmask]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:23:32 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:23:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILREN'S SCI-FI (Delete if you have seen this heading)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:41:18 +0200
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Ok, let's then mention Neil R. Jones's Professor Jameson space adventure
series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:25:17 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:25:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by colleen.

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL

On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
> from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
> is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
> sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
> do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
> Bob

(longish post, gets round to SF eventually)

Well, one of the hidden issues here is whether the net should be treated 
the way print media are treated, or as broadcast media are treated.  
There is now nothing to stop said 10 year old from checking out sexually 
explicit materials from their public library. Most parents don't know 
that until their kids try it (speaking as someone who has been behind a 
reference desk when a parent found out). But the rule there is that 
parents are supposed to control what their kids read -- not librarians. 
Why? One reason is that if librarians had to police the collections and 
make judgements about contents they would be so overloaded with 
censorship work that they would have to close down (not unlike the net).
  
A computer is not, at this time, like a tv where channel flipping can get 
kids into anything, nor is it exactly like a library.  But it is not that 
easy to accidentally stumble on explicit material, and parents should 
carry some responsibilty for monitoring their kids.  We could make it 
harder to access that stuff -- and probably should -- but treating the 
net as if it were the same as television doesn't seem appropriate to me.

And censorship or restricted access could have a profound effect on SF.  
Probably more than other writers, they have come to depend on networks 
and electronic BBs to exchange ideas with other writers, collaborate on 
works, and interact with their publishers and agents.  It is the medium 
in which sf writers increasingly do their business.  Imagine having 
drafts sent through email censored by your net service providers, 
or BBs for writers shut down because of explicit scenes in the fiction 
-- even scenes that do not meet the current definitions of porn.  This 
has already happened on one commercial network service (this example is 
from about 2 years ago). Professional SF writers were kicked off the 
service for protesting the censorship, and others left on their own accord 
when they found out what had happened to their collegues. Now adays they 
can go elsewhere, but what happens if such restrictions are generalized?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]




From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:25:17 1995
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          id AA16884; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:25:17 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:25:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by colleen.

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL

On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:

> Absolutely THE question.  However, is there a way of keeping the 10-year-old 
> from accessing graphically sexual materials?  Asking if the user is over 21 
> is hardly effective.  Actually, I don't personally (or professionally as a 
> sociologist) believe this will do life-long harm to the child, but those who 
> do will sweep the net with their own censorship if no solution is found.
> Bob

(longish post, gets round to SF eventually)

Well, one of the hidden issues here is whether the net should be treated 
the way print media are treated, or as broadcast media are treated.  
There is now nothing to stop said 10 year old from checking out sexually 
explicit materials from their public library. Most parents don't know 
that until their kids try it (speaking as someone who has been behind a 
reference desk when a parent found out). But the rule there is that 
parents are supposed to control what their kids read -- not librarians. 
Why? One reason is that if librarians had to police the collections and 
make judgements about contents they would be so overloaded with 
censorship work that they would have to close down (not unlike the net).
  
A computer is not, at this time, like a tv where channel flipping can get 
kids into anything, nor is it exactly like a library.  But it is not that 
easy to accidentally stumble on explicit material, and parents should 
carry some responsibilty for monitoring their kids.  We could make it 
harder to access that stuff -- and probably should -- but treating the 
net as if it were the same as television doesn't seem appropriate to me.

And censorship or restricted access could have a profound effect on SF.  
Probably more than other writers, they have come to depend on networks 
and electronic BBs to exchange ideas with other writers, collaborate on 
works, and interact with their publishers and agents.  It is the medium 
in which sf writers increasingly do their business.  Imagine having 
drafts sent through email censored by your net service providers, 
or BBs for writers shut down because of explicit scenes in the fiction 
-- even scenes that do not meet the current definitions of porn.  This 
has already happened on one commercial network service (this example is 
from about 2 years ago). Professional SF writers were kicked off the 
service for protesting the censorship, and others left on their own accord 
when they found out what had happened to their collegues. Now adays they 
can go elsewhere, but what happens if such restrictions are generalized?

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]



From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:39:42 1995
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          id AA12926; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:39:42 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:39:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF list -Reply (Delete if you have seen this heading)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by colleen

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF List? -Reply

Robert Thompson said

>Are we moving away from "cyber" into "humans face technology"?  >This seems 
>to me what Forester's work addresses.  Although it is a great tale and way 
>ahead of its time, the general topic opens up a plethora of sf and mainline
lit.
>In fact we could start in ancient Greece(maybe).  
>Bob
>Robert Thompson
>Department of Sociology
>Minot State University

I have re-read the story in question and I stand corrected. It is
not Cyber-punk.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty


From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:41:04 1995
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          id AA09649; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:04 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen,

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:42:30 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA29644; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:42:30 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:42:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL by Matthew S. Hartman (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:31:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL



Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Shelley Reid wrote:

> How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
> materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
> cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
> kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
> the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
> Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
> much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
> spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
> don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

	Yes, I would say that graphic material is more difficult to 
access through the net, because you have to have to know what you are 
doing and actively seek it out.  (But maybe that's where the 10-year-olds 
have an edge over the rest of us.)  The media has really sensationalized 
this issue and played it way out of proportion.  I would be more afraid 
of MTV than cyberspace.
	matt


From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:41:04 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA09649; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:04 -0500
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Reposted by Colleen,

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Sat Mar 25 13:42:30 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:42:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL by Matthew S. Hartman (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:31:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL



Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Shelley Reid wrote:

> How do parents *currently* keep their 10-year-olds from accessing such
> materials (from books at the library, magazines the parents subscribe to,
> cable tv at friends' houses, video games at the mall, comments by older
> kids at school, etc.)??  I can understand (though maybe not agree with)
> the argument that taxpayer money shouldn't be used to Bring That Filth
> Into My Home, but don't see why sexual materials in cyberspace are that
> much more dangerous/corrupting/accessible than the ones in all the other
> spaces we inhabit....except that they're in a medium that some parents
> don't understand and are so more afraid of than the others.

	Yes, I would say that graphic material is more difficult to 
access through the net, because you have to have to know what you are 
doing and actively seek it out.  (But maybe that's where the 10-year-olds 
have an edge over the rest of us.)  The media has really sensationalized 
this issue and played it way out of proportion.  I would be more afraid 
of MTV than cyberspace.
	matt


From @LINK-M.MUC.DE:[log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 15:33:32 1995
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Have you tried posting your question on the SFLIT forum on CompuServe?


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
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From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 14:31:01 1995
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Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA
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>On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, SINYA B SCHAEFFER wrote:
>
>> I posted the feminist utopia question on the Feminist SF list and here
***** NOTES from Stephen Sowle (SSOWLE @ KENTNET) at 3/25/95 1:26p
Could someone post information about how to subscribe to the Feminist SF 
list?  Thanks!.

Steve Sowle
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 14:31:01 1995
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Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA
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>On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, SINYA B SCHAEFFER wrote:
>
>> I posted the feminist utopia question on the Feminist SF list and here
***** NOTES from Stephen Sowle (SSOWLE @ KENTNET) at 3/25/95 1:26p
Could someone post information about how to subscribe to the Feminist SF 
list?  Thanks!.

Steve Sowle
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 20:18:19 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:06:05 +22310826 (CST)
From: "Dr. Robert Thompson A167 857-3245" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: the 10 year-old-question
To: [log in to unmask]
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How can we avoid censorship of the net?
One solution may present itself.  Having stumbled onto (ok! I was curious)
the X-rated graphics, I've found that horney people all over the world
seem to raid these sites to the extent that they are quickly overcome with
traffic.  I noticed that one of the larger general servers had banned all
adult materials when the anonymous servers tied up the entire area.  So,
one thing that may make any kind of restrictions unnecessary is that free
porn is not profitable, and its extreme popularity may make it
"counterproductive."  (I always wanted to use that word when it really
meant something!)

Bo

From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 20:36:22 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:18:38 +22310826 (CST)
From: "Dr. Robert Thompson A167 857-3245" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I'd like to ask a question pertaining to three recent topics: cyberspace,
utopias, and net control.  

The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is a
"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
as it is to the underground.  

Any thoughts out there?

Bob


From [log in to unmask]  Sat Mar 25 20:36:22 1995
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Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:18:38 +22310826 (CST)
From: "Dr. Robert Thompson A167 857-3245" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I'd like to ask a question pertaining to three recent topics: cyberspace,
utopias, and net control.  

The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is a
"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
as it is to the underground.  

Any thoughts out there?

Bob

From cstu  Sun Mar 26 11:43:13 1995
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 11:43:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:27:00 -0600
From: Stephen Sowle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA

>On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, SINYA B SCHAEFFER wrote:
>
>> I posted the feminist utopia question on the Feminist SF list and here
***** NOTES from Stephen Sowle (SSOWLE @ KENTNET) at 3/25/95 1:26p
Could someone post information about how to subscribe to the Feminist SF 
list?  Thanks!.

Steve Sowle
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 26 11:53:26 1995
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 11:53:25 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Help finding story

back in the 70's, I read two stories I would like to find again.
One is about robots and society, where robots and robotics are assigned the
tasks of doing anything and (eventually everything) that can be harmful to man
kind, either individually or on the whole. All sorts of laws are enacted
which robots must enforce - all to prevent humans from 'hurting' themselves,
and all for 'their own good'. No cooking, no working, driving, running,
jogging, or making love; someone may suffer a physical injury during any of
these, plus more.

The other one is a story about a family being relocated from one sphere to
another. The father was a workman on them or something, and a new sphere was
being built. There was also, I believe, a section of the story with them
lookiing for a way out of the sphere for some reason or other. The Star Trek
Next Generation episode about the Deisan Sphere (the one Scotty returns in)
was, I believe, taken from that idea.

Thanks in advance for any help. If you want, e-mail me directly at;
[log in to unmask]

And a note to the person who posted, or cross posted, that message about a lis
t being closed for censorship;
If you cannot tell the difference between garbage and human anatomy, you
shouldn't have access to anything more than 'G' rated material.
You said something like 'doors closed and lights off before they got below
the waste.' -Waste- (which you used in referring to peoples bodies) is
garbage, and thrown out - it is NOT part of human anatomy. A -waist- is.
If it were a simple typo, I would have said nothing - they happen to
everybody. But that was no typo. Perhaps you had better hit the English books
more and the 'net less for a while.


From [log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 26 11:53:26 1995
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	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA069276805; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 11:53:25 -0500
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 11:53:25 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Help finding story

back in the 70's, I read two stories I would like to find again.
One is about robots and society, where robots and robotics are assigned the
tasks of doing anything and (eventually everything) that can be harmful to man
kind, either individually or on the whole. All sorts of laws are enacted
which robots must enforce - all to prevent humans from 'hurting' themselves,
and all for 'their own good'. No cooking, no working, driving, running,
jogging, or making love; someone may suffer a physical injury during any of
these, plus more.

The other one is a story about a family being relocated from one sphere to
another. The father was a workman on them or something, and a new sphere was
being built. There was also, I believe, a section of the story with them
lookiing for a way out of the sphere for some reason or other. The Star Trek
Next Generation episode about the Deisan Sphere (the one Scotty returns in)
was, I believe, taken from that idea.

Thanks in advance for any help. If you want, e-mail me directly at;
[log in to unmask]

And a note to the person who posted, or cross posted, that message about a lis
t being closed for censorship;
If you cannot tell the difference between garbage and human anatomy, you
shouldn't have access to anything more than 'G' rated material.
You said something like 'doors closed and lights off before they got below
the waste.' -Waste- (which you used in referring to peoples bodies) is
garbage, and thrown out - it is NOT part of human anatomy. A -waist- is.
If it were a simple typo, I would have said nothing - they happen to
everybody. But that was no typo. Perhaps you had better hit the English books
more and the 'net less for a while.

From [log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 26 19:17:08 1995
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 19:17:06 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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The books I most enjoyed as a youngster were Lloyd Alexander's Taran 
Wanderer five book series, Narnia series by CS Lewis, The Hobbit, and
a book whose title escapes me (helpful, I know!).

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._

On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Again, my apologies, LISTPROC is being very cranky today.  This is 
> re-posted as only part of the list recieved the message.
> Colleen
> 
> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: sf for children
> 
> Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone with candidates for the list.
> Please send your replies to me and I will consolodate the information and
> post to the list.
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Patricia Altner
> Information Seekers
> [log in to unmask]                           
> 
> 



From cstu  Sun Mar 26 21:34:43 1995
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 21:34:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Re-reposted by Colleen,

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:49:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI

Joan Biella's mention of the Miss Pickerell books brings back fond
memories. I loved them.

Also I liked the Winston SF series.

  The Star seekers by Milton Lesser -- an excellent coming of age story.
   Vault of the ages by Poul Anderson -- coming of age in the post
neuclear war era.
   Mists of Dawn by Chad Oliver  -- time travel/coming of age at time's dawn
   Islands in the Sky by Arthur C. Clarke  -- Life in a low orbit space statio
n
   Find the Feathered Serpent by Evan Hunter -- Time travel to the ancient
Mayans
   Battle on Mercury by Erik Van Lhin -- a fight for survival against a great
solar storm
[end Winston]

   Also excellent is Ark of Venus by Clyde B. Clason. [As a side
note, the only other thing this writer ever produced was a How to
manual for slide rules.]

One more author not to be omitted is Zenna Henderson and her
stories of "The People." These short stories and novelets, while not 
strictly Juvenile are suitable for advanced readers in the target group.
If there is a problem, it would be reading level/vocabulary not content.
I read them in grade school.

I also loved the Heinlein juveniles previously mentioned.

Additionally I should mention that 
Time for the Stars is by Heinlein not Norton as specified in
Stephen Goldstein's post of March 24. I double checked my Andre
Norton bibliography just in case of a duplicate title. (She could have
done an antology by that title since the bibliography came out.)
  [schlobin, Roger C., Andre Norton a primary and secondary
bibliography, G.K. Hall, Boston 1980.]

Gary

Gary L. Swaty



From cstu  Sun Mar 26 21:36:20 1995
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 21:36:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: (Deleted this is you have seen this lack of heading) :-)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:18:38 +22310826 (CST)
From: "Dr. Robert Thompson A167 857-3245" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 

I'd like to ask a question pertaining to three recent topics: cyberspace,
utopias, and net control.  

The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is a
"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
as it is to the underground.  

Any thoughts out there?

Bob



From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 26 22:24:02 1995
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Date:         Sun, 26 Mar 95 22:22:04 EST
From: "Camille]" <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen
 this) (fwd)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 26 Mar 1995 21:36:51 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Gary--oh, ye of the Norton bibliography!  I read a book of Nortons when
I was a kid, about a boy in a post-nuclear war America.  It had A.D. 1999
in the title at the time, but I think it was rereleased later with a
new title.  I'd like to find it, but I don't have enough to go on--
are there enough clues here for you to help me out with a current title?

Thanks
Camille

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Sun Mar 26 22:34:15 1995
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Date:         Sun, 26 Mar 95 22:25:01 EST
From: "Camille]" <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: (Deleted this is you have seen this lack of heading) :-)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Sun, 26 Mar 1995 21:39:19 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

      I really liked Trouble, but I never thought of considering it
utopian, because the real world she lived in was far from idealized,
and the virtual space was more outlaw than utopian for most of the
book.  At the end, we know Trouble has definite ideas about how to
run the underground virtual space, but she does so in uneasy balance
with the powers that be.  And we don't know really what the town will
become over time with Trouble and her Friends in charge.

To me the interesting thing about the book is Scott's vision of net
control and syscops.  The idea that as long as the net was an interesting
techno-toy, folks could do what they wanted, but that as soon as business

decides it is actually a useful communications tool the folks that set up
camp there in the first place have to be moved out.  It is reminiscent
of the notice GEnie service sent out when they raised their rates,
essentially saying that with higher rates the net-scum who schmoozed for
hours at Basic would go away, and only the folks who could afford to pay
higher prices would stay--a better class of citizen.

I kind of like being netscum, and I'm not at all sure I like it turning
into something tidy and regulated.  I don't like a lot of what goes on
here, but then, I don't like a lot of what goes on in West Philly either,

but I stay because the little edge keeps me sharp, in both places.

Camille
From @gps1.leeds.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 03:27:28 1995
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From: Steven French <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: University of Leeds
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 20:43:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
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There was a recent discussion of 'Cyberspace' (the book), with particular 
reference to the Harraway articel, on Cybermind.
Cheers,
Steven French

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 06:00:58 1995
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From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Brunner correction
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:00:00 UTC
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You are quite right.  It is Traveller In Black.  My memory is hopeless, 
which is sometime an embarrassment, (as now), but can be a boon.  It means I 
can re-read favourite books and still be surprised by the ending!  Anyway, 
thanx for the correction, I'm glad someone had an inkling of what I was 
talking about.  Now, where was I sending this...

[log in to unmask]

 ----------

 -> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 -> Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
 -> Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
 -> [log in to unmask]
 ->
 -> 
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 06:11:36 1995
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Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:02:23 -0500

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.

From @gps1.leeds.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 03:27:28 1995
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From: Steven French <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: University of Leeds
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 20:43:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
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There was a recent discussion of 'Cyberspace' (the book), with particular 
reference to the Harraway articel, on Cybermind.
Cheers,
Steven French

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 06:00:58 1995
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From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Brunner correction
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:00:00 UTC
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You are quite right.  It is Traveller In Black.  My memory is hopeless, 
which is sometime an embarrassment, (as now), but can be a boon.  It means I 
can re-read favourite books and still be surprised by the ending!  Anyway, 
thanx for the correction, I'm glad someone had an inkling of what I was 
talking about.  Now, where was I sending this...

[log in to unmask]

 ----------

 -> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 -> Mark! Is "man in black" part of a larger book, anthology, maybe?  "The
 -> Compleat Traveller in Black"?  (I can't find a citation for this.)
 -> [log in to unmask]
 ->
 -> 
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 06:11:36 1995
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          Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:11:23 GMT
Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:02:23 -0500

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 06:11:36 1995
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Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:02:23 -0500

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 07:00:43 1995
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From: Mark Woolrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 12:59:00 UTC
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Seeing Stephanie mention Asimov's The Gods Themselves reminded me of a whole 
flood or SF I read as a kid and which may have been partially responsible 
for turning me away from the arts to the sciences.  Several follow but in no 
particular order.

Asimov's Foundation Trilogy - after first hearing the BBC radio version.
Any of Bradbury's short story collections, but especially The Martian 
Chronicles.
Any and all A.E.Van Vogt, esp. Children of Tommorrow + Book of Ptath.
Christopher Priest's Inverted World.
H.G Wells' short stories (horror and SF).
Kraken Wakes by John Wyndham.
Space Family Robinson (?)  by Heinelen.
The British SF magazines Science Fiction Monthly and the short-lived Vortex 
which brought new authors to my teenage attention.

Mmmm, nostalgia.

[log in to unmask]
 ----------

From cstu  Mon Mar 27 07:35:33 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 07:35:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

From: Steven French <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 20:43:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk and postmodernism

There was a recent discussion of 'Cyberspace' (the book), with particular 
reference to the Harraway articel, on Cybermind.
Cheers,
Steven French


From cstu  Mon Mar 27 07:36:16 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 07:36:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children again 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.


From cstu  Mon Mar 27 07:36:16 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 07:36:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children again 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 07:47:48 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 13:47:17 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Colleen Stumbaugh" at Mar 24, 95 01:17:23 pm
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> 
> 
> I am not sure how you feel about Fantasy, and if it will be adequate for 
> your needs, but I read the Xanth series when I was 10. While I didn't 
> understand all of the adult complexities and subtleties, I thoroughly 
> enjoyed the over-the-top characterizations, the puns and the fantastic 
> settings. There are many aspects of these books that I feel can be 
> enjoyed and comprehended by pre-teens.
> 
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
My daughter read a couple of Xanth books when she was 12 and thought
they were great. At 14 she thought they were childish. This seems a
pretty accurate summary! 

For more children's SF add Diana Wynne Jones (A TALE OF TIME CITY, 
ARCHER'S GOON, THE
HOMEWARD BOUNDERS, etc. (also her fantasy such as WITCH WORLD etc which can
be read as alternate-world sf); John Christopher ("Tripods" trilogy - THE 
WHITE MOUNTAINS, THE CITY OF GOLD AND LEAD and the other one which is probably
THE TRIPODS:-)), anything by Louise Lawrence: Ann halam's "Daymaker" trilogy
(THE DAYMAKER; TRANSFORMATIONS; THE SKYBREAKER: various novels by William
Sleator (eg STRANGE ATTRACTOR, DUPLICATE). Susan Cooper has a fantasy/sf crossover
called BOGGART. Judy Bloom has a novel set on the moon the title of
which escapes me but is a pun on the word "atmosphere".

Adult books which I've recommended for that age group include Asimov's
robot books, James White's "Sector General" and John Wyndham's THE CHRYSALIDS.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 07:47:48 1995
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          Mon, 27 Mar 1995 13:47:22 +0100
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 13:47:17 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Colleen Stumbaugh" at Mar 24, 95 01:17:23 pm
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> 
> 
> I am not sure how you feel about Fantasy, and if it will be adequate for 
> your needs, but I read the Xanth series when I was 10. While I didn't 
> understand all of the adult complexities and subtleties, I thoroughly 
> enjoyed the over-the-top characterizations, the puns and the fantastic 
> settings. There are many aspects of these books that I feel can be 
> enjoyed and comprehended by pre-teens.
> 
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
My daughter read a couple of Xanth books when she was 12 and thought
they were great. At 14 she thought they were childish. This seems a
pretty accurate summary! 

For more children's SF add Diana Wynne Jones (A TALE OF TIME CITY, 
ARCHER'S GOON, THE
HOMEWARD BOUNDERS, etc. (also her fantasy such as WITCH WORLD etc which can
be read as alternate-world sf); John Christopher ("Tripods" trilogy - THE 
WHITE MOUNTAINS, THE CITY OF GOLD AND LEAD and the other one which is probably
THE TRIPODS:-)), anything by Louise Lawrence: Ann halam's "Daymaker" trilogy
(THE DAYMAKER; TRANSFORMATIONS; THE SKYBREAKER: various novels by William
Sleator (eg STRANGE ATTRACTOR, DUPLICATE). Susan Cooper has a fantasy/sf crossover
called BOGGART. Judy Bloom has a novel set on the moon the title of
which escapes me but is a pun on the word "atmosphere".

Adult books which I've recommended for that age group include Asimov's
robot books, James White's "Sector General" and John Wyndham's THE CHRYSALIDS.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 07:49:50 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 27 Mar 1995 07:50:07 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE STORY INFO REQUEST

          GFeid asked about  a  story  in  which robots  did EVERYTHING for 
          humans. Sounds like "With Folded Hands"--the author off  the  top 
          of  my head is  Jack Williamson (don't have access to  my library 
          just  now,  but  the  name  came  to  mind along with  the title. 
          Somebody will correct me quickly if I'm wrong. The story has been 
          anthologized many times. The  other  story doesn't sound  at  all 
          familiar, but  I'd also like to know what  it  is  if someone out 
          there does recognize it. 
               BTW, typos DO happen, incl. some  that sound suspicious. I'm 
          a champion at what  a friend referred to  as "creative spelling", 
          and  even  with  a computer I've  been known  to  let  slip  some 
          dooziesÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "I'm out  of  bed and dressed. What more do  you want?" 

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 07:58:22 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 22:01:55 +1000 (EST)
From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header) 
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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I recommend "So you want to be a Wizard" by DIane Duane, and also by the 
same author, "Deep Wizardry" and "High Wizardry."  Also "The Hounds of 
the Morrigan" by Pat O'Shea.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain


From cstu  Mon Mar 27 08:20:16 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:20:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children again (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Re-reposted by Colleen

Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 11:07:31 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: sf for children again

When I was younger I read all kinds of SF - Ursula le Guin was a particular fav
ourite, as was Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. I don't care that it
 is strictly not SF. Also, zillions of books by Douglas Hill - Galactic Warlord
 etc. I remember Harry Harrison's The Men from PIG and ROBOT and Spaceship Medi
c quite fondly. I never liked Asimov, but my all time classics were Anne MCCaff
rey's Dragon-books. Especially the early ones. I know they could be classified
as Science-fantasy, but I loved them. Strangely enough, I remember reading a bo
ok on feminist genre fiction which slagged off Anne McCaffrey, does anyone know
 the book or any thoughts?
I shall reply to the postmodern/cyberpunk questions I keep raising later in the
 week when I have more time. Bye!
Jonathan Laidlow, University of Birmingham.



From cstu  Mon Mar 27 08:27:06 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:27:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd) (Delete if you have seen this header)
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Reposted by Colleen.

From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd)

> 
> 
> I am not sure how you feel about Fantasy, and if it will be adequate for 
> your needs, but I read the Xanth series when I was 10. While I didn't 
> understand all of the adult complexities and subtleties, I thoroughly 
> enjoyed the over-the-top characterizations, the puns and the fantastic 
> settings. There are many aspects of these books that I feel can be 
> enjoyed and comprehended by pre-teens.
> 
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
My daughter read a couple of Xanth books when she was 12 and thought
they were great. At 14 she thought they were childish. This seems a
pretty accurate summary! 

For more children's SF add Diana Wynne Jones (A TALE OF TIME CITY, 
ARCHER'S GOON, THE
HOMEWARD BOUNDERS, etc. (also her fantasy such as WITCH WORLD etc which can
be read as alternate-world sf); John Christopher ("Tripods" trilogy - THE 
WHITE MOUNTAINS, THE CITY OF GOLD AND LEAD and the other one which is probably
THE TRIPODS:-)), anything by Louise Lawrence: Ann halam's "Daymaker" trilogy
(THE DAYMAKER; TRANSFORMATIONS; THE SKYBREAKER: various novels by William
Sleator (eg STRANGE ATTRACTOR, DUPLICATE). Susan Cooper has a fantasy/sf crossover
called BOGGART. Judy Bloom has a novel set on the moon the title of
which escapes me but is a pun on the word "atmosphere".

Adult books which I've recommended for that age group include Asimov's
robot books, James White's "Sector General" and John Wyndham's THE CHRYSALIDS.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 08:30:16 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:25:39 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)

Oops!  When I mentioned that Time for the Stars by Andre Norton was one of my
first SF books I read as a kid I was incorrect as Gary Swaty mentioned.  Sorry
about that.  I meant The Stars Are Ours by Norton.  It was the first sf I read
in about 4th grade and I've been reading sf and fantasy ever since.

Steven Goldstein

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 08:44:10 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:39:40 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen

To the person inquring about an Andre Norton book involving a post-nuclear
1999 world --   I think the book was published under two different names,
the more well-known one something like Daybreak 1999.

Steven Goldstein

(There!  I'm not a complete ignoramus after all.  And this is from memory.)



From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 08:44:10 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:39:40 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen

To the person inquring about an Andre Norton book involving a post-nuclear
1999 world --   I think the book was published under two different names,
the more well-known one something like Daybreak 1999.

Steven Goldstein

(There!  I'm not a complete ignoramus after all.  And this is from memory.)



From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 08:54:13 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:56:11 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: sf for children  -Reply

Stephanie Hall @loc.gov writes:
 
> My father was an sf reader, and gave me Burroughs the minute I started to 
>read ... I read and enjoyed a  mixture of adult and young adult fiction.  Some
>specifically young adult  fiction I remember enjoying included L'Engle's
>_Wrinkle in Time_ (which  my mother _did_ approve of), and Heinlein's _Red
>Planet_ (and I highly  recommend the newly released "unedited" version).  I
>also read lots of  Heinlein, Burroughs (esp. the Mars series, and Pellucidar
>series),  Cordwainer Smith (_Norstralia_), Simak (_City_, various short
>stories),  and Bradbury (Illustrated Man, Martian Chronicals) . . ."

Stephanie --
Wow, same here - I have noticed among those of us women who really like
SCI-FI, we got the bug from our fathers, fathers who started giving us that stuff
to read as soon as they thought we could understand it ( or sometimes
before.) Dad loved Arthur C Clarke, and he made me read them well before I
got the different levels of meaning. I wonder if it's the daughter-appropriate
version of tossing a football around; Dads expressing affection by sharing a
hobby?
Add to the list above the first few Asimov robot detective stories (three laws of
robitics, positronic brains, etc.)  I just ate those up. 

Christina Noll, also at LOC.
([log in to unmask])
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



From cstu  Mon Mar 27 10:00:06 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:00:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this before)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 08:39:40 -0500
From: Steven Goldstein <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen

To the person inquring about an Andre Norton book involving a post-nuclear
1999 world --   I think the book was published under two different names,
the more well-known one something like Daybreak 1999.

Steven Goldstein

(There!  I'm not a complete ignoramus after all.  And this is from memory.)




From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 10:10:30 1995
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Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95  10:13:22 EST
From: Bob Roehm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen th
In-Reply-To:  note of 03/27/95 10:07
To: "SF & Fantasy Discussion Forum" <[log in to unmask]>

Office of Collection Management
Ekstrom Library, Univ of Louisville

People are probably rushing to their shelves all other the world about this,
but the title of the Andre Norton book that we've been confused about is
actually Star Man's Son in its original edition. Ace reprinted it under the
title Daybreak 2250 A.D., probably the edition that most of us read. I'm not
sure which is its title in its current edition.

Robert A. Roehm
Collection Mgmt., Ekstrom Library
Univ of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292
[log in to unmask] - (502)852-8715

From cstu  Mon Mar 27 10:29:22 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
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review sf-lit


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 10:32:00 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:34:19 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL

Everyyone discussing this thread:

The materials I have seen on the Net are way beyond the Playboy/Penthouse
type of pictures - if a 10 year old sees nudie pictures of some empty-headed
20-year-old spreading her legs for a camera, the only damage it does is to give
him false hope about what women actually look like sans clothing - but there
is easy access to materials on the Net with include beastiality, torture of
women, and other disturbing permutations on erotica.  I would hate for that to
give kids the idea that sex with horses, or using metal nipple-clamps, or
whatever, are what most people normally do. 

Additionally, sale of hardcopy erotica requires a salesclerk to sell the
materials, and as someone who sold plenty of Playboys and Penthouses, I
never let children purchase those materials.

Let's not forget that it is entirely possible for a child's technical expertise in
net-surfing to far out-distance his/her emotional or sexual maturity.
I'm off my soap-box, now, I swear . . .

[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Mon Mar 27 11:36:00 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 11:35:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Critical Mass Achieved!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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I just did a review of our subscribers and we are at 338!  Thank you all 
for spreading the word about our list.  As we grow further, I hope that 
the LISTPROC will become more reliable about sending out messages and am 
grateful to all of you for putting up with the (possibly) repeative 
sendings of messages by yours truly.  
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 13:06:09 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 12:46:07 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: Brunner correction -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[log in to unmask], writes:
>You are quite right.  It is Traveller In Black.  My memory is hopeless,  which
>is sometime an embarrassment, (as now), but can be a boon.  It means I 
>can re-read favourite books and still be surprised by the ending! 

I, too, have gotten to the point where I can re-read books and still be surprised
by the ending.  Alas, now that we have identified the book by its correct title, I
still can't get it here at loc; it is out of the collection for some reason.
Thanks for the Brunner suggestion -- I'll have to haunt the used
bookstores--------

 [log in to unmask]




From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 13:24:27 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 11:23:43 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Half-remembered short story

You-all who amaze me with your recall of long-ago-read books, maybe
you could help me identify a story I read in the summer of 1975 as a
lonely kid in a new town, hiding in the sf corner of the public library.  As I
remember it:

The world's scientists had built the world's largest computer, with the
anticipation that it could solve any problem.  Armies of programmers had
been working for months, loading in data on everything known to
mankind.  Among them was one woman who, in addition to her assigned
data loading, was teaching the computer to say 'please' and 'thank you',
and was also keying in poetry.  When the day finally came that all data
was loaded, the scientists asked THE question (probably, 'What is the
meaning of life?') and anxiously awaited the computer's response.  After
a period of humming and clicking, the computer printed out the answer ...
a quotation from Shakespeare.

This story really tickled me, and I'd like to find it again.  Can anyone help?

Ardis Parshall
Retro Link Associates
MARC Training/Quality Coordinator
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 13:48:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 19:24:02 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: sf for children
Lines: 10

>
>   Seeing Stephanie mention Asimov's The Gods Themselves reminded me of a whole
>   flood or SF I read as a kid and which may have been partially responsible
>   for turning me away from the arts to the sciences.  Several follow but in no
>   particular order.

Why not to mention then Asimov's Lucky Star series?

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 13:48:03 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 19:18:58 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty
Lines: 12

Camille --

>   Gary--oh, ye of the Norton bibliography!  I read a book of Nortons when
>   I was a kid, about a boy in a post-nuclear war America.  It had A.D. 1999
>   in the title at the time, but I think it was rereleased later with a
>   new title.  I'd like to find it, but I don't have enough to go on--
>   are there enough clues here for you to help me out with a current title?

Try to look through John Ween's bibliography.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 13:53:48 1995
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Date: 27 Mar 1995 13:53:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

            On the subject of children's SF; around 1955, at  9  or 10 yrs. 
          old I started with Heinlein because that was mostly what my local 
          branch library had in the children's section.I'd recommend almost 
          any  of   his  juveniles  except  PODKAYNE.  Also  found  MARTIAN 
          CHRONICLES, but Asimov, et  al. were  in  the "young adults" area 
          (13 and up) In that area I remember the Norton as STAR MAN'S SON. 
          There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't 
          for  the  life  of  me remember the title. Also  more  RAH  (HAVE 
          SPACESUIT, WILL TRAVEL,  got  me  reading  THE TEMPEST; I'd  also 
          recommend TIME  FOR  THE STARS  and  THE  STAR BEAST), Bradbury's 
          FARENHEIT 451, Asimov's I, ROBOT, CAVES  OF  STEEL and NAKED SUN, 
          the collection EARTH IS  ROOM ENOUGH, and  a novel I haven't seen 
          mentioned by anyone yet, Wilmar Shiras' CHILDREN OF  THE ATOM. At 
          about 13  or  14  I bought the paperbacks of Clarke's CHILDHOOD'S 
          END  and AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT, both  of which I dearly loved 
          (and  still  do)  A  lot  of  the juvenile or  young adult titles 
          mentioned so  far  by other contributors either came out later or 
          simply weren't available at  my library (a  lot  of  ADULT titles 
          weren't either--I had  to discover gems like Simak and Cordwainer 
          Smith and lots of others on the paperback racks or  as  an adult) 
          What I'd recommend for children and teens would depend on reading 
          level; I  was always ahead of  my  age group, and  my reading was 
          restricted only  by availability.Pre-teens might enjoy  I,  ROBOT 
          and some of  the Heinlein my library reserved for older kids. The 
          Shiras  would  probably  appeal  a  lot  to  12  to  14-year-olds 
          especially, and 10 and up if they're good readers. 
               Chris Callahan                                               

From cstu  Mon Mar 27 14:11:46 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:11:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children by Boris Sidyuk (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 19:24:02 +0200
Subject: Re: sf for children

>
>   Seeing Stephanie mention Asimov's The Gods Themselves reminded me of a whole
>   flood or SF I read as a kid and which may have been partially responsible
>   for turning me away from the arts to the sciences.  Several follow but in no
>   particular order.

Why not to mention then Asimov's Lucky Star series?

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Mon Mar 27 14:12:48 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:12:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty by Boris Sidyuk (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 19:18:58 +0200
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty

Camille --

>   Gary--oh, ye of the Norton bibliography!  I read a book of Nortons when
>   I was a kid, about a boy in a post-nuclear war America.  It had A.D. 1999
>   in the title at the time, but I think it was rereleased later with a
>   new title.  I'd like to find it, but I don't have enough to go on--
>   are there enough clues here for you to help me out with a current title?

Try to look through John Ween's bibliography.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 14:38:13 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reply to: Half-remembered short story

CEO comments:
From: Mark Stackpole:CEO
Date: ## 03/27/95 14:33 ##
I don't recall the title, but the story is by Lawrence M. Janifer and 
it was published in _ANALOG_ right aroung the time you remember 
(1975-76). I'll even go out on a limb, and say that it was reprinted 
in _ANALOG 9_, edited by Ben Bova
Mark Stackpole

Preceeding Message:
From: [log in to unmask]:smtp
Date: ## 03/27/95 13:43 ##
See document for message.




From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 14:46:36 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:47:12 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LeGuin
To: [log in to unmask]
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I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
trilogy plus a separate novel?

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 14:52:53 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
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The story was "With Folded Hands". The novel was THE HUMANOIDS. The
author was Jack Williamson.

-- Mike Resnick
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 14:53:08 1995
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From: "Paddy Satzer"  <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: William Mitchell College of Law
Date:         27 Mar 95 13:52:47 CST6CDT
Subject:      childrens sf
Priority: normal
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I remember loving Eleanor Cameron's Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom
Planet, and, Stowaway to the Mushroom Planet. I also remember one
called Spaceship under the Apple Tree but I don't remember the
author.

Paddy Satzer
[log in to unmask] Satzer
William Mitchell College of Law
871 Summit Avenue
St. Paul  MN  55105
(612)290-6386
fax (612) 290-6318
email [log in to unmask]

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To: [log in to unmask]
From: "Paddy Satzer"  <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: William Mitchell College of Law
Date:         27 Mar 95 13:52:47 CST6CDT
Subject:      childrens sf
Priority: normal
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I remember loving Eleanor Cameron's Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom
Planet, and, Stowaway to the Mushroom Planet. I also remember one
called Spaceship under the Apple Tree but I don't remember the
author.

Paddy Satzer
[log in to unmask] Satzer
William Mitchell College of Law
871 Summit Avenue
St. Paul  MN  55105
(612)290-6386
fax (612) 290-6318
email [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 14:58:56 1995
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          Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:36 -0500
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
To: [log in to unmask]
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Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh

From cstu  Mon Mar 27 17:49:39 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: childrens sf by Paddy Satzer (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposting by colleen.

From: "Paddy Satzer"  <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         27 Mar 95 13:52:47 CST6CDT
Subject:      childrens sf

I remember loving Eleanor Cameron's Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom
Planet, and, Stowaway to the Mushroom Planet. I also remember one
called Spaceship under the Apple Tree but I don't remember the
author.

Paddy Satzer
[log in to unmask] Satzer
William Mitchell College of Law
871 Summit Avenue
St. Paul  MN  55105
(612)290-6386
fax (612) 290-6318
email [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 15:02:25 1995
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Cc: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Biology in science fiction

As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 15:52:12 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: re:Feminist Utopia

Just thought I'd add:

Always Coming Home by Ursula K. LeGuin. Not exactly utopia, but...

I would definitely put The Fifth Sacred Thing in this category.

Does a list of feminsit utopian books exist somehwhere? Directions on how to
get it?

Thanks

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 18:17:04 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 15:16:53 -0800 (PST)
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I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by 
Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which 
includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic 
Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better 
than the rather cheesy movie version.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 18:48:51 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children
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Oh, of course I forgot to mention Heinlein's starship troopers and 
earlier fiction is great for teens.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._


From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 19:23:36 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 19:23:33 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
author escapes my seive-like mind.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 22:14:53 1995
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Date:         Mon, 27 Mar 95 22:08:04 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:41:13 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

I agree that some controls should exist to protect children from some
of the weirder stuff on the net.  The problem is, of course, that the
people who are doing the extreme stuff will go on doing it until they
are caught, sentenced, and put in a cell with no telephone line.

In the meantime perfectly innocuous stuff that you could buy at your
grocery checkout counter, or watch on prime time broadcast tv is
being stamped out on the net because the people who own those access
points have a low risk tolerance when it comes to the government.  A
friend has even advised me to stay away from a discussion of why and how
writers hurt their CHARACTERS because even the irony could be misconstrued,

and we might be held liable if someone decided they would try this out
at home for real, instead of in the pages of books as we make clear we
are doing.

It kind of inhibits creativity in the cybersphere, which was looking
for a while like a great place for writers to meet and play.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 23:22:29 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson
From [log in to unmask]  Mon Mar 27 23:33:03 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 00:04:20 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:04:20 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

I'll echo the recommendation of the delightful "Spaceship Under the Apple
Tree" books by Louis Slobodkin--although the science is tenuous at best.

and I'll second the recommendation of John Wyndham's "Chrysalids," with a
caution that it's inappropriate for kids at the younger end of the reading
spectrum--primarily because of violence.

It also happens to have been recorded in an excellent unabridged
audiocassette version.

Which brings me to this question:

Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.

What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

Charles Meyerson

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:26 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:25 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends

Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:
>The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
>Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
>extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
>likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
>the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is
a
>"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
>through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
>conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
>as it is to the underground.  
>
>Any thoughts out there?

I read and liked the book very much. It is by far the best cyberspace novel I
have
read. I would call the town neither female nor utopia, but as you indicated,
this is 
unimportant to your question. She dealt in the book with some of the very 
questions of censorship and regulation of the net which have been discussed
by 
members of this list. She took the ball and ran with it carrying present
trends in
hacking and regulation to their ultimate conclusion.

I believe that the town was an attempt on her part to intoduce an
intermediary and a stabilizing 
element into what she sees happening btween the government and the
underground 
economy today. Today we have no stabilizer and it is not clear to me that the
government's 
attempts to regulate and tax the underground economy are always appropriate.

Distrust of power and authority is a recurrent theme in Ms. Scott's work.

Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:

  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;

  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.

Both of these are excellent and provocative.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:12:37 1995
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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:
>The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
>Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
>extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
>likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
>the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is
a
>"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
>through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
>conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
>as it is to the underground.  
>
>Any thoughts out there?

I read and liked the book very much. It is by far the best cyberspace novel I
have
read. I would call the town neither female nor utopia, but as you indicated,
this is 
unimportant to your question. She dealt in the book with some of the very 
questions of censorship and regulation of the net which have been discussed
by 
members of this list. She took the ball and ran with it carrying present
trends in
hacking and regulation to their ultimate conclusion.

I believe that the town was an attempt on her part to intoduce an
intermediary and a stabilizing 
element into what she sees happening btween the government and the
underground 
economy today. Today we have no stabilizer and it is not clear to me that the
government's 
attempts to regulate and tax the underground economy are always appropriate.

Distrust of power and authority is a recurrent theme in Ms. Scott's work.

Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:

  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;

  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.

Both of these are excellent and provocative.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:12:47 1995
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Dr. Robert Thompson wrote:
>The question: has anyone read Milissa Scott's latest, Trouble and Her
>Friends?  What did you think of it?  I find it interesting that she
>extends the virtual reality technology to the extreme, see the
>likely political threat it would create, and creates a quasi utiopia in
>the old West town designed by Trouble and her friend.  Whether or not it is
a
>"female" utopia is a moot point,but it is created by a female author
>through two female characters. I find it fascinating that Scott seems to
>conclude that the "deviant" town is as necessary to the legitimate powers
>as it is to the underground.  
>
>Any thoughts out there?

I read and liked the book very much. It is by far the best cyberspace novel I
have
read. I would call the town neither female nor utopia, but as you indicated,
this is 
unimportant to your question. She dealt in the book with some of the very 
questions of censorship and regulation of the net which have been discussed
by 
members of this list. She took the ball and ran with it carrying present
trends in
hacking and regulation to their ultimate conclusion.

I believe that the town was an attempt on her part to intoduce an
intermediary and a stabilizing 
element into what she sees happening btween the government and the
underground 
economy today. Today we have no stabilizer and it is not clear to me that the
government's 
attempts to regulate and tax the underground economy are always appropriate.

Distrust of power and authority is a recurrent theme in Ms. Scott's work.

Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:

  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;

  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.

Both of these are excellent and provocative.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:16:30 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:16:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sf for kids (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson

From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:17:11 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:17:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty



From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:17:11 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:17:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty


From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:17:52 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:17:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:04:20 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

I'll echo the recommendation of the delightful "Spaceship Under the Apple
Tree" books by Louis Slobodkin--although the science is tenuous at best.

and I'll second the recommendation of John Wyndham's "Chrysalids," with a
caution that it's inappropriate for kids at the younger end of the reading
spectrum--primarily because of violence.

It also happens to have been recorded in an excellent unabridged
audiocassette version.

Which brings me to this question:

Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.

What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

Charles Meyerson

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:20:04 1995
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to metronet.com:
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<<< 553 feenix.metronet.com config error: mail loops back to myself
554 <[log in to unmask]>... Service unavailable

   ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
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Subject: Re: Sf for kids (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:21:34 1995
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to metronet.com:
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Subject: Re: Sf for kids (Delete if you have seen this)
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson

From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:26:50 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LISTPROC PROBLEM
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

You were all very busy last night sending messages and I do have about a 
dozen or more to send out, HOWEVER, our address list seems to have double 
or tripled itself.  Rather than bombard you with the same message, I am 
going to hold off sending out any SF-LIT until we get this fixed 
(Today!).  Also, if you have been recieving duplicate message that do not 
have my reposting lines, I apologize, mea culpa!  Hopefully this delay 
will not last too long.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:20:04 1995
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   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to metronet.com:
>>> HELO feenix.metronet.com
<<< 553 feenix.metronet.com config error: mail loops back to myself
554 <[log in to unmask]>... Service unavailable

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Subject: Re: Sf for kids (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:21:34 1995
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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to metronet.com:
>>> HELO feenix.metronet.com
<<< 553 feenix.metronet.com config error: mail loops back to myself
554 <[log in to unmask]>... Service unavailable

   ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
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Subject: Re: Sf for kids (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SF for kids

I'd concur with the many other recommendations here of
Madeleine L'Engle's many books--most importantly "A Wrinkle in Time" and its
sequels.

I'd add several of Heinlein's works, including "Have Spacesuit--Will Travel"
and "Red Planet."

Also: A probably out-of-print anthology edited by Isaac Asimov, "Tomorrow's
Children."

Among others only dimly remembered from my own childhood:
Robert Silverberg's "Time of the Great Freeze," "Revolt on Planet X" and
Lester Del Rey's "Tunnel Through Time."

And I enjoyed Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" when I was at the upper end of
your target-age group...although it's a little advanced.

Although LeGuin's EarthSea books are great--highly recommended for kids and
other living creatures--I don't consider them science fiction. (I'd put them
right up there with Tolkien and C.S. Lewis's Narnia books on my recommended
list for kids; but the original question was about science fiction, and
there's no science about any of those books.)

Charles Meyerson

From cstu  Tue Mar 28 08:26:50 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA49431; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:26:50 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LISTPROC PROBLEM
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

You were all very busy last night sending messages and I do have about a 
dozen or more to send out, HOWEVER, our address list seems to have double 
or tripled itself.  Rather than bombard you with the same message, I am 
going to hold off sending out any SF-LIT until we get this fixed 
(Today!).  Also, if you have been recieving duplicate message that do not 
have my reposting lines, I apologize, mea culpa!  Hopefully this delay 
will not last too long.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:41:15 1995
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Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to metronet.com:
>>> HELO feenix.metronet.com
<<< 553 feenix.metronet.com config error: mail loops back to myself
554 <[log in to unmask]>... Service unavailable

   ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:04:20 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

I'll echo the recommendation of the delightful "Spaceship Under the Apple
Tree" books by Louis Slobodkin--although the science is tenuous at best.

and I'll second the recommendation of John Wyndham's "Chrysalids," with a
caution that it's inappropriate for kids at the younger end of the reading
spectrum--primarily because of violence.

It also happens to have been recorded in an excellent unabridged
audiocassette version.

Which brings me to this question:

Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.

What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

Charles Meyerson

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 08:43:22 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:04:20 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

I'll echo the recommendation of the delightful "Spaceship Under the Apple
Tree" books by Louis Slobodkin--although the science is tenuous at best.

and I'll second the recommendation of John Wyndham's "Chrysalids," with a
caution that it's inappropriate for kids at the younger end of the reading
spectrum--primarily because of violence.

It also happens to have been recorded in an excellent unabridged
audiocassette version.

Which brings me to this question:

Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.

What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

Charles Meyerson


From cstu  Tue Mar 28 10:08:07 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:08:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LISTPROC PROBLEM (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:26:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LISTPROC PROBLEM

You were all very busy last night sending messages and I do have about a 
dozen or more to send out, HOWEVER, our address list seems to have double 
or tripled itself.  Rather than bombard you with the same message, I am 
going to hold off sending out any SF-LIT until we get this fixed 
(Today!).  Also, if you have been recieving duplicate message that do not 
have my reposting lines, I apologize, mea culpa!  Hopefully this delay 
will not last too long.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Tue Mar 28 11:30:32 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:30:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Re-reposted by Colleen

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty




From cstu  Tue Mar 28 11:30:32 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:30:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Re-reposted by Colleen

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty




From cstu  Tue Mar 28 14:34:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:34:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF-LIT Back up!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I am keeping my fingers crossed, but we hope the problems with 
SF-LIT are solved for now.  Please let me know you get a identical 
posting, other than ones I am reposting.  We also may have solved that 
problem, but only testing will tell.  Brace yourselves; I have about 30 
messages to send out.
Colleen
Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Tue Mar 28 14:35:15 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:35:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Again, this is re-re-reposted by Colleen

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:33:02 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL

I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
the right to enforce their opinions.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty





From cstu  Tue Mar 28 14:41:52 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:41:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Camille (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: THE BILL

I agree that some controls should exist to protect children from some
of the weirder stuff on the net.  The problem is, of course, that the
people who are doing the extreme stuff will go on doing it until they
are caught, sentenced, and put in a cell with no telephone line.

In the meantime perfectly innocuous stuff that you could buy at your
grocery checkout counter, or watch on prime time broadcast tv is
being stamped out on the net because the people who own those access
points have a low risk tolerance when it comes to the government.  A
friend has even advised me to stay away from a discussion of why and how
writers hurt their CHARACTERS because even the irony could be misconstrued,

and we might be held liable if someone decided they would try this out
at home for real, instead of in the pages of books as we make clear we
are doing.

It kind of inhibits creativity in the cybersphere, which was looking
for a while like a great place for writers to meet and play.

Camille

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:30 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:30 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: PBS E.A. Poe Documentary

When they re-run it, you might enjoy looking in on the PBS Documentary
on Edgar Allen Poe. It is interesting and informative and even the fully
informed will enjoy the dramatizations of a couple of his short stories.
The rendition of The Cask of Amontillado was particularly excellent.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:36 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list

I received my copy of Air&Space Smithsonian today [Vol. 10 No. 1, April/May
1995]
and it carried a reminder of yet another old favorite group of novels. The
article on 
page 68 was titled The Original Space Cadet. It covered the Tom Corbett,
Space
Cadet TV series, comic books and novels.

They only gave one Novel title:

    On the Trail of the Space pirates by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap
  ???????

But my own book shelf yielded another:

   The Revolt on Venus by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap Publishers, New
York 1954.
The Revolt on Venus was mentioned in the article but in the context it seemed
to me that 
they referred to the TV series.

I have my doubts about whether the books are available today.

Any one who loved the TV series, the comic books or the novels should read
this.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:30 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:30 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: PBS E.A. Poe Documentary

When they re-run it, you might enjoy looking in on the PBS Documentary
on Edgar Allen Poe. It is interesting and informative and even the fully
informed will enjoy the dramatizations of a couple of his short stories.
The rendition of The Cask of Amontillado was particularly excellent.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:36 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list

I received my copy of Air&Space Smithsonian today [Vol. 10 No. 1, April/May
1995]
and it carried a reminder of yet another old favorite group of novels. The
article on 
page 68 was titled The Original Space Cadet. It covered the Tom Corbett,
Space
Cadet TV series, comic books and novels.

They only gave one Novel title:

    On the Trail of the Space pirates by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap
  ???????

But my own book shelf yielded another:

   The Revolt on Venus by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap Publishers, New
York 1954.
The Revolt on Venus was mentioned in the article but in the context it seemed
to me that 
they referred to the TV series.

I have my doubts about whether the books are available today.

Any one who loved the TV series, the comic books or the novels should read
this.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:45 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:44 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



>From: [log in to unmask] (CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN)
>Sender: [log in to unmask]
>Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
>To: [log in to unmask] (Multiple recipients of list)
>
>          GFeid asked about  a  story  in  which robots  did EVERYTHING =
for =

>          humans. Sounds like "With Folded Hands"--the author off  the  =
top =

>          of  my head is  Jack Williamson (don't have access to  my libr=
ary =

>          just  now,  but  the  name  came  to  mind along with  the tit=
le. =

 >         Somebody will correct me quickly if I'm wrong. The story has b=
een =

>          anthologized many times. The  other  story doesn't sound  at  =
all =

>          familiar, but  I'd also like to know what  it  is  if someone =
out =

>          there does recognize it. =

>               BTW, typos DO happen, incl. some  that sound suspicious. =
I'm =

>          a champion at what  a friend referred to  as "creative spellin=
g", =

>          and  even  with  a computer I've  been known  to  let  slip  s=
ome =

>          doozies=FF =

>               Chris Callahan =



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Correct on Title & Author.

See also the novels

The Huminoids By Jack Williamson
  and

The Huminoid Touch by Jack Williamson


And quite irrelevant to the subject see my all time favorite
Fantasy/Horror novel:

Darker Than You Think by Jack Williamson.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:37:10 1995
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 28 Mar 1995 09:36:02 MET
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:36:02 +0100 (MET)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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I've just read the message and I can't avoid to send an answer.
The book are from my memory, a lot of them i read in italian so it
is possible I'm confusing or modifyng some titles.
Please bear with my errors (I'll promise to look at the books and sending 
a correction if needed):

1) David Brin & Gregory Benford "In the heart of the comet"
   genetics and social problems mixed with adventure 

2) David Brin - the Uplift cycle
   the basic idea is to upgrade beings to intelligence and to preserve
   the ecology of the plantes

3) Lloyd Biggle Jr. - Monument (I'm not sure if the title is right)
   a world in a very fragile ecological balance that must be defended 
   [funny but with an interesting message] 

4) C.J. Cherryh works as Cyteen and all the Union-Alliance books where 
   there is a large use of cloned and conditioned men and women.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:10 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:22:57 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
Lines: 7

>   -- Mike Resnick

O, Gosh! Mike Resnick joined this listserv. Great! Hope a lot of writers
did and will join.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:24 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 23:56:36 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Half-remembered short story
Lines: 15

>   The world's scientists had built the world's largest computer, with the
>   anticipation that it could solve any problem.  Armies of programmers had
>   been working for months, loading in data on everything known to
>   mankind.  Among them was one woman who, in addition to her assigned
>   data loading, was teaching the computer to say 'please' and 'thank you',
>   and was also keying in poetry.  When the day finally came that all data
>   was loaded, the scientists asked THE question (probably, 'What is the
>   meaning of life?') and anxiously awaited the computer's response.  After
>   a period of humming and clicking, the computer printed out the answer ...
>   a quotation from Shakespeare.

Umghu. Douglas Adams's computer made a much better reply - 42.  ;)

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:02:13 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:20:16 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: LeGuin
Lines: 12

>   I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
>   and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
>   from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
>   trilogy plus a separate novel?

This happens all the time. Remember Asimov's FOUNDATION trilogy. All
later sequels are different and much worse (opinion mine). Seems
Asimov was forced by publishers to write any silly writings to continue
that very popular and successful series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:13 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:08:18 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
Lines: 12

Ok, when I found out there was such the thing called SF I started
with Alexander Mirer THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS. I still consider this
book one of the best children (I mean 9-15) SF ever written in the XUSSR.
After that I discovered for myself such great writers as Lagin,
Strugatsky brothers, Kir Bulychev (I still mean 9-15). If to try to
recall hard I would probably mention several dozens wonderful
Russian and Ukrainian language authors who wrote SF in the 70s. They
defined the psychology of my generation in the XUSSR (I was born
in 1965).

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:09:06 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 03:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

The most recent novel which I have a read close to this is _Steel_Beach_ 
by John Varley.  The action takes place in a future lunar society made up 
of humans using genetic engineering and bio modifications for work and 
peronal reasons.  I prefer Varley's earlier novel _The_Ophiuchi_Hotline_ 
which takes place in the same society but much farther in the future with 
plenty more biological and genetic developments.  It also seems like a 
more original piece of work.

You might try looking at some "bad" science fiction stories which explore 
biolgy and genetics also.  "bad" in the sense that they are not 
originally intended as literature (unlike Varley's work or Herbert's 
_Dune_) and are written as fast as possible directly for the paperback 
market so the authors can pay the bills at the end of the month.  

The latest I have read was in a paperback I bought half price in a used 
book shop.  It was titled _War_World_III:_Sauron_dominion_ with Jerry 
Pournelle and John F. Carr as editors, though I suspect Carr did all the 
work since Pournelle seems unable to write good SF or tell the difference 
between good or bad SF.  The Saurons are genetically engineered warriors 
who end up isolated on a very distant planet where they try to integrate 
the local human population in their holdings and their genetic experiments.
Since the book (and the others in the war world series) is made of 
stories of  several authors all working around the same theme, one gets some 
very interesting results of a mixed nature in ideas and readability.

You might have more trouble getting your hands on some of the "classic" 
SF stories in the field of biology and genetics but they are often reprinted.

Right in front of me I have a copy of 
_The_Ascent_of_Wonder_:The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF_, edited by David G. 
Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer (Tor Books, 1994)

In this anthology, I can see quite a few short "classics" on biology and 
genetics which have aged gracefully or are still at the forefront of 
speculation.  There is some modern material also.

"Nine lives" by Ursula K. Leguin is an excellent exploration of the 
social and psychological impact of cloning humans.

"Davy Jone's ambassador" by Raymond Z. Gallun is an exploration in marine 
biology untainted by its old age.

"Send me a kiss by wire" by Hlbert Schenk is a much more recent and quite 
eye-raising exploration in marine biology. Wild, funny, modern and 
solidly scientific.

"Stop evolution in its tracks" by  John T. Sladek is an ultra-short (5 
pages in this book) ultra-punchy tale. 

"The Hungry Guinea Pig" by Miles J. Breuer is a marvelous story which proves 
that there is nothing new under the sun, since it was written in 1930 and
its theme is still considered "new" by Hollywood in the 1990s

"giANTS" by Edward Bryant is the most solid, scientific speculation on 
what can happen when you decide to create biggger and bigggger and really 
bigger ants by genetic mutation.

"Desertion" by Clifford D. Simak is a very short classic on the 
philosophical and psycho implicatios of radical modifications of the 
human form.


The best stories on biology and genetics however are the ones you should 
go out and find yourself.

You know best the age groups you are preparing readings for, the 
libraries and/or bookstores they are going to get their novels and/or 
short stories in, and other variables too numerous to enumerate.

So, get to a library with four or five reference works (dictionaries or 
encyclopedias of Science fiction) and start looking in the thematic 
arrangements of SF stories and novels.  Proceed by elimination to get to 
the genetic stuff.  You can skip the robot stories, forget about the 
spaceship section and skim over the space opera repertoire but you really 
have to sift through themes like MUTANTS or ALIENS. 

Au revoir!

DE:  Alain Vaillancourt		[log in to unmask] 



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 10:05:10 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
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Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
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From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:36 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SF list

I received my copy of Air&Space Smithsonian today [Vol. 10 No. 1, April/May
1995]
and it carried a reminder of yet another old favorite group of novels. The
article on 
page 68 was titled The Original Space Cadet. It covered the Tom Corbett,
Space
Cadet TV series, comic books and novels.

They only gave one Novel title:

    On the Trail of the Space pirates by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap
  ???????

But my own book shelf yielded another:

   The Revolt on Venus by Carey Rockwell, Grosset & Dunlap Publishers, New
York 1954.
The Revolt on Venus was mentioned in the article but in the context it seemed
to me that 
they referred to the TV series.

I have my doubts about whether the books are available today.

Any one who loved the TV series, the comic books or the novels should read
this.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:07:45 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:07:44 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>From: [log in to unmask] (CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN)
>Sender: [log in to unmask]
>Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
>To: [log in to unmask] (Multiple recipients of list)
>
>          GFeid asked about  a  story  in  which robots  did EVERYTHING =
for =

>          humans. Sounds like "With Folded Hands"--the author off  the  =
top =

>          of  my head is  Jack Williamson (don't have access to  my libr=
ary =

>          just  now,  but  the  name  came  to  mind along with  the tit=
le. =

 >         Somebody will correct me quickly if I'm wrong. The story has b=
een =

>          anthologized many times. The  other  story doesn't sound  at  =
all =

>          familiar, but  I'd also like to know what  it  is  if someone =
out =

>          there does recognize it. =

>               BTW, typos DO happen, incl. some  that sound suspicious. =
I'm =

>          a champion at what  a friend referred to  as "creative spellin=
g", =

>          and  even  with  a computer I've  been known  to  let  slip  s=
ome =

>          doozies=FF =

>               Chris Callahan =



----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Correct on Title & Author.

See also the novels

The Huminoids By Jack Williamson
  and

The Huminoid Touch by Jack Williamson


And quite irrelevant to the subject see my all time favorite
Fantasy/Horror novel:

Darker Than You Think by Jack Williamson.

Gary

Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:37:10 1995
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 28 Mar 1995 09:36:02 MET
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:36:02 +0100 (MET)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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I've just read the message and I can't avoid to send an answer.
The book are from my memory, a lot of them i read in italian so it
is possible I'm confusing or modifyng some titles.
Please bear with my errors (I'll promise to look at the books and sending 
a correction if needed):

1) David Brin & Gregory Benford "In the heart of the comet"
   genetics and social problems mixed with adventure 

2) David Brin - the Uplift cycle
   the basic idea is to upgrade beings to intelligence and to preserve
   the ecology of the plantes

3) Lloyd Biggle Jr. - Monument (I'm not sure if the title is right)
   a world in a very fragile ecological balance that must be defended 
   [funny but with an interesting message] 

4) C.J. Cherryh works as Cyteen and all the Union-Alliance books where 
   there is a large use of cloned and conditioned men and women.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:22:57 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
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>   -- Mike Resnick

O, Gosh! Mike Resnick joined this listserv. Great! Hope a lot of writers
did and will join.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:24 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 23:56:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: Half-remembered short story
Lines: 15

>   The world's scientists had built the world's largest computer, with the
>   anticipation that it could solve any problem.  Armies of programmers had
>   been working for months, loading in data on everything known to
>   mankind.  Among them was one woman who, in addition to her assigned
>   data loading, was teaching the computer to say 'please' and 'thank you',
>   and was also keying in poetry.  When the day finally came that all data
>   was loaded, the scientists asked THE question (probably, 'What is the
>   meaning of life?') and anxiously awaited the computer's response.  After
>   a period of humming and clicking, the computer printed out the answer ...
>   a quotation from Shakespeare.

Umghu. Douglas Adams's computer made a much better reply - 42.  ;)

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:02:13 1995
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References: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:20:16 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: LeGuin
Lines: 12

>   I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
>   and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
>   from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
>   trilogy plus a separate novel?

This happens all the time. Remember Asimov's FOUNDATION trilogy. All
later sequels are different and much worse (opinion mine). Seems
Asimov was forced by publishers to write any silly writings to continue
that very popular and successful series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:13 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:08:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
Lines: 12

Ok, when I found out there was such the thing called SF I started
with Alexander Mirer THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS. I still consider this
book one of the best children (I mean 9-15) SF ever written in the XUSSR.
After that I discovered for myself such great writers as Lagin,
Strugatsky brothers, Kir Bulychev (I still mean 9-15). If to try to
recall hard I would probably mention several dozens wonderful
Russian and Ukrainian language authors who wrote SF in the 70s. They
defined the psychology of my generation in the XUSSR (I was born
in 1965).

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 03:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

The most recent novel which I have a read close to this is _Steel_Beach_ 
by John Varley.  The action takes place in a future lunar society made up 
of humans using genetic engineering and bio modifications for work and 
peronal reasons.  I prefer Varley's earlier novel _The_Ophiuchi_Hotline_ 
which takes place in the same society but much farther in the future with 
plenty more biological and genetic developments.  It also seems like a 
more original piece of work.

You might try looking at some "bad" science fiction stories which explore 
biolgy and genetics also.  "bad" in the sense that they are not 
originally intended as literature (unlike Varley's work or Herbert's 
_Dune_) and are written as fast as possible directly for the paperback 
market so the authors can pay the bills at the end of the month.  

The latest I have read was in a paperback I bought half price in a used 
book shop.  It was titled _War_World_III:_Sauron_dominion_ with Jerry 
Pournelle and John F. Carr as editors, though I suspect Carr did all the 
work since Pournelle seems unable to write good SF or tell the difference 
between good or bad SF.  The Saurons are genetically engineered warriors 
who end up isolated on a very distant planet where they try to integrate 
the local human population in their holdings and their genetic experiments.
Since the book (and the others in the war world series) is made of 
stories of  several authors all working around the same theme, one gets some 
very interesting results of a mixed nature in ideas and readability.

You might have more trouble getting your hands on some of the "classic" 
SF stories in the field of biology and genetics but they are often reprinted.

Right in front of me I have a copy of 
_The_Ascent_of_Wonder_:The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF_, edited by David G. 
Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer (Tor Books, 1994)

In this anthology, I can see quite a few short "classics" on biology and 
genetics which have aged gracefully or are still at the forefront of 
speculation.  There is some modern material also.

"Nine lives" by Ursula K. Leguin is an excellent exploration of the 
social and psychological impact of cloning humans.

"Davy Jone's ambassador" by Raymond Z. Gallun is an exploration in marine 
biology untainted by its old age.

"Send me a kiss by wire" by Hlbert Schenk is a much more recent and quite 
eye-raising exploration in marine biology. Wild, funny, modern and 
solidly scientific.

"Stop evolution in its tracks" by  John T. Sladek is an ultra-short (5 
pages in this book) ultra-punchy tale. 

"The Hungry Guinea Pig" by Miles J. Breuer is a marvelous story which proves 
that there is nothing new under the sun, since it was written in 1930 and
its theme is still considered "new" by Hollywood in the 1990s

"giANTS" by Edward Bryant is the most solid, scientific speculation on 
what can happen when you decide to create biggger and bigggger and really 
bigger ants by genetic mutation.

"Desertion" by Clifford D. Simak is a very short classic on the 
philosophical and psycho implicatios of radical modifications of the 
human form.


The best stories on biology and genetics however are the ones you should 
go out and find yourself.

You know best the age groups you are preparing readings for, the 
libraries and/or bookstores they are going to get their novels and/or 
short stories in, and other variables too numerous to enumerate.

So, get to a library with four or five reference works (dictionaries or 
encyclopedias of Science fiction) and start looking in the thematic 
arrangements of SF stories and novels.  Proceed by elimination to get to 
the genetic stuff.  You can skip the robot stories, forget about the 
spaceship section and skim over the space opera repertoire but you really 
have to sift through themes like MUTANTS or ALIENS. 

Au revoir!

DE:  Alain Vaillancourt		[log in to unmask] 



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
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Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
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Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
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        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
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From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
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Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 02:37:10 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:36:02 +0100 (MET)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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I've just read the message and I can't avoid to send an answer.
The book are from my memory, a lot of them i read in italian so it
is possible I'm confusing or modifyng some titles.
Please bear with my errors (I'll promise to look at the books and sending 
a correction if needed):

1) David Brin & Gregory Benford "In the heart of the comet"
   genetics and social problems mixed with adventure 

2) David Brin - the Uplift cycle
   the basic idea is to upgrade beings to intelligence and to preserve
   the ecology of the plantes

3) Lloyd Biggle Jr. - Monument (I'm not sure if the title is right)
   a world in a very fragile ecological balance that must be defended 
   [funny but with an interesting message] 

4) C.J. Cherryh works as Cyteen and all the Union-Alliance books where 
   there is a large use of cloned and conditioned men and women.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:10 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:22:57 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE STORY INFO REQUEST
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>   -- Mike Resnick

O, Gosh! Mike Resnick joined this listserv. Great! Hope a lot of writers
did and will join.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:24 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 23:56:36 +0200
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>   The world's scientists had built the world's largest computer, with the
>   anticipation that it could solve any problem.  Armies of programmers had
>   been working for months, loading in data on everything known to
>   mankind.  Among them was one woman who, in addition to her assigned
>   data loading, was teaching the computer to say 'please' and 'thank you',
>   and was also keying in poetry.  When the day finally came that all data
>   was loaded, the scientists asked THE question (probably, 'What is the
>   meaning of life?') and anxiously awaited the computer's response.  After
>   a period of humming and clicking, the computer printed out the answer ...
>   a quotation from Shakespeare.

Umghu. Douglas Adams's computer made a much better reply - 42.  ;)

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:02:13 1995
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References: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:20:16 +0200
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Subject: Re: LeGuin
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>   I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
>   and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
>   from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
>   trilogy plus a separate novel?

This happens all the time. Remember Asimov's FOUNDATION trilogy. All
later sequels are different and much worse (opinion mine). Seems
Asimov was forced by publishers to write any silly writings to continue
that very popular and successful series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:13 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:08:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
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Ok, when I found out there was such the thing called SF I started
with Alexander Mirer THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS. I still consider this
book one of the best children (I mean 9-15) SF ever written in the XUSSR.
After that I discovered for myself such great writers as Lagin,
Strugatsky brothers, Kir Bulychev (I still mean 9-15). If to try to
recall hard I would probably mention several dozens wonderful
Russian and Ukrainian language authors who wrote SF in the 70s. They
defined the psychology of my generation in the XUSSR (I was born
in 1965).

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:09:06 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 03:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

The most recent novel which I have a read close to this is _Steel_Beach_ 
by John Varley.  The action takes place in a future lunar society made up 
of humans using genetic engineering and bio modifications for work and 
peronal reasons.  I prefer Varley's earlier novel _The_Ophiuchi_Hotline_ 
which takes place in the same society but much farther in the future with 
plenty more biological and genetic developments.  It also seems like a 
more original piece of work.

You might try looking at some "bad" science fiction stories which explore 
biolgy and genetics also.  "bad" in the sense that they are not 
originally intended as literature (unlike Varley's work or Herbert's 
_Dune_) and are written as fast as possible directly for the paperback 
market so the authors can pay the bills at the end of the month.  

The latest I have read was in a paperback I bought half price in a used 
book shop.  It was titled _War_World_III:_Sauron_dominion_ with Jerry 
Pournelle and John F. Carr as editors, though I suspect Carr did all the 
work since Pournelle seems unable to write good SF or tell the difference 
between good or bad SF.  The Saurons are genetically engineered warriors 
who end up isolated on a very distant planet where they try to integrate 
the local human population in their holdings and their genetic experiments.
Since the book (and the others in the war world series) is made of 
stories of  several authors all working around the same theme, one gets some 
very interesting results of a mixed nature in ideas and readability.

You might have more trouble getting your hands on some of the "classic" 
SF stories in the field of biology and genetics but they are often reprinted.

Right in front of me I have a copy of 
_The_Ascent_of_Wonder_:The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF_, edited by David G. 
Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer (Tor Books, 1994)

In this anthology, I can see quite a few short "classics" on biology and 
genetics which have aged gracefully or are still at the forefront of 
speculation.  There is some modern material also.

"Nine lives" by Ursula K. Leguin is an excellent exploration of the 
social and psychological impact of cloning humans.

"Davy Jone's ambassador" by Raymond Z. Gallun is an exploration in marine 
biology untainted by its old age.

"Send me a kiss by wire" by Hlbert Schenk is a much more recent and quite 
eye-raising exploration in marine biology. Wild, funny, modern and 
solidly scientific.

"Stop evolution in its tracks" by  John T. Sladek is an ultra-short (5 
pages in this book) ultra-punchy tale. 

"The Hungry Guinea Pig" by Miles J. Breuer is a marvelous story which proves 
that there is nothing new under the sun, since it was written in 1930 and
its theme is still considered "new" by Hollywood in the 1990s

"giANTS" by Edward Bryant is the most solid, scientific speculation on 
what can happen when you decide to create biggger and bigggger and really 
bigger ants by genetic mutation.

"Desertion" by Clifford D. Simak is a very short classic on the 
philosophical and psycho implicatios of radical modifications of the 
human form.


The best stories on biology and genetics however are the ones you should 
go out and find yourself.

You know best the age groups you are preparing readings for, the 
libraries and/or bookstores they are going to get their novels and/or 
short stories in, and other variables too numerous to enumerate.

So, get to a library with four or five reference works (dictionaries or 
encyclopedias of Science fiction) and start looking in the thematic 
arrangements of SF stories and novels.  Proceed by elimination to get to 
the genetic stuff.  You can skip the robot stories, forget about the 
spaceship section and skim over the space opera repertoire but you really 
have to sift through themes like MUTANTS or ALIENS. 

Au revoir!

DE:  Alain Vaillancourt		[log in to unmask] 



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 05:57:01 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 28 Mar 95 14:00:43 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
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Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
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Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:24 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 23:56:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: Half-remembered short story
Lines: 15

>   The world's scientists had built the world's largest computer, with the
>   anticipation that it could solve any problem.  Armies of programmers had
>   been working for months, loading in data on everything known to
>   mankind.  Among them was one woman who, in addition to her assigned
>   data loading, was teaching the computer to say 'please' and 'thank you',
>   and was also keying in poetry.  When the day finally came that all data
>   was loaded, the scientists asked THE question (probably, 'What is the
>   meaning of life?') and anxiously awaited the computer's response.  After
>   a period of humming and clicking, the computer printed out the answer ...
>   a quotation from Shakespeare.

Umghu. Douglas Adams's computer made a much better reply - 42.  ;)

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:02:13 1995
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References: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:20:16 +0200
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Subject: Re: LeGuin
Lines: 12

>   I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
>   and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
>   from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
>   trilogy plus a separate novel?

This happens all the time. Remember Asimov's FOUNDATION trilogy. All
later sequels are different and much worse (opinion mine). Seems
Asimov was forced by publishers to write any silly writings to continue
that very popular and successful series.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:13 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:08:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
Lines: 12

Ok, when I found out there was such the thing called SF I started
with Alexander Mirer THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS. I still consider this
book one of the best children (I mean 9-15) SF ever written in the XUSSR.
After that I discovered for myself such great writers as Lagin,
Strugatsky brothers, Kir Bulychev (I still mean 9-15). If to try to
recall hard I would probably mention several dozens wonderful
Russian and Ukrainian language authors who wrote SF in the 70s. They
defined the psychology of my generation in the XUSSR (I was born
in 1965).

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:09:06 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 03:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

The most recent novel which I have a read close to this is _Steel_Beach_ 
by John Varley.  The action takes place in a future lunar society made up 
of humans using genetic engineering and bio modifications for work and 
peronal reasons.  I prefer Varley's earlier novel _The_Ophiuchi_Hotline_ 
which takes place in the same society but much farther in the future with 
plenty more biological and genetic developments.  It also seems like a 
more original piece of work.

You might try looking at some "bad" science fiction stories which explore 
biolgy and genetics also.  "bad" in the sense that they are not 
originally intended as literature (unlike Varley's work or Herbert's 
_Dune_) and are written as fast as possible directly for the paperback 
market so the authors can pay the bills at the end of the month.  

The latest I have read was in a paperback I bought half price in a used 
book shop.  It was titled _War_World_III:_Sauron_dominion_ with Jerry 
Pournelle and John F. Carr as editors, though I suspect Carr did all the 
work since Pournelle seems unable to write good SF or tell the difference 
between good or bad SF.  The Saurons are genetically engineered warriors 
who end up isolated on a very distant planet where they try to integrate 
the local human population in their holdings and their genetic experiments.
Since the book (and the others in the war world series) is made of 
stories of  several authors all working around the same theme, one gets some 
very interesting results of a mixed nature in ideas and readability.

You might have more trouble getting your hands on some of the "classic" 
SF stories in the field of biology and genetics but they are often reprinted.

Right in front of me I have a copy of 
_The_Ascent_of_Wonder_:The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF_, edited by David G. 
Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer (Tor Books, 1994)

In this anthology, I can see quite a few short "classics" on biology and 
genetics which have aged gracefully or are still at the forefront of 
speculation.  There is some modern material also.

"Nine lives" by Ursula K. Leguin is an excellent exploration of the 
social and psychological impact of cloning humans.

"Davy Jone's ambassador" by Raymond Z. Gallun is an exploration in marine 
biology untainted by its old age.

"Send me a kiss by wire" by Hlbert Schenk is a much more recent and quite 
eye-raising exploration in marine biology. Wild, funny, modern and 
solidly scientific.

"Stop evolution in its tracks" by  John T. Sladek is an ultra-short (5 
pages in this book) ultra-punchy tale. 

"The Hungry Guinea Pig" by Miles J. Breuer is a marvelous story which proves 
that there is nothing new under the sun, since it was written in 1930 and
its theme is still considered "new" by Hollywood in the 1990s

"giANTS" by Edward Bryant is the most solid, scientific speculation on 
what can happen when you decide to create biggger and bigggger and really 
bigger ants by genetic mutation.

"Desertion" by Clifford D. Simak is a very short classic on the 
philosophical and psycho implicatios of radical modifications of the 
human form.


The best stories on biology and genetics however are the ones you should 
go out and find yourself.

You know best the age groups you are preparing readings for, the 
libraries and/or bookstores they are going to get their novels and/or 
short stories in, and other variables too numerous to enumerate.

So, get to a library with four or five reference works (dictionaries or 
encyclopedias of Science fiction) and start looking in the thematic 
arrangements of SF stories and novels.  Proceed by elimination to get to 
the genetic stuff.  You can skip the robot stories, forget about the 
spaceship section and skim over the space opera repertoire but you really 
have to sift through themes like MUTANTS or ALIENS. 

Au revoir!

DE:  Alain Vaillancourt		[log in to unmask] 



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 05:57:01 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 07:39:47 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
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From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
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Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 03:01:13 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 00:08:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: RE: CHILDREN'S SF
Lines: 12

Ok, when I found out there was such the thing called SF I started
with Alexander Mirer THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS. I still consider this
book one of the best children (I mean 9-15) SF ever written in the XUSSR.
After that I discovered for myself such great writers as Lagin,
Strugatsky brothers, Kir Bulychev (I still mean 9-15). If to try to
recall hard I would probably mention several dozens wonderful
Russian and Ukrainian language authors who wrote SF in the 70s. They
defined the psychology of my generation in the XUSSR (I was born
in 1965).

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 03:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Vaillancourt Alain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 

The most recent novel which I have a read close to this is _Steel_Beach_ 
by John Varley.  The action takes place in a future lunar society made up 
of humans using genetic engineering and bio modifications for work and 
peronal reasons.  I prefer Varley's earlier novel _The_Ophiuchi_Hotline_ 
which takes place in the same society but much farther in the future with 
plenty more biological and genetic developments.  It also seems like a 
more original piece of work.

You might try looking at some "bad" science fiction stories which explore 
biolgy and genetics also.  "bad" in the sense that they are not 
originally intended as literature (unlike Varley's work or Herbert's 
_Dune_) and are written as fast as possible directly for the paperback 
market so the authors can pay the bills at the end of the month.  

The latest I have read was in a paperback I bought half price in a used 
book shop.  It was titled _War_World_III:_Sauron_dominion_ with Jerry 
Pournelle and John F. Carr as editors, though I suspect Carr did all the 
work since Pournelle seems unable to write good SF or tell the difference 
between good or bad SF.  The Saurons are genetically engineered warriors 
who end up isolated on a very distant planet where they try to integrate 
the local human population in their holdings and their genetic experiments.
Since the book (and the others in the war world series) is made of 
stories of  several authors all working around the same theme, one gets some 
very interesting results of a mixed nature in ideas and readability.

You might have more trouble getting your hands on some of the "classic" 
SF stories in the field of biology and genetics but they are often reprinted.

Right in front of me I have a copy of 
_The_Ascent_of_Wonder_:The_Evolution_of_Hard_SF_, edited by David G. 
Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer (Tor Books, 1994)

In this anthology, I can see quite a few short "classics" on biology and 
genetics which have aged gracefully or are still at the forefront of 
speculation.  There is some modern material also.

"Nine lives" by Ursula K. Leguin is an excellent exploration of the 
social and psychological impact of cloning humans.

"Davy Jone's ambassador" by Raymond Z. Gallun is an exploration in marine 
biology untainted by its old age.

"Send me a kiss by wire" by Hlbert Schenk is a much more recent and quite 
eye-raising exploration in marine biology. Wild, funny, modern and 
solidly scientific.

"Stop evolution in its tracks" by  John T. Sladek is an ultra-short (5 
pages in this book) ultra-punchy tale. 

"The Hungry Guinea Pig" by Miles J. Breuer is a marvelous story which proves 
that there is nothing new under the sun, since it was written in 1930 and
its theme is still considered "new" by Hollywood in the 1990s

"giANTS" by Edward Bryant is the most solid, scientific speculation on 
what can happen when you decide to create biggger and bigggger and really 
bigger ants by genetic mutation.

"Desertion" by Clifford D. Simak is a very short classic on the 
philosophical and psycho implicatios of radical modifications of the 
human form.


The best stories on biology and genetics however are the ones you should 
go out and find yourself.

You know best the age groups you are preparing readings for, the 
libraries and/or bookstores they are going to get their novels and/or 
short stories in, and other variables too numerous to enumerate.

So, get to a library with four or five reference works (dictionaries or 
encyclopedias of Science fiction) and start looking in the thematic 
arrangements of SF stories and novels.  Proceed by elimination to get to 
the genetic stuff.  You can skip the robot stories, forget about the 
spaceship section and skim over the space opera repertoire but you really 
have to sift through themes like MUTANTS or ALIENS. 

Au revoir!

DE:  Alain Vaillancourt		[log in to unmask] 



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 05:57:01 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 10:05:10 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:00:20 1995
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From: Catherine A Murdoch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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The mention of Micheal Crichton reminds me, don't forget his book 
Jurassic Park.  It fits the criteria and is an very good book.

--                                                                       --
Catherine Murdoch                  | Internet: [log in to unmask]
Auchmuty Library                   | Ph  (intl+61+49) 217147
University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833

"If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would 
 deteriorate the cat."  -  Mark Twain

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:06 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:57:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 05:57:01 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
> 
You might be interested in getting them to read harry harrison's "Eden" books
(WEST OF EDEN, WINTER IN EDEN, RETURN TO EDEN) or Brian Aldiss's "Helliconia"
trilogy - both of which have very detailed biological input from Jack Cohen.
Gwyneth Jones NORTH WIND and WHITE QUEEN have some very interesting 
biological speculation with reference to her alien race.

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 07:39:47 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 28 Mar 95 14:00:43 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Encoding: 32 TEXT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 10:05:10 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:08:07 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:58:02 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Mar 27, 95 07:39:47 pm
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In the last mail [log in to unmask] said:
> 
> The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
> author escapes my seive-like mind.
> 
?C.J Cherryh

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> > 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 05:19:04 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask] (sflit)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:48 +0100 (BST)
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Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
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Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
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Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
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From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 09:47:46 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:01:00 GMT
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Encoding: 32 TEXT
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Charles Meyerson asks:

>
>Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
>audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
>Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
>Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac 
Asimov
>and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
>
>What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
>

Try contacting the British charity, the Royal National Institute for the 
Blind
(RNIB). They produce a large range of Talking Books; I don't know
whether they're willing to sell them to sighted people, but they'd be worth
checking out. I can't give you the address, I'm afraid, but maybe someone
else can supply it.

Talking Books has long been  a popular charity amongst UK SF fans,
and enough money to sponsor transcription of several SF novels has
been raised. Colin Greenland recently read his own Take Back Plenty
for one of the RNIB's publications.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
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Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:05:25 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 10:05:10 EST
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From: "CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF

          Re biology in  SF,  John  Palmer recommended CYTEEN  but couldn't 
          remember author: it's C.J. Cherryh (got  the  Hugo  in  I believe 
          1989 for it). I'd also add  her 40,OOO IN GEHENNA (combination of 
          biology, psychology and  ecology).  Other possibilities: BECOMING 
          HUMAN (forget author; she's  new);  ORPHAN  OF CREATION by  Roger 
          McBride Allen and ANCIENT OF DAYS by Michael Bishop (if  you want 
          to  consider anthropology under  the  biology  heading);  Octavia 
          Butler's novels (WILD SEED? there are 3,  I think); John Varley's 
          Titan trilogy and  lots  of  his short stories; Spider and Jeanne 
          Robinson's STARDANCE; David Brin's EARTH, STARTIDE RISING and its 
          sequel, and GLORY SEASON (this last might  also  be considered in 
          the "feminist utopia" category); Poul Anderson's BRAINWAVE (maybe 
          a stretch, but concerns ecology in  a  VERY  large  sense,  as  I 
          remember it); Sheri Tepper's GRASS and RAISING THE STONE  (or  is 
          it  STONES?);  LeGuin's  LEFT  HAND   OF  DARKNESS;  Kim  Stanley 
          Robinson's Mars trilogy (so  far  RED  MARS  and GREEN MARS; BLUE 
          MARS still to come). Will this  do  for  a start? (and this isn't 
          even *touching* the  mountains  of  shorter  fiction  aside  from 
          Varleyÿ)   I'm   looking  forward   to   seeing   other  people's 
          suggestions--this is funÿ 
               Chris Callahan 
           
                    "So many books, so little time"                         
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 10:08:49 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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Brian Aldiss' _Helliconia_ books certainly offer speculation about biology
and evolution (as well as a good many other topics).  Some of his thought
about how living organisms adapt to their environment appeared in _The Long
Afternoon of Earth_, which was published, I think, in the early 60s.

Walter F. Nickeson
Copy Cataloger
University of Rochester Libraries
Rochester, NY
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
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Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
To: [log in to unmask]
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:10:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Wasn't the Cyteen trilogy done by C.J. Cherryh?

Patricia Silva
[log in to unmask]
8-)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:12:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Trouble and Her Friends
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Gary Swaty wrote:
>Two of her other books which touch on the man-computer interface are:
>
>  Burning Bright  (TOR hard cover 1993)  -- Virtual reality and gaming;
>
>  Dreamships (TOR hard cover 1992) -- Artificial intelligence.
>
>Both of these are excellent and provocative.

I think she is one of the bright voices of the day.  
Perhaps her cybertown is not a utopia, but I like to think of it as such.  
One problem with the classic utopian concept is that change is forever ruled 
out by definition.  So call Scott's town a a quasi-utopia.  It will (would) 
evolve but is the start of a glen of free space surrounded by a troubled 
world.  Whether or not it is utopian, I like it and wish I could frequent 
it. (Yes, I would have a brain-worm transplant.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
To: [log in to unmask]
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:18:59 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: SF on audio tape
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Charles Meyerson asked if for recommendations of unabridged SF 
(science-fiction or -fantasy) on >audiotape? 

Some of Ellison's short stories and novellas are on tape.  You might check 
ou "a boy and his dog" and "???said the ticktock man."  (Sorry, the mind is 
the first to go.)
Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:33:21 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:35:20 MST
Subject:       Re: sf for children 
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

I don't know if anyone has yet mentioned a couple of series for 
younger children: Lloyd Alexander's _Time Cat_, with sequels, and 
Jane Yolen's Commmander Toad books.  At the other end of the 
age spectrum, three fine writers are Monica Hughes, Jan Mark, and 
Molly Gloss.  Gloss's book is _Outside the Gates_; I don't have 
titles at hand for the other two.

Brian   

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 11:40:32 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: biology in science fiction

Dear Joan:  Here's a few more suggestions for you to consider for your
reading list of biology in SF (with emphasis on genetics):  Wells' _Island of
Dr. Moreau_, van Vogt's _Slan_, Cordwainer Smith's "Scanners Live in Vain"
and "Ballad of Lost C'Mell," Delany's "Aye, and Gomorrah," Herbert's _Dune_,
LeGuin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Varley's _Ophiuchi Hotline_, Crichton's
_Jurassic Park_, and Octavia Butler's Exogenesis series.  I've got a longer
reading list I use in my SF course which I'd be happy to send you via
snail-mail, if you're interested.  Just send me your address.  Good luck with
the course.
Best regards,
Donald Gilzinger
Suffolk Community College
Long Island
From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
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Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From @palnet.palantiri.spb.su:[log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 12:37:10 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: Leonid Ryzhyck <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Russian Four Swords Awards Winners
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 20:26:34 +0300


FOUR SWORDS AWARDS PRESENTED

by Serge Barros

New Russian genre-oriented awards winners were anounced at first time March 
25th, 1995 during the SibCon in Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

So-called Four Swords Awards were establiashed last year as part of annual 
Strannik [Stranger] Award for the best original genre publications of the 
previous year. There are: The Sword in the Stone Award for the best fantasy; 
The Moon Sword Award for the best horror; The Mirror Sword Award for the best 
alternate hisory; and The Rumata's Sword for the best heroic sf&fantasy.

Judges for those awards are the same as for the general Strannik Awards -- 
Boris Strugatsky (chairman), Eduard Gevorkyan, Andrey Lazarchuk, Yevgeny Lukin,
Vladimir Mikhailov, Mikhail Ouspensky, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Andrey Stolyarov and
Mikhail Veller.

Nominations for the awards were prepared with Strannik Nomination Commitee 
consisted of criticists, researchers and fans; Boris Zavgorodny was a Secretary 
of the Commitee. There were seven nominations for each cathegory. The first 
round judges voting defined three finalists, and the the second round defined 
winners.The judge member cannot vote pro or contra his own works.

For the first time publications of the recent three years were eligible for 
nominations; next time only the publications of the previous year will be 
competitors.

The announced winners were:

The Sword in the Stone Award -- Mikhail Ouspensky for the humorous fantasy 
novel "Tam, gde nas net" ["Where We're Not"] ("Den' i Noch" ["Day and Night"], 
##4-5'1994)

The Moon Sword Award -- Andrey Lazarchuk for the short story "Mumiya" ["Mummy"]
(coll. "Svyashchenny mesyats Rin'" ["Sacred Month of Rin'"], Terra Fantastica, 
1993).

The Mirror Award -- Vyacheslav Rybakov for the novel "Gravilyot "Tsesarevitch" 
["'Tsesarevitch' Spaceship"] ("Neva", ##7-8'1993).

The Rumata's Sword -- Sergey Lukyanenko for the novel "Rytsari Soroka Ostrovov" 
["Knights of the Fourty Islands"] (Terra Fantastica, 1993).

The general Strannik Awards for the best Russian genre publications of the 1994 
will be presented durind the InterPressCon in St.Petersburg, Russia, May 7th 
1995.


=========
"Russian SF Courier" Service
=========
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta5+
 * Origin: Camelot-89. Voice call (812)-310-6007 (2:5030/207.2)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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	id NAA10659; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:19:55 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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        28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway.

Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:19:57 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 13:19:34 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)

To this day, my favorite sci fi/fantasy books have got to be Tolkien's
_Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy -- a gift to me from my father at
age 9. The books are falling apart.

Another, not nearly so eloquent but still captivating series were the books
by Lloyd Alexander beginning with _The Black Cauldron_. I was also fascinated
by Robin McKinley (_The Blue Sword_, etc.) and Anne McCaffrey, and remember
reading Robert Jordan's Conan books. I also got hooked on Douglas Adams at an
early age.

These are all more fantasy than science fiction, but perhaps interesting to
note.

D J Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:23:27 1995
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        28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 28 Mar 1995 13:24:13 EST
Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "SINYA B SCHAEFFER" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEN YEAR OLDS
To: [log in to unmask]
Comment: TEN YEAR OLDS

Hi: 
     I  have  been luring lately, but enjoying the discussions on  the 
list.  In the recent discussion regarding net censorship, when someone 
talked about  10  year  olds surfing the  net,  I thought  it  was  an 
exageration. 
     The forwarded message below is from one  of those "10  year olds" 
THE BILL was worried about.  They ARE on Internet.  I remember another 
one on STREK-L last year too. 
                                Sinya 
---------------------- Information from the mail header -------------- 
Sender:       Star Trek Fan Club list <[log in to unmask]> 
Poster:       [log in to unmask] 
Subject:      plot idea 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  
"My idea is that one of the shows should be about Kes, her mind and he 
thoughts, because she's telepathic." 
  
Devorah Serkin, age 10 
  
(Never too young to love Star Trek or learn about the internet) 
  
********************************************************************** 
        Marcy Serkin                    Jewish Theological Seminary of 
                                        3080 Broadway 
        "'Hinder me? Thou foolÿ         New York, NY 10027 
        No living man may hinder meÿ'   Fax: (212) 678-8941 
  
        'But no living man am Iÿ        "The Turtle moves." 
        You look upon a woman. 
        Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter'" 
  
        [log in to unmask] 
        (212) 678-8849/8749 
********************************************************************** 
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:46:09 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> Which brings me to this question:
> 
> Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> audiotape? In addition to "Chrysalids," I've already enjoyed the LeGuin
> Earthsea trilogy; Lieber's "The Wanderer"; Clarke's "Childhood's End" and
> Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles"; and several works by Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov
> and Dean Koontz. Stephen King, of course, is widely available.
> 
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?
> 
> Charles Meyerson
> 
 
Doesn't Harlan Ellison have a lot of his stories on tape?  I think there 
used to be a Harlan Ellison Record Club (8 Nebula and Hugo winners for a 
penny!).

--Matt Hartman

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: children's sf lit
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway.

Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is 
really a chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way 
back when I was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful 
(perhaps the idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the 
help of technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories 
of SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:48:46 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/20.3) id AA296276525; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:48:45 -0600
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Karen Horny)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

The author is C.J. Cherryh.  Also look for Octavia Butler's triology (I
think the titles are 'Dawn,' 'Adulthood Rites,' and 'Imago,'- but I can't
swear I've got those right from memory!  
                -Karen Horny, Northwestern U. Library

>The Cyteen trilogy was great for biology, especially genetics.  The 
>author escapes my seive-like mind.
>
>-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
>John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
>PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
>". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
>labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
>in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
>_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._
>
>On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
Science
>> Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>> coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
genetics
>> or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> 
>
>

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 13:59:05 1995
Received: from [192.207.226.229] by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA36614; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:59:05 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:56:52 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Le Guin

IMHO, Tehanu could be read separately; but, it certainly completed the 
Earthsea Trilogy.  I always recommend reading the first three before Tehanu
just for completeness.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:36:53 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:19:44 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 10

>   I consider the definitive "Biology in SF" book to be "Blood Music", by
>   Greg Bear.  Then there's the Andromeda Strain, by Michael Crichton, which
>   includes a lot of biology with the virology.  And don't forget "Fantastic
>   Voyage" by Asimov, which is more anatomy than biology, but is much better
>   than the rather cheesy movie version.

I would consider "Biology in SF" is in SECTOR GENERAL series by James White.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:27 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:23:41 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
Lines: 11

>   As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>   Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>   coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>   or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski

In ex-Soviet SF there is a great SF movie PER ASPERA AD ASTRA directed
by Richard Victorov. Very good example of ecologic SF. There are lots
in books.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:39:28 1995
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          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:34:23 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 22:34:23 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: THE BILL
Lines: 11

Here in Kiev Fidonet we have a discuss like this but about
computer viruses. A group of computer geeks :) here issues
electronic zine called Infected Voice. A person announced
a new issue in echo KIEV.TALKS. Moderator of the echo
immediately placed (++) and (!) for that guy. Flame rose up, and the
discuss started. And it is very alike to what I see here
about porn on the net. It seems to me the topic can't have
a solution.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:57:27 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:56:31 -0700 (MST)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:56:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Envelope-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

There is a book called _The Gate To Women's Country_ by Sheri Tepper 
which establishes a feminist utopia but then deals with the problems
that might occur in such a society.  I don't know if it would really
qualify as a feminist utopia because it basically says that men &
women should try to live together equally, without one dominating over
the other.  It was an interesting book, though, and I highly recommend
it.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 14:57:27 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:56:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Envelope-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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There is a book called _The Gate To Women's Country_ by Sheri Tepper 
which establishes a feminist utopia but then deals with the problems
that might occur in such a society.  I don't know if it would really
qualify as a feminist utopia because it basically says that men &
women should try to live together equally, without one dominating over
the other.  It was an interesting book, though, and I highly recommend
it.
From shal  Tue Mar 28 15:15:23 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL 
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Some of the controls folks are talking about already exists or are easily 
implemented with current technology.  WWW browsing software can be set to 
control what is accessed.  Sites for educational use can be set up to 
access only what you want.  Many of the sites for downloading erotica are 
FTP only -- this means you have to know the computer address and FTP 
protocol to get there (and passwords may be used). This is very 
different from putting the material on a public Web server or Gopher where 
people can stumble on it by browsing. Private WWW servers and Gophers are 
also possible, and done. That is a server that people only have access to 
if they know the url, and perhaps also a password. Sure, kids can get 
hold of the passwords or find their way in. But at least it should be 
understood that putting information "on the internet" does not 
necessarily mean that it is instantly publicly available through casual 
browsing.

So this is not an either or situation - it is possible to keep the 
internet streets safe for kids and also have legal adult materials 
available.

Stephanie
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 16:58:07 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty 
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the 
internet.  There are already bills floating around Congress attempting to 
do just this, and I fear that the media hype of the net as the last 
refuge for kiddie pornographers only adds fuel to the Bradburian fire.  
We need to figure out ways to increase access to information technology, 
not restrict it.  I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I 
wonder how we can keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking 
away the rights of the rest of us.  I'm wary of any legal remedy to this 
problem--especially when the debate is so often controlled by people who 
don't know squat about the net.

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 17:55:32 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]

Robert Jordan's series _The_Wheel_Of_Time_ features a group of characters 
called Tinkers - they are gypsies travelling through his world seeking a 
song. While they are only shown occasionally, they play a major part in 
the story.

\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 18:33:15 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:18:16 1995
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From: Jon Henderson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:53:24 PST
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF

One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him, 
I'm not sure if it qualifies.
----------
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer"  <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list  <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 5:40PM

Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From shal  Tue Mar 28 15:15:23 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL 
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Some of the controls folks are talking about already exists or are easily 
implemented with current technology.  WWW browsing software can be set to 
control what is accessed.  Sites for educational use can be set up to 
access only what you want.  Many of the sites for downloading erotica are 
FTP only -- this means you have to know the computer address and FTP 
protocol to get there (and passwords may be used). This is very 
different from putting the material on a public Web server or Gopher where 
people can stumble on it by browsing. Private WWW servers and Gophers are 
also possible, and done. That is a server that people only have access to 
if they know the url, and perhaps also a password. Sure, kids can get 
hold of the passwords or find their way in. But at least it should be 
understood that putting information "on the internet" does not 
necessarily mean that it is instantly publicly available through casual 
browsing.

So this is not an either or situation - it is possible to keep the 
internet streets safe for kids and also have legal adult materials 
available.

Stephanie
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 16:58:07 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty 
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the 
internet.  There are already bills floating around Congress attempting to 
do just this, and I fear that the media hype of the net as the last 
refuge for kiddie pornographers only adds fuel to the Bradburian fire.  
We need to figure out ways to increase access to information technology, 
not restrict it.  I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I 
wonder how we can keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking 
away the rights of the rest of us.  I'm wary of any legal remedy to this 
problem--especially when the debate is so often controlled by people who 
don't know squat about the net.

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 17:55:32 1995
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          id AA50951; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:55:32 -0500
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]

Robert Jordan's series _The_Wheel_Of_Time_ features a group of characters 
called Tinkers - they are gypsies travelling through his world seeking a 
song. While they are only shown occasionally, they play a major part in 
the story.

\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 18:33:15 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA186443593; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:18:16 1995
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From: Jon Henderson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:53:24 PST
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF

One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him, 
I'm not sure if it qualifies.
----------
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer"  <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list  <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 5:40PM

Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 16:58:07 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty 
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the 
internet.  There are already bills floating around Congress attempting to 
do just this, and I fear that the media hype of the net as the last 
refuge for kiddie pornographers only adds fuel to the Bradburian fire.  
We need to figure out ways to increase access to information technology, 
not restrict it.  I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I 
wonder how we can keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking 
away the rights of the rest of us.  I'm wary of any legal remedy to this 
problem--especially when the debate is so often controlled by people who 
don't know squat about the net.

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 17:55:32 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]

Robert Jordan's series _The_Wheel_Of_Time_ features a group of characters 
called Tinkers - they are gypsies travelling through his world seeking a 
song. While they are only shown occasionally, they play a major part in 
the story.

\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 18:33:15 1995
Received: from cari.telecom.uqam.ca by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA51142; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:15 -0500
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:18:16 1995
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From: Jon Henderson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:53:24 PST
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF

One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him, 
I'm not sure if it qualifies.
----------
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer"  <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list  <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 5:40PM

Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 17:55:32 1995
Received: from Paul.spu.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]

Robert Jordan's series _The_Wheel_Of_Time_ features a group of characters 
called Tinkers - they are gypsies travelling through his world seeking a 
song. While they are only shown occasionally, they play a major part in 
the story.

\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 18:33:15 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA186443593; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:18:16 1995
Received: from netmail2.microsoft.com by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Received: by netmail2 using fxenixd 1.0 Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:19:12 PST
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From: Jon Henderson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:53:24 PST
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF

One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him, 
I'm not sure if it qualifies.
----------
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer"  <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list  <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 5:40PM

Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:22:41 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:03:59 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
         (fwd)

Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 18:33:15 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin
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From: Jon Henderson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:53:24 PST
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF

One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him, 
I'm not sure if it qualifies.
----------
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer"  <[log in to unmask]>
To: Multiple recipients of list  <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 1995 5:40PM

Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
romanies and other travellers as characters?

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:22:41 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
         (fwd)

Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:24:53 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 00:11:00 UTC
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Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
X-Genie-Id: 5560598
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BECOMING HUMAN is one book of a trilogy by Rebecca Ore.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:22:41 1995
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Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
         (fwd)

Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:24:53 1995
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Subject: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
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BECOMING HUMAN is one book of a trilogy by Rebecca Ore.

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:35:39 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 03:26:42 +0200
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Subject: STRANNIK AWARDS WINNERS
Lines: 27

WINNERS OF STRANNIK AWARDS.

On March 25, 1995 in Krasnoyarsk during SibCon special genre
awards STRANNIK (WANDERER) found their owners.

SWORD IN STONE - for fantasy:
Mikhail Uspensky. THERE, WHERE WE ARE NOT PRESENT.
Den I Noch magazine, 1994.

MOON SWORD - for horror:
Andrey Lazarchuk. MUMMY.
Terra Fantastica, 1993.

MIRROR SWORD - for alternate history:
Vyacheslav Rybakov. STAR SHIP "TSESAREVICH".
Neva magazine, 1993.

SWORD OF RUMATA - for heroic-romantic SF&F:
Sergey Lukyanenko. THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS.
Terra Fantastica, 1992.

The nomination years were: 1992-1994.

received from Sergey Berezhnoy.
translated into English by Boris Sidyuk

Full nomination list available (was sent once)
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 19:41:04 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: biological sf
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Two stories come to mind that might be of interest in regard to SF that is 
focused on biological matters:  Octaviaalien Butler's "Bloodchild" deals with a 
very alien and unnerving form of symbiosis; Harry Turtledove's "Vermin" 
explores alien ecology and reproduction while fusing this focus with the dual 
roles of imperialist blindness to native lives  mirrored against puritanical 
religious sexual repression.  Good stuff!  Rick Collier

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 20:07:19 1995
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From: Bryn Kanar - UCSC Science Library <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
To: [log in to unmask]
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In sam Delany's "Nova" the character Mouse is a gypsy, if memory serves.

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 20:39:16 1995
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From: "Raphael Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Empires of Rhyme, Indies of Calculus
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:22:57 -0700
Subject:       Re: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
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Dixit [log in to unmask] ad [log in to unmask] in re BIOLOGY, 
ETC. IN SF:

> BECOMING HUMAN is one book of a trilogy by Rebecca Ore.

Yep, it's on my shelf right next to A FIRE IN THE GRAVITY.

Actually, BECOMING HUMAN is a recent book by Valerie J. Freireich 
(her first, I believe).  Ore's trilogy is:

   BECOMING ALIEN
   BEING ALIEN
   HUMAN TO HUMAN

Regarding biology in SF:  Janet Kagan's MIRABILE has a lot of 
biology, though much of it is (deliberately) loopy.

--
[log in to unmask]  | Raphael Carter |  [log in to unmask]
<a href="http://www.indirect.com/user/raphael/">Androgyny RAQ</a>
  For Jain mailing list, send me mail w/subject "info jain-l"
    <plug>THE FORTUNATE FALL, Tor Books Spring 1996</plug>
From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 20:58:23 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 17:40:31 PDT
From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Subject: Tom Corbett
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Re: Tom Corbett

I believe there were 8 books in the series. I have the first three:

Danger in Deep Space
Stand By For Mars!
On the Trail of the Space Pirates.

(in no particular order. I'm at work, the books are home, and my Newton-based
book inventory 
doesn't include volume numbers. :)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:22:56 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Biology

Karl Kapek's _War with the Newts_ uses niche theory and other ecological
aspects.  However, it's a lenghty book and deals with much more than that.
Samuel Delaney as several short stories dealing with genetics but I'm afraid
I don't remember titles.

Andy Miller

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:27:40 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 20:27:12 CST
From: patricia sayre mccoy <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:31 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 

Try _Siduri's net_, jsut published late 1994 in paperback.  Sorry, I don't 
have the book with me and forgot the author.  But it shouldn't be hard to
find.  and didn't Robert Silverberg write _Star of the Gypsies_?

Patricia Sayre McCoy                      Cataloging Supervisor
[log in to unmask]                      D'Angelo Law Library
uclpsm1@uchimvs1 (Bitnet)                 University of Chicago



From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 20:58:23 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Subject: Tom Corbett
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Re: Tom Corbett

I believe there were 8 books in the series. I have the first three:

Danger in Deep Space
Stand By For Mars!
On the Trail of the Space Pirates.

(in no particular order. I'm at work, the books are home, and my Newton-based
book inventory 
doesn't include volume numbers. :)

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:22:56 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 21:22:02 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Biology

Karl Kapek's _War with the Newts_ uses niche theory and other ecological
aspects.  However, it's a lenghty book and deals with much more than that.
Samuel Delaney as several short stories dealing with genetics but I'm afraid
I don't remember titles.

Andy Miller

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:27:40 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 20:27:12 CST
From: patricia sayre mccoy <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:31 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 

Try _Siduri's net_, jsut published late 1994 in paperback.  Sorry, I don't 
have the book with me and forgot the author.  But it shouldn't be hard to
find.  and didn't Robert Silverberg write _Star of the Gypsies_?

Patricia Sayre McCoy                      Cataloging Supervisor
[log in to unmask]                      D'Angelo Law Library
uclpsm1@uchimvs1 (Bitnet)                 University of Chicago


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:29:41 1995
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From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, BERARD SYLVIE wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> > Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> > romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
> Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
> Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
> Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

***
I'm currently reading _The Maerlande Chronicles_ which may be 
the Vonarburg title referred to here.  It features characters, mainly 
female (few men are born in this after the collapse setting), who have 
specialized roles - including that of "explora".

Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:25 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:24 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd) (De...

Please note that the American edition of John Wyndham's "The Chrysalids
was titled "Re-birth.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:36 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:47 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Hal Clement is your man for speculation on Biology.
Eye of the Needle
Cycle of Fire
Mission of Gravity
Ocean on Top

Robert L Forward   -- Flight of the Dragonfly


Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
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On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:27:40 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 20:27:12 CST
From: patricia sayre mccoy <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:31 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 

Try _Siduri's net_, jsut published late 1994 in paperback.  Sorry, I don't 
have the book with me and forgot the author.  But it shouldn't be hard to
find.  and didn't Robert Silverberg write _Star of the Gypsies_?

Patricia Sayre McCoy                      Cataloging Supervisor
[log in to unmask]                      D'Angelo Law Library
uclpsm1@uchimvs1 (Bitnet)                 University of Chicago


From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 21:29:41 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:23:57 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
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On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, BERARD SYLVIE wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:
> 
> > Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> > romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
> Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
> Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
> Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

***
I'm currently reading _The Maerlande Chronicles_ which may be 
the Vonarburg title referred to here.  It features characters, mainly 
female (few men are born in this after the collapse setting), who have 
specialized roles - including that of "explora".

Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:25 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:24 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd) (De...

Please note that the American edition of John Wyndham's "The Chrysalids
was titled "Re-birth.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:47 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:46 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Hal Clement is your man for speculation on Biology.
Eye of the Needle
Cycle of Fire
Mission of Gravity
Ocean on Top

Robert L Forward   -- Flight of the Dragonfly


Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:17:40 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Encoding: 19 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0


On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:25 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:24 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: sf for children (fwd) (De...

Please note that the American edition of John Wyndham's "The Chrysalids
was titled "Re-birth.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:47 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:46 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Hal Clement is your man for speculation on Biology.
Eye of the Needle
Cycle of Fire
Mission of Gravity
Ocean on Top

Robert L Forward   -- Flight of the Dragonfly


Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA42289; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
Received: from showme.missouri.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA34593; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 01:12:19 -0500
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
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On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:47 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:46 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Hal Clement is your man for speculation on Biology.
Eye of the Needle
Cycle of Fire
Mission of Gravity
Ocean on Top

Robert L Forward   -- Flight of the Dragonfly


Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
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On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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               Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:24:54 +0200
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:47 1995
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	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA274856886; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:46 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:46 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Hal Clement is your man for speculation on Biology.
Eye of the Needle
Cycle of Fire
Mission of Gravity
Ocean on Top

Robert L Forward   -- Flight of the Dragonfly


Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
Received: from showme.missouri.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA34593; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 01:12:19 -0500
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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     Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:22:12 +0100
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:17:40 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Encoding: 19 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0


On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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Message-Id: <"49330.95/03/29.10:24*/G=Kjell/S=Egerdal/PRMD=notis/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=NO/"@MHS>
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From shal  Tue Mar 28 22:32:49 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA42289; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
Received: from showme.missouri.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA34593; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 01:12:19 -0500
Received: from Mizzou-TS5-13.missouri.edu by showme.missouri.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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     Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:22:12 +0100
Received: from msmail.uce.ac.uk by admiss.uce.ac.uk; Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:21:44 GMT
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:17:40 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Encoding: 19 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0


On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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From: "Kjell M. Egerdal" <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 01:12:19 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:12:27 -0600
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg Foster)
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction [critical survey]

>As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in Science
>Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science fiction
>coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly genetics
>or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>
To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
numerous additional references):

     Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
          Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
          Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]

The chapter headings are as follows:

     1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
     2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
     3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
 ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
     5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
     6. The Biological Parable
     7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
          Fiction

I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.

Greg Foster
____________________________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing 
[log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From @admissions.university-central-england.ac.uk:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 02:22:22 1995
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          id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:17:40 GMT
From: Paul Vincent <[log in to unmask]>
To: sf-lit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:20:00 GMT
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On Tuesday 28 March 1995, Andy Sawyer asked:

>
>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>

Howsabout The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers? Not strictly SF, since
the time travel is achieved by magic, but the carefully worked out
unfolding of the numerous paradoxes gives a certain SFnal flavour!
Anyway, a group of gypsies figure prominently in the story.

PaulV

Paul Vincent
University of Central England
[log in to unmask]
(but speaking only for his own bemused self!)
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 03:25:32 1995
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Message-Id: <"49330.95/03/29.10:24*/G=Kjell/S=Egerdal/PRMD=notis/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=NO/"@MHS>
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
The Robert Silverberg book "Star of Gypsies".

> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
>

Kjell.

Kjell M. Egerdal
Internet: [log in to unmask]
X.400   : S=egerdal;P=notis;A=telemax;C=no;

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 07:46:50 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:46:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:56:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA

There is a book called _The Gate To Women's Country_ by Sheri Tepper 
which establishes a feminist utopia but then deals with the problems
that might occur in such a society.  I don't know if it would really
qualify as a feminist utopia because it basically says that men &
women should try to live together equally, without one dominating over
the other.  It was an interesting book, though, and I highly recommend
it.


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 07:46:50 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:46:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:56:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA

There is a book called _The Gate To Women's Country_ by Sheri Tepper 
which establishes a feminist utopia but then deals with the problems
that might occur in such a society.  I don't know if it would really
qualify as a feminist utopia because it basically says that men &
women should try to live together equally, without one dominating over
the other.  It was an interesting book, though, and I highly recommend
it.


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 07:58:01 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Stephanie Hall(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL 


Some of the controls folks are talking about already exists or are easily 
implemented with current technology.  WWW browsing software can be set to 
control what is accessed.  Sites for educational use can be set up to 
access only what you want.  Many of the sites for downloading erotica are 
FTP only -- this means you have to know the computer address and FTP 
protocol to get there (and passwords may be used). This is very 
different from putting the material on a public Web server or Gopher where 
people can stumble on it by browsing. Private WWW servers and Gophers are 
also possible, and done. That is a server that people only have access to 
if they know the url, and perhaps also a password. Sure, kids can get 
hold of the passwords or find their way in. But at least it should be 
understood that putting information "on the internet" does not 
necessarily mean that it is instantly publicly available through casual 
browsing.

So this is not an either or situation - it is possible to keep the 
internet streets safe for kids and also have legal adult materials 
available.

Stephanie


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 07:58:01 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Stephanie Hall(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 15:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL 


Some of the controls folks are talking about already exists or are easily 
implemented with current technology.  WWW browsing software can be set to 
control what is accessed.  Sites for educational use can be set up to 
access only what you want.  Many of the sites for downloading erotica are 
FTP only -- this means you have to know the computer address and FTP 
protocol to get there (and passwords may be used). This is very 
different from putting the material on a public Web server or Gopher where 
people can stumble on it by browsing. Private WWW servers and Gophers are 
also possible, and done. That is a server that people only have access to 
if they know the url, and perhaps also a password. Sure, kids can get 
hold of the passwords or find their way in. But at least it should be 
understood that putting information "on the internet" does not 
necessarily mean that it is instantly publicly available through casual 
browsing.

So this is not an either or situation - it is possible to keep the 
internet streets safe for kids and also have legal adult materials 
available.

Stephanie


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 08:11:28 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:11:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty 

	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the 
internet.  There are already bills floating around Congress attempting to 
do just this, and I fear that the media hype of the net as the last 
refuge for kiddie pornographers only adds fuel to the Bradburian fire.  
We need to figure out ways to increase access to information technology, 
not restrict it.  I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I 
wonder how we can keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking 
away the rights of the rest of us.  I'm wary of any legal remedy to this 
problem--especially when the debate is so often controlled by people who 
don't know squat about the net.

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 08:11:28 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:11:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Gary Swaty 

	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the 
internet.  There are already bills floating around Congress attempting to 
do just this, and I fear that the media hype of the net as the last 
refuge for kiddie pornographers only adds fuel to the Bradburian fire.  
We need to figure out ways to increase access to information technology, 
not restrict it.  I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I 
wonder how we can keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking 
away the rights of the rest of us.  I'm wary of any legal remedy to this 
problem--especially when the debate is so often controlled by people who 
don't know squat about the net.

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 08:26:13 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:26:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]

Robert Jordan's series _The_Wheel_Of_Time_ features a group of characters 
called Tinkers - they are gypsies travelling through his world seeking a 
song. While they are only shown occasionally, they play a major part in 
the story.

\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi



From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 08:23:42 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:23:59 EST
From: [log in to unmask] (Marina Frants)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: biological sf

Another really good biological SF novel is _Reefsong_ by Carol Severance.
It's also notable for portraying Hawaiian culture, something not often
seen in SF.

Marina Frants
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 08:49:46 1995
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	id IAA03975; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:49:45 -0500
From: Donna Gant <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SF for kids; and SF on audiotape? (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 8:49:44 EST
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>; from "Matthew S Hartman" at Mar 28, 95 7:02 pm
X-Mailer: PENELM [version 2.3.1 PL11]

Brilliance Corporation has published a lot by Ann Mccaffrey
(both her Pern books and the "Damia" ones), plus Anthony's
"Mode" books.

I think they are published in both abridged and unabridged
formats (if I am remembering the Publishers weekly ads
correctly), but our library, at least, purchases them
unabridged.


> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Hartman
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:
> 
> > Which brings me to this question:
> > 
> > Any recommendations of unabridged SF (science-fiction or -fantasy) on
> > audiotape
>    [remainder deleted] 
> 


-- 
Donna Gant
4100 Va. Beach Blvd.
Va. Beach VA 23452
ph: 804-431-3055; fax 804-431-3018
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 09:18:32 1995
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	id JAA11875; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:18:30 -0500
From: Donna Gant <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 9:18:30 EST
X-Mailer: PENELM [version 2.3.1 PL11]

L. Neil Smith's _Their majesties' bucketeers_ presents an alien
society in which trilateral symmetry is the norm.  I thought
Smith's ability to carry this to logical ends--not just
physical descriptions of the beings, but also the effect of
biology on world view, etc.--was very convincing.


Donna Gant
4100 Va. Beach Blvd.
Va. Beach VA 23452
ph: 804-431-3055; fax 804-431-3018

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:14:39 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (six books so far, seventh and final to
come soon, I believe) feature a group definitely resembling Gypsies.

Also a Mercedes Lackey book from the Diana Tregard series (title escapes me)
had Gypsies as characters.
From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:14:55 1995
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cstu,   Du meintest am / you wrote on 28.03.95
zum Thema / concerning "SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

>
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

I know of a couple of German SF radio plays available as cassettes.


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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How about Rudy Ruger's Software and Wetware?
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:45:24 1995
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From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  children's sf lit -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:
>Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is  really a
>chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way  back when I
>was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful  (perhaps the
>idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the  help of
>technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
>reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
>have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories  of
>SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.

Sounds familar - what was it about?
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:52:12 1995
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From: De Witt Douglas Kilgore <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
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You might start with some of Charles de Lint's books such as "Mulengro".  
It's marketed as fantasy rather than SF but it's a step in the right 
direction.

 On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:57:22 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
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My wife, who is a children's librarian and SF fan, would like to 
recommend some more contemporary work than most of what's been cited on 
the listserv so far.  She also would like to emphasize work children on 
the younger side of the age range, as most of it has tended toward the 
adolescent side.  A highly selective list follows.  Also, there are 
essays in the Clute and Nichols "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" under 
"Children's SF" and "Biology" (for those interested in the other topic 
running on the listserv right now).

Joanna Trefethen's list:

Wilanne Schneider Belden, "Mind-call".
John Christopher, "Empty World", "When the Tripods Came".
Bruce Coville, "Aliens ate my homework", "I left my sneakers in Dimension X".
Sylvia Louise Engdahl, "Enchantress from the stars".
Jonathan Etra, "Aliens for breakfast", "Aliens for lunch".
Lee Harding, "The fallen spaceman".
Monica Hughes - just about anything, especially Isis books.
Ted Hughes, "The iron giant".
Annette Curtis Klause, "Alien secrets".
Lois Lowry, "The giver."
Andre Norton - anything, but esp. "Star Ka'at" for younger kids.
Edward Packard, "The third planet from Altair/Choose your own adventure".
Willo Davis Roberts, "The girl with the silver eyes."
Veronica Robinson, "Delos".
Gillian Rubinstein, "Skymaze", "Space demons".
Pamela Sargent, "Alien child".
Steve Senn, "Spacebread".
Pamela Service, "Stinker from space"
William Sleator - anything, esp. "House of stairs", "Interstellar Pig".
Alfred Slote, "My trip to Alpha I".
Bob Teague, "Agent K-13, the super-spy".
Joan Vinge, "Psion".

These will help get the younger kids hooked, then they can move naturally 
into Bradbury, Asimov, etc.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:58:15 1995
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From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
>protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
>However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
>sure if it qualifies.

If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)

Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 

Was this all nonsequetor?
 [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
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I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty




From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:14:55 1995
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cstu,   Du meintest am / you wrote on 28.03.95
zum Thema / concerning "SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

>
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

I know of a couple of German SF radio plays available as cassettes.


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: biological sf
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

How about Rudy Ruger's Software and Wetware?
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:45:24 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:46:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  children's sf lit -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:
>Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is  really a
>chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way  back when I
>was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful  (perhaps the
>idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the  help of
>technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
>reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
>have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories  of
>SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.

Sounds familar - what was it about?
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:52:12 1995
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From: De Witt Douglas Kilgore <[log in to unmask]>
X-Sender: ddkilgor@lime
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <Pine.NXT.3.91.950329094901.19952B-100000@lime>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


You might start with some of Charles de Lint's books such as "Mulengro".  
It's marketed as fantasy rather than SF but it's a step in the right 
direction.

 On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:57:22 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
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My wife, who is a children's librarian and SF fan, would like to 
recommend some more contemporary work than most of what's been cited on 
the listserv so far.  She also would like to emphasize work children on 
the younger side of the age range, as most of it has tended toward the 
adolescent side.  A highly selective list follows.  Also, there are 
essays in the Clute and Nichols "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" under 
"Children's SF" and "Biology" (for those interested in the other topic 
running on the listserv right now).

Joanna Trefethen's list:

Wilanne Schneider Belden, "Mind-call".
John Christopher, "Empty World", "When the Tripods Came".
Bruce Coville, "Aliens ate my homework", "I left my sneakers in Dimension X".
Sylvia Louise Engdahl, "Enchantress from the stars".
Jonathan Etra, "Aliens for breakfast", "Aliens for lunch".
Lee Harding, "The fallen spaceman".
Monica Hughes - just about anything, especially Isis books.
Ted Hughes, "The iron giant".
Annette Curtis Klause, "Alien secrets".
Lois Lowry, "The giver."
Andre Norton - anything, but esp. "Star Ka'at" for younger kids.
Edward Packard, "The third planet from Altair/Choose your own adventure".
Willo Davis Roberts, "The girl with the silver eyes."
Veronica Robinson, "Delos".
Gillian Rubinstein, "Skymaze", "Space demons".
Pamela Sargent, "Alien child".
Steve Senn, "Spacebread".
Pamela Service, "Stinker from space"
William Sleator - anything, esp. "House of stairs", "Interstellar Pig".
Alfred Slote, "My trip to Alpha I".
Bob Teague, "Agent K-13, the super-spy".
Joan Vinge, "Psion".

These will help get the younger kids hooked, then they can move naturally 
into Bradbury, Asimov, etc.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:58:15 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:00:30 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
>protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
>However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
>sure if it qualifies.

If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)

Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 

Was this all nonsequetor?
 [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by cc.usu.edu
From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty



From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:13:36 1995
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slonczewski,  wrote on 28.03.95 concerning "Biology in science fiction":

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
> Science Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good
> science fiction coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology,
                  ^  ^  ^  ^  so just newly published stuff?



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:21:15 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:45:24 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:46:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  children's sf lit -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:
>Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is  really a
>chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way  back when I
>was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful  (perhaps the
>idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the  help of
>technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
>reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
>have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories  of
>SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.

Sounds familar - what was it about?
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:52:12 1995
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From: De Witt Douglas Kilgore <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
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You might start with some of Charles de Lint's books such as "Mulengro".  
It's marketed as fantasy rather than SF but it's a step in the right 
direction.

 On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:57:22 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
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My wife, who is a children's librarian and SF fan, would like to 
recommend some more contemporary work than most of what's been cited on 
the listserv so far.  She also would like to emphasize work children on 
the younger side of the age range, as most of it has tended toward the 
adolescent side.  A highly selective list follows.  Also, there are 
essays in the Clute and Nichols "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" under 
"Children's SF" and "Biology" (for those interested in the other topic 
running on the listserv right now).

Joanna Trefethen's list:

Wilanne Schneider Belden, "Mind-call".
John Christopher, "Empty World", "When the Tripods Came".
Bruce Coville, "Aliens ate my homework", "I left my sneakers in Dimension X".
Sylvia Louise Engdahl, "Enchantress from the stars".
Jonathan Etra, "Aliens for breakfast", "Aliens for lunch".
Lee Harding, "The fallen spaceman".
Monica Hughes - just about anything, especially Isis books.
Ted Hughes, "The iron giant".
Annette Curtis Klause, "Alien secrets".
Lois Lowry, "The giver."
Andre Norton - anything, but esp. "Star Ka'at" for younger kids.
Edward Packard, "The third planet from Altair/Choose your own adventure".
Willo Davis Roberts, "The girl with the silver eyes."
Veronica Robinson, "Delos".
Gillian Rubinstein, "Skymaze", "Space demons".
Pamela Sargent, "Alien child".
Steve Senn, "Spacebread".
Pamela Service, "Stinker from space"
William Sleator - anything, esp. "House of stairs", "Interstellar Pig".
Alfred Slote, "My trip to Alpha I".
Bob Teague, "Agent K-13, the super-spy".
Joan Vinge, "Psion".

These will help get the younger kids hooked, then they can move naturally 
into Bradbury, Asimov, etc.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:58:15 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:00:30 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
>protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
>However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
>sure if it qualifies.

If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)

Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 

Was this all nonsequetor?
 [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
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I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty



From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:13:36 1995
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slonczewski,  wrote on 28.03.95 concerning "Biology in science fiction":

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
> Science Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good
> science fiction coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology,
                  ^  ^  ^  ^  so just newly published stuff?



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:21:15 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:57:22 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
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My wife, who is a children's librarian and SF fan, would like to 
recommend some more contemporary work than most of what's been cited on 
the listserv so far.  She also would like to emphasize work children on 
the younger side of the age range, as most of it has tended toward the 
adolescent side.  A highly selective list follows.  Also, there are 
essays in the Clute and Nichols "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" under 
"Children's SF" and "Biology" (for those interested in the other topic 
running on the listserv right now).

Joanna Trefethen's list:

Wilanne Schneider Belden, "Mind-call".
John Christopher, "Empty World", "When the Tripods Came".
Bruce Coville, "Aliens ate my homework", "I left my sneakers in Dimension X".
Sylvia Louise Engdahl, "Enchantress from the stars".
Jonathan Etra, "Aliens for breakfast", "Aliens for lunch".
Lee Harding, "The fallen spaceman".
Monica Hughes - just about anything, especially Isis books.
Ted Hughes, "The iron giant".
Annette Curtis Klause, "Alien secrets".
Lois Lowry, "The giver."
Andre Norton - anything, but esp. "Star Ka'at" for younger kids.
Edward Packard, "The third planet from Altair/Choose your own adventure".
Willo Davis Roberts, "The girl with the silver eyes."
Veronica Robinson, "Delos".
Gillian Rubinstein, "Skymaze", "Space demons".
Pamela Sargent, "Alien child".
Steve Senn, "Spacebread".
Pamela Service, "Stinker from space"
William Sleator - anything, esp. "House of stairs", "Interstellar Pig".
Alfred Slote, "My trip to Alpha I".
Bob Teague, "Agent K-13, the super-spy".
Joan Vinge, "Psion".

These will help get the younger kids hooked, then they can move naturally 
into Bradbury, Asimov, etc.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:58:15 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:00:30 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
>protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
>However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
>sure if it qualifies.

If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)

Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 

Was this all nonsequetor?
 [log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by cc.usu.edu
From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
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I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty



From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:13:36 1995
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X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.02
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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Organization: Z-Netz Network Area, Germany
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slonczewski,  wrote on 28.03.95 concerning "Biology in science fiction":

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
> Science Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good
> science fiction coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology,
                  ^  ^  ^  ^  so just newly published stuff?



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 13:21:16 1995
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          id AA27616; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
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From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
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I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty



From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:13:36 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Timothy Slater)
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
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slonczewski,  wrote on 28.03.95 concerning "Biology in science fiction":

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
> Science Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good
> science fiction coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology,
                  ^  ^  ^  ^  so just newly published stuff?



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:18:49 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:22:43 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:21:15 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 13:21:16 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA27616; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:22:49 1995
Received: from sequoia.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA73450; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:22:49 -0500
Received: by vplmkii.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA190827421; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin
In-Reply-To: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:00:20 1995
Received: from sleepy.usu.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by cc.usu.edu
From: [log in to unmask] (Phil Harrison)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 
comments.  I have cited Gary Swaty below, but others also qualify.
Perhaps the sticking point is the phrase "Official censorship".  I'm not
in favor of nor do I advocate official censorship.  But I am afraid that an
attitude has developed, among artists of all sorts, that confuses 
liberty with license.  Most of us have some sort of line that we feel
should not be crossed.  We don't all agree on where that line is, but
that it exists for most of us is a fact we should not ignore.  The danger
to our society (not just to the young--are we not all capable of being
corrupted?) comes from those few who seem to recognize no boundaries
and seem to take great delight in seeing just how far they can go before
society responds in outrage.  While the hue and cry to protect the
"rights" of every member of society has a noble sound, do we not in the
process ignore the rights of the majority in the process?  I feel that my 
rights are diminished  when I am confronted constantly with debased
debasing forms of "art" or "entertainment".     I know the usual response
is "Then don't look at it!"  but that is oversimplistic.  Whether I seek it
out or not, discussion of photos of crucifixes in urine, etc. reach me.
It colors my world, and yours.  
     One of the founding fathers (Adams or Madison?) made the
 statement that democracy was only a fit form of government for
a people willing to govern themselves.  We seem to no longer qualify
for that description, with welfare abuses, abuses of power, greedy and
opportunistic lawsuits, as well as pornographic examples.  Where are
we headed?
     I expect extensive flaming, as we do enjoy freedom of speech.  Thanks
for my chance to excercise mine.   Sorry for the length.
Phil Harrison

>I am afraid that I have to come down as entirely opposed to any kind
>of official censorship of access to materials on the net. That is a can of
>worms which must not be opened. Parental control systems offered
>by some of the commercial services are an acceptable alternative.
>We cannot limit the rights of all to protect a few. When you start down
>that road you soon find more and more desiable limitations and the
>first thing you know there would be no freedom of speech, the press or
>anything else. Too many people think they know what is good for other
>people. They have a perfect right to think so, but they must not ever have
>the right to enforce their opinions.

>Gary L. Swaty



From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:13:36 1995
Received: from colin.muc.de by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.02
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Z-Netz Network Area, Germany
X-Gateway: NETCALL3.8 UM uucp-m.muc.de [UZERCP V4.52],
           ZCONNECT UM uucp-m.muc.de [CONNECT*UZERCP V0.94]
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Lines: 18      

slonczewski,  wrote on 28.03.95 concerning "Biology in science fiction":

> As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
> Science Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good
> science fiction coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology,
                  ^  ^  ^  ^  so just newly published stuff?



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:18:49 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA70955; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:18:49 -0500
Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:22:43 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:21:15 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 13:21:16 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA27616; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:22:49 1995
Received: from sequoia.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA73450; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:22:49 -0500
Received: by vplmkii.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA190827421; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin
In-Reply-To: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 11:18:49 1995
Received: from crs.loc.gov by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA70955; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:18:49 -0500
Received: from CRSMAIL-Message_Server by crs.loc.gov
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:22:43 -0500
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:21:15 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 

	         this) -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:

>	I have to agree with Gary on opposing official censorship of the  internet.
>... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
>keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
>the rest of us.

That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?

Hmmmmm.

[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 13:21:16 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA27616; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:22:49 1995
Received: from sequoia.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA73450; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:22:49 -0500
Received: by vplmkii.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca
	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA190827421; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin
In-Reply-To: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 13:21:16 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:21:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this)
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Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:22:49 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin
In-Reply-To: <01HOMUFDJWJS9PMB8T@DBV>
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On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran
From cstu  Wed Mar 29 14:32:17 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:32:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF by Sylvie Berard(Delete if you have seen this) (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Again, Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Sheri S. Tepper, _The Gate to Women's Country_
Elisabeth Vonarburg, _Motherland Chronicles [?]_
Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)
Doris Lessing, _The Memoirs of a Survivor_

Obviously, it is a recurrent *topos*, no?
	Hope this helps.

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal
	.....................................................
	"As I've already told you, I died of a broken heart."
					S. Haden Elgin



From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:40:28 1995
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From: "Brian Attebery" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  Idaho State University
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:43:06 MST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

There is an R.A. Lafferty story about the return of Gypsies
to their vanished homeland in India--called "Land of the Great 
Horses."  It can be found in Ellison's _Dangerous Visions_ or in 
Lafferty's collection _Nine Hundred Grandmothers_.

Other gypsies/travelers include Gene Wolfe's _Free Live Free_, Steven 
Brust & Megan Lindholm's _The Gypsy_, and other novels by both 
Lindholm  and Brust--as a matter of fact I believe Brust is part Rom 
himself.

These are all more or less fantasy rather than SF, with Lafferty 
falling somewhere in the unclassifiable, as usual. 


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 12:42:55 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Wed,
 29 Mar 1995 12:42:48 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:42:47 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in lit
To: [log in to unmask]
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Andy,

If you'll accept film, the 1993 film "Into the West" (Gabriel Byrne, 
Ellen Barkin, and a magic horse) featured the tinkers of Ireland.  After 
what happened to the Roms in the Holocaust, they may be among the few 
true gypsies left.

It isn't SF, but Conan Doyle's "The Speckled Band" employed gypsies as a 
red herring. :-)

Fiona Kelleghan
University of Miami
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 13:34:21 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: biological sf
X-Genie-Id: 2891412
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
 
GAE
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 13:58:11 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:22:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
X-Genie-Id: 5749623
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Raphael:
 
Re: "A FIRE IN THE GRAVITY."  A very close approximation of two of my
titles, and one I like a lot.  As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of adding
in the third book's title, coming up with A KISS IN THE FIRE IN THE GRAVITY,
and using it on the new fourth novel that I'm about to deliver to my
publisher.
 
Sometimes I have trouble with titles.  If I do use that title, I'll be sure
to credit you.
 
GAE

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 13:34:21 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: biological sf
X-Genie-Id: 2891412
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
 
GAE
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 13:58:11 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:22:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
X-Genie-Id: 5749623
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Raphael:
 
Re: "A FIRE IN THE GRAVITY."  A very close approximation of two of my
titles, and one I like a lot.  As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of adding
in the third book's title, coming up with A KISS IN THE FIRE IN THE GRAVITY,
and using it on the new fourth novel that I'm about to deliver to my
publisher.
 
Sometimes I have trouble with titles.  If I do use that title, I'll be sure
to credit you.
 
GAE
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 14:31:18 1995
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From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (six books so far, seventh and final to
> come soon, I believe) feature a group definitely resembling Gypsies.

Actually, he has said that there are at least three books remaining, and 
possibly even a tenth, before he wraps up the series.

BLATANT PLUG HERE:
Read these books if you haven't yet. I am an avid reader and can honestly 
say these are the best written, most thorough and engrossing of any 
series or individual books I have ever read.

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series:
Eye of the World
The Great Hunt
The Dragon Reborn
The Shadow Rising
Fires of Heaven
Lord of Chaos

Michelle
\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 15:00:20 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:00:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: biological sf
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

From: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
Subject: Re: biological sf

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
 
GAE

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 14:57:02 1995
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          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:19:55 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:19:55 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: RE: Biology
Lines: 8

>   Karl Kapek's _War with the Newts_

Karl Capek (pronounced KARL CHA:PECK)

But I can't agree this work of his has any ecological aspects.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:08:39 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:08:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Children's Sci-fi (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:03:59 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
         (fwd)

Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 15:29:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:31:28 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re:Rudy Rucker

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
Subject: Re: biological sf

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
  GAE


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thank you , Gary --
Speaking of Rudy Rucker - did anyone read his THE SEX SPHERE, about a
fourth dimenstional being which eats the wife of a Hungarian physicist, as
revenge for having a fourth-dimensional knot tied in it's tale by the
husband-and-wife science team.  It also decides to have further revenge by
surplanting all the world's wives and girlfriends.  The Hungarian scientist
eventually falls in love with the creature, parts of which live his trouser pocket
and speak to him in an ourrageous hungarian accent, dahling. You get the
idea.
The book was an absolute scream, and I think I was the only person on Planet
Earth who bought a copy.
Definitely NOT for children, though.
[log in to unmask] 


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 15:29:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:31:28 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re:Rudy Rucker

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
Subject: Re: biological sf

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
  GAE


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thank you , Gary --
Speaking of Rudy Rucker - did anyone read his THE SEX SPHERE, about a
fourth dimenstional being which eats the wife of a Hungarian physicist, as
revenge for having a fourth-dimensional knot tied in it's tale by the
husband-and-wife science team.  It also decides to have further revenge by
surplanting all the world's wives and girlfriends.  The Hungarian scientist
eventually falls in love with the creature, parts of which live his trouser pocket
and speak to him in an ourrageous hungarian accent, dahling. You get the
idea.
The book was an absolute scream, and I think I was the only person on Planet
Earth who bought a copy.
Definitely NOT for children, though.
[log in to unmask] 


From shal  Wed Mar 29 15:42:21 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Phil Harrison
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Phil Harrison wrote:

> I am disturbed by some of the comments on pornography on the net
> the the attendant brouhaha about censorship.  What concerns me is
> the "anything goes" attitude that seems to underly some of the 

Hold on, before we get into an argument about what is and what is not 
obscene (which will be a digression that might crash the list) - let me 
give a little background on what is being discussed.  Some of the 
proposed limitations on the Internet would be far _more_ restrictive than 
any current legal definitions of obscene materials. One version I saw 
included "all nudity" for example.  What would that mean?  Would the online 
museums have to take down images of nude paintings and sculptures? Should 
listserv groups that stay well within the confines of current definitions 
of legal printed materials be taken off line because sexuality is 
discussed (as has happened to Camille's group)?

No one I know of is advocating that currently illegal activities should 
be legalized - so it is not an "anything goes" attitude.  But, it seems to 
me, that providing sensible access precautions, what is legal in printed 
media should be legal on the net.  Networks should not be subjected to 
the same criterion as broadcast media (as some propose), because they are 
not the same as broadcast media.  Nor should even stricter standards be set 
(as some others propose) simply because people are afraid of a new media 
that they don't understand.

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]

From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:38:20 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:38:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: WINNERS OF STRANNIK AWARDS (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by colleen


From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 03:26:42 +0200
Subject: STRANNIK AWARDS WINNERS

WINNERS OF STRANNIK AWARDS.

On March 25, 1995 in Krasnoyarsk during SibCon special genre
awards STRANNIK (WANDERER) found their owners.

SWORD IN STONE - for fantasy:
Mikhail Uspensky. THERE, WHERE WE ARE NOT PRESENT.
Den I Noch magazine, 1994.

MOON SWORD - for horror:
Andrey Lazarchuk. MUMMY.
Terra Fantastica, 1993.

MIRROR SWORD - for alternate history:
Vyacheslav Rybakov. STAR SHIP "TSESAREVICH".
Neva magazine, 1993.

SWORD OF RUMATA - for heroic-romantic SF&F:
Sergey Lukyanenko. THE KNIGHTS OF THE FORTY ISLANDS.
Terra Fantastica, 1992.

The nomination years were: 1992-1994.

received from Sergey Berezhnoy.
translated into English by Boris Sidyuk

Full nomination list available (was sent once)


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:47:31 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:47:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Tom Corbett (Delete if you have seen this) 
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: [log in to unmask] (Dave Howell)
Subject: Tom Corbett

Re: Tom Corbett

I believe there were 8 books in the series. I have the first three:

Danger in Deep Space
Stand By For Mars!
On the Trail of the Space Pirates.

(in no particular order. I'm at work, the books are home, and my Newton-based
book inventory 
doesn't include volume numbers. :)




From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:48:46 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:48:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF (Delete if you have seen this)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 20:27:12 CST
From: patricia sayre mccoy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 

Try _Siduri's net_, jsut published late 1994 in paperback.  Sorry, I don't 
have the book with me and forgot the author.  But it shouldn't be hard to
find.  and didn't Robert Silverberg write _Star of the Gypsies_?

Patricia Sayre McCoy                      Cataloging Supervisor
[log in to unmask]                      D'Angelo Law Library
uclpsm1@uchimvs1 (Bitnet)                 University of Chicago



From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:49:39 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:49:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:Children's SF-Delete if you have seen this
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:50:54 1995
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          id AA60498; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:50:54 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:50:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in SF-Delete if you have seen this
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction


You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]



From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:49:39 1995
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          id AA30441; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:49:39 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:49:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:Children's SF-Delete if you have seen this
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 17:50:54 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA60498; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:50:54 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:50:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in SF-Delete if you have seen this
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Reposted by Colleen.

From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction


You might find several stories of interest in the anthology _Alien Sex_ 
edited by Ellen Datlow. "Omnisexual" by Geoff Ryman deals with DNA encoding 
in a most unusual way, for example.

Ditto in the recent anthology of James Tiptree's best _Her Smoke Rose Up 
Forever_ (hardback, Arkham House publishers, 1990 -- I'm not sure if it 
is still in print, but you may find it at your library).  
"The Screwfly Solution" is a must read.

I can think of a number of humans-come-to-terms-with-alien-ecology 
stories that might be of interest.  Two favorites are _Jem_ by Fred Pohl, 
and the novella "Vaster than Empires and More Slow" by LeGuin.

For something completely different - evolution meets Biblical 
creation on most friendly and humorous terms in "Ecce Homonid" by 
Esther Friesner. Available in bound form from Pulphouse's Short Story 
Paperbacks (1991)

I need help with this last one -- I can't remember the title.  It is a 
story by Elizabeth Moon in her anthology _Lunar Activity_ (it may be the 
last story in the volume). It concerns the discovery of a parasite that 
eats cancer cells and the first experimental patient using this as a 
cure.  It seems the animal rights extremists get wind of the medical 
experiment and decide that the parisites need rescuing. A fun read -- now 
if I could just remember who I loaned my copy to ...

Stephanie

Opinons mine
[log in to unmask]


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 15:48:03 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:47:58 -0600
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Christina writes:
>That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access 
dirty pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect 
children? >Hmmmmm.

Come one, Christina.  Do you really think Matthew is addressing his right to 
access "dirty pictures"?  I propose that we let Jesse Helm decide what we 
can and cannot allow on the net (and BBS's).  After all, he knows what's 
best for all us children.  By the way, goodbye any hint of feminism.

Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 15:48:03 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:47:58 -0600
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

Christina writes:
>That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access 
dirty pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect 
children? >Hmmmmm.

Come one, Christina.  Do you really think Matthew is addressing his right to 
access "dirty pictures"?  I propose that we let Jesse Helm decide what we 
can and cannot allow on the net (and BBS's).  After all, he knows what's 
best for all us children.  By the way, goodbye any hint of feminism.

Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 16:00:58 1995
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          id AA81802; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:00:58 -0500
Received: from unixs2.cis.pitt.edu ([log in to unmask] [136.142.185.29])
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          ID <[log in to unmask]> for <[log in to unmask]>;
          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:53:06 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:53:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Thom <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: THE BILL from Matthew Hartman (Delete if you have seen 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:
<snip>
> >... I'm not saying there's nothing nasty out there, but I  wonder how we can
> >keep it from warping the minds of minors without taking  away the rights of
> >the rest of us.
> 
> That last sentence is pretty telling.  So you feel your right to access dirty
> pictures online is more important than a community duty to protect children?
> <snip>

First, the only thing in danger of the CENSORSHIP bill here IS NOT just 
dirty pictures.  That information which any book-burner might consider 
"obscene" could be axed.  Take, for example, discussion groups on gay 
issues.  They might be considered obscene from some closed-minded, bigot, 
and ill-informed congressperson.  Those dis. groups could be censored by 
this thing.  Besides, just because you don't like dirty pictures does not 
give you the right to prevent someone else the access to them.

As a sf lovers, I believe we should be especially aware of the importance 
of freedom of speech.  Much of sf deals w/ controversial issues.  Where 
will the CENSORSHIP stop?  No one can know.  Once it starts it just goes 
and goes and goes.  I love my sci-fi.  I treasure all things I read.  
And, I detest the thought of having the exchange of ideas, not matter on 
what form the come in, squashed by some government.  

Second, what is this COMMUNITY DUTY TO PROTECT CHILDREN?  Who will make 
the decisions, what decisions will be made, for whose children will they 
be made for?  The job of "protecting" children from what someone might 
deem "obscene" is the job of the child's parents.  An entire community 
does not have the right to force its ideas of what is obscene on me, or 
my children if that were the case.  Also, I refuse to have my rights 
taken away because some parents are unable to decide and enforce what 
information their children will be exposed to.  The world is mostly made 
up of adults with rational minds.  They can make their own decisions 
concerning what they will read and access on the net.

The censorship bill that was added to the telecom. reform is nothing but 
CENSORSHIP and is nothing less than BOOK BURNING.  As citizens of the US, 
it is our duty to protect the CONSTITUTION.  Lets make our legislators 
aware of how we feel.  Lets try and get them to vote FOR the people to 
protect our rights as US citizens.

Thomas
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 17:37:07 1995
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X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:37:08 -0600
From: John Jamison <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this) -Reply



On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Of course, there is Mulengro by Charles Delint

From eaj  Wed Mar 29 17:56:35 1995
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          id AA12866; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:35 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CENTURY FYI
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 
Since this list is supposed to be o the literary end of SF, there is a new sf 
fiction magazine out called CENTURY (ISSN 1079-8145) which the Library of 
Congress just received via copyright deposit.  Issue number 1 is dated 
March/April 1995.  The magazine is edited by Robert K.J. Killhefer and 
includes fiction by Jonathan Lethem and others.   You can get more info 
by writing CENTURY at PO Box 9270, Madison, WI 53715-0270.  Anyways ...

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:00:53 1995
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          id AA30449; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CRITICAL MASS!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks for those who have sent me ideas on publicizing this list.  At the 
moment we are at around 350 subscribers and growing--and experiencing 
growing pains.  The Library's ListServ software is a little glitchy so we 
are having some problems.  While I think the list has achieved the 
critical mass it needs to keep going, before pushing for any more growth 
Colleen and I have to try to resolve various software problems 
(hopefully, by getting the Library to upgrade to the latest version of 
the software).  So, sorry about the various technical difficulties we 
have had while the list grows, but we are doing our best to smooth things 
out.  Take care.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 17:37:07 1995
Received: from pobox.cc.ukans.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA18288; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:37:07 -0500
Received: from KU_Lawrence_1-Message_Server by POBOX.CC.UKANS.EDU
	with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:43:17 -0600
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:37:08 -0600
From: John Jamison <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this) -Reply



On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Of course, there is Mulengro by Charles Delint

From eaj  Wed Mar 29 17:56:35 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA12866; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:35 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CENTURY FYI
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

 
Since this list is supposed to be o the literary end of SF, there is a new sf 
fiction magazine out called CENTURY (ISSN 1079-8145) which the Library of 
Congress just received via copyright deposit.  Issue number 1 is dated 
March/April 1995.  The magazine is edited by Robert K.J. Killhefer and 
includes fiction by Jonathan Lethem and others.   You can get more info 
by writing CENTURY at PO Box 9270, Madison, WI 53715-0270.  Anyways ...

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:00:53 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30449; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CRITICAL MASS!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks for those who have sent me ideas on publicizing this list.  At the 
moment we are at around 350 subscribers and growing--and experiencing 
growing pains.  The Library's ListServ software is a little glitchy so we 
are having some problems.  While I think the list has achieved the 
critical mass it needs to keep going, before pushing for any more growth 
Colleen and I have to try to resolve various software problems 
(hopefully, by getting the Library to upgrade to the latest version of 
the software).  So, sorry about the various technical difficulties we 
have had while the list grows, but we are doing our best to smooth things 
out.  Take care.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:00:53 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA30449; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CRITICAL MASS!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks for those who have sent me ideas on publicizing this list.  At the 
moment we are at around 350 subscribers and growing--and experiencing 
growing pains.  The Library's ListServ software is a little glitchy so we 
are having some problems.  While I think the list has achieved the 
critical mass it needs to keep going, before pushing for any more growth 
Colleen and I have to try to resolve various software problems 
(hopefully, by getting the Library to upgrade to the latest version of 
the software).  So, sorry about the various technical difficulties we 
have had while the list grows, but we are doing our best to smooth things 
out.  Take care.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From cstu  Wed Mar 29 19:35:41 1995
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          id AA46445; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:35:41 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:35:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: End of THE BILL
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This discussion is very interesting, but tempers are getting raw and most 
importantly, it has moved away from science fiction.  I will be 
discarding any replies to this topic, not due to censorship, but to keep 
us to the purpose of this list.

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 18:50:00 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:31:43 
Subject:       Re: Tom Corbett 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.11a)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

> I believe there were 8 books in the series. I have the first three:
> 
> Danger in Deep Space
> Stand By For Mars!
> On the Trail of the Space Pirates.
> 
> (in no particular order.

Yes, there were eight books:
1.  Stand by for Mars (1952)
2.  Danger in deep space (1953)
3.  On the trail of the space pirates (1953)
4.  The space pioneers (1953)
5.  The revolt on Venus (1954)
6.  Treachery in outer space (1954)
7.  Sabotage in space (1955)
8.  The robot rocket (1956)

All were originally published by Grosset & Dunlap and the author  
is listed as Carey Rockwell, with Willy Ley as "Technical Adviser".  
The TV series came first, and then the books.  I also have an old 
view-master series of slides based on a Tom Corbett adventure.

Somebody told me once that Heinlein's Space Cadet (1948) was the 
inspiration for Tom Corbett.  It was also rumored that Heinlein might 
have been the author of the Tom Corbett books.  Anyway, it was a 
great series (for a pre-teen) and a good start to a life long interest in SF.

John Espley
[log in to unmask] 

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 18:50:00 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:31:43 
Subject:       Re: Tom Corbett 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.11a)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>

> I believe there were 8 books in the series. I have the first three:
> 
> Danger in Deep Space
> Stand By For Mars!
> On the Trail of the Space Pirates.
> 
> (in no particular order.

Yes, there were eight books:
1.  Stand by for Mars (1952)
2.  Danger in deep space (1953)
3.  On the trail of the space pirates (1953)
4.  The space pioneers (1953)
5.  The revolt on Venus (1954)
6.  Treachery in outer space (1954)
7.  Sabotage in space (1955)
8.  The robot rocket (1956)

All were originally published by Grosset & Dunlap and the author  
is listed as Carey Rockwell, with Willy Ley as "Technical Adviser".  
The TV series came first, and then the books.  I also have an old 
view-master series of slides based on a Tom Corbett adventure.

Somebody told me once that Heinlein's Space Cadet (1948) was the 
inspiration for Tom Corbett.  It was also rumored that Heinlein might 
have been the author of the Tom Corbett books.  Anyway, it was a 
great series (for a pre-teen) and a good start to a life long interest in SF.

John Espley
[log in to unmask] 
From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 18:52:33 1995
Received: from [192.207.226.229] by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA25918; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:52:33 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:50:28 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Williamson Lectureship

Jack Williamson is Professor Emeritii at Eastern New Mexico University and
is in his 66th year as a published SF author.  On April 4, 1995, Eastern is
hosting the 18th annual Williamson Lectureship.  The topic this year will be
"The Humanities in the 21st Century."  Our guests are Roger Zelazny, George
R. R. Martin, Suzy McKee Charnas and Jane Lindskold.  

I tend to consider Portales, NM the middle of everywhere, unlike lots of people
who think of it as the middle of nowhere.  If anyone is heading this way next 
week and has some spare time, drop in.  Lunch is from 11:45 until 1:30; the 
panel discussion will be from 4 - 6 p.m.  A selection of the authors books will
be available for purchase and the authors will be happy to sign them.

Gene Bundy
Williamson SF Library
Special Collections Librarian
From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 19:13:40 1995
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Return-Path: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:34:00 +0200
From: [log in to unmask] (Timothy Slater)
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.02
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: inter-lib loan from SF Fnd. Lib.?
Organization: Z-Netz Network Area, Germany
X-Gateway: NETCALL3.8 UM uucp-m.muc.de [UZERCP V4.52],
           ZCONNECT UM uucp-m.muc.de [CONNECT*UZERCP V0.94]
Content-Length: 529     
Lines: 17      

Is is possible to borrow books from the SF Foundation Library via  
international (EU) inter-library loan?

Do you have an on-line catalogue with remote access?

- An SF junkie suffering a relapse,


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:06:21 1995
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          id AA66359; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Italian SF
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Reviewing the list of subsribers in an attempt to figure out which 
addresses are giving the listserv software problems, I noticed there were 
various subscribers in Italy (as well as other far off lands).  As a 
result (and because the number of overall subscribers has tripled) I 
wanted to ask a question that I had asked earlier.

Basically, as the Library of Congress' Science Fiction Recommending 
Officer I am supposed to worry about the Library's acquisition of foreign 
SF.  I tried to pass some of this burden on to our book dealers in 
various countries.  Some have balked--including our dealer in Italy.  So, 
what I am looking of is any recommendations any of you might have about 
recent original Italian SF that should be in the Library's collections.  
We are particularly interested in award-winning material.  So if anyone 
can send me the names of any active authors and recent titles that I 
should have our Italian dealer be on the lookout for, I would be 
grateful.

Thanks.  EAJ 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 18:52:33 1995
Received: from [192.207.226.229] by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA25918; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:52:33 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:50:28 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Williamson Lectureship

Jack Williamson is Professor Emeritii at Eastern New Mexico University and
is in his 66th year as a published SF author.  On April 4, 1995, Eastern is
hosting the 18th annual Williamson Lectureship.  The topic this year will be
"The Humanities in the 21st Century."  Our guests are Roger Zelazny, George
R. R. Martin, Suzy McKee Charnas and Jane Lindskold.  

I tend to consider Portales, NM the middle of everywhere, unlike lots of people
who think of it as the middle of nowhere.  If anyone is heading this way next 
week and has some spare time, drop in.  Lunch is from 11:45 until 1:30; the 
panel discussion will be from 4 - 6 p.m.  A selection of the authors books will
be available for purchase and the authors will be happy to sign them.

Gene Bundy
Williamson SF Library
Special Collections Librarian
From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 19:13:40 1995
Received: from colin.muc.de by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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Return-Path: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:34:00 +0200
From: [log in to unmask] (Timothy Slater)
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.02
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: inter-lib loan from SF Fnd. Lib.?
Organization: Z-Netz Network Area, Germany
X-Gateway: NETCALL3.8 UM uucp-m.muc.de [UZERCP V4.52],
           ZCONNECT UM uucp-m.muc.de [CONNECT*UZERCP V0.94]
Content-Length: 529     
Lines: 17      

Is is possible to borrow books from the SF Foundation Library via  
international (EU) inter-library loan?

Do you have an on-line catalogue with remote access?

- An SF junkie suffering a relapse,


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:06:21 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA66359; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Italian SF
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Reviewing the list of subsribers in an attempt to figure out which 
addresses are giving the listserv software problems, I noticed there were 
various subscribers in Italy (as well as other far off lands).  As a 
result (and because the number of overall subscribers has tripled) I 
wanted to ask a question that I had asked earlier.

Basically, as the Library of Congress' Science Fiction Recommending 
Officer I am supposed to worry about the Library's acquisition of foreign 
SF.  I tried to pass some of this burden on to our book dealers in 
various countries.  Some have balked--including our dealer in Italy.  So, 
what I am looking of is any recommendations any of you might have about 
recent original Italian SF that should be in the Library's collections.  
We are particularly interested in award-winning material.  So if anyone 
can send me the names of any active authors and recent titles that I 
should have our Italian dealer be on the lookout for, I would be 
grateful.

Thanks.  EAJ 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:06:21 1995
Received: by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA66359; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Italian SF
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Reviewing the list of subsribers in an attempt to figure out which 
addresses are giving the listserv software problems, I noticed there were 
various subscribers in Italy (as well as other far off lands).  As a 
result (and because the number of overall subscribers has tripled) I 
wanted to ask a question that I had asked earlier.

Basically, as the Library of Congress' Science Fiction Recommending 
Officer I am supposed to worry about the Library's acquisition of foreign 
SF.  I tried to pass some of this burden on to our book dealers in 
various countries.  Some have balked--including our dealer in Italy.  So, 
what I am looking of is any recommendations any of you might have about 
recent original Italian SF that should be in the Library's collections.  
We are particularly interested in award-winning material.  So if anyone 
can send me the names of any active authors and recent titles that I 
should have our Italian dealer be on the lookout for, I would be 
grateful.

Thanks.  EAJ 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 19:58:02 1995
Received: from utepvm.utep.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7010; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:10 -0700
Message-Id:  <29MAR95.19357059.0070.MUSIC@UTEP>
Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 17:55:23 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: Children's Sci-fi (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of WED 29 MAR 1995 05:11:53 MST

>Reposted by Colleen
>
>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:03:59 EST
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
>         (fwd)
>
>Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've
> forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.
>
Yes it is A.C. Crispin.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 20:03:00 1995
Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA48184; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 20:03:00 -0500
Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 29 Mar 95 19:02:46 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:02:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Daniel S Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> Other gypsies/travelers include Gene Wolfe's _Free Live Free_, Steven 
> Brust & Megan Lindholm's _The Gypsy_, and other novels by both 
> Lindholm  and Brust--as a matter of fact I believe Brust is part Rom 
> himself.
Steve Brust's ancestry is Hungarian Jewish.  He identifies himself 
ethnically as Hungarian, usually.  I don't think he has any Gypsy 
ancestry that he knows of.

Dan Goodman [log in to unmask]
From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 20:05:01 1995
Received: from utepvm.utep.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7030; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:03:10 -0700
Message-Id:  <29MAR95.19489488.0070.MUSIC@UTEP>
Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:02:44 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of TUE 28 MAR 1995 05:40:36 MST

>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
>Andy Sawyer,
>
Well, more fantasy then science but, Anne McCaffrey's Pern series
has gypsy types in one of the later books.

Gerri Schaad
Univ of Texas at El Paso

From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 19:58:02 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7010; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:10 -0700
Message-Id:  <29MAR95.19357059.0070.MUSIC@UTEP>
Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 17:55:23 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: Children's Sci-fi (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of WED 29 MAR 1995 05:11:53 MST

>Reposted by Colleen
>
>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:03:59 EST
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
>         (fwd)
>
>Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've
> forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.
>
Yes it is A.C. Crispin.

From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 20:03:00 1995
Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
          id AA48184; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 20:03:00 -0500
Received: by maroon.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 29 Mar 95 19:02:46 -0500
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:02:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Daniel S Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> Other gypsies/travelers include Gene Wolfe's _Free Live Free_, Steven 
> Brust & Megan Lindholm's _The Gypsy_, and other novels by both 
> Lindholm  and Brust--as a matter of fact I believe Brust is part Rom 
> himself.
Steve Brust's ancestry is Hungarian Jewish.  He identifies himself 
ethnically as Hungarian, usually.  I don't think he has any Gypsy 
ancestry that he knows of.

Dan Goodman [log in to unmask]
From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 20:05:01 1995
Received: from utepvm.utep.edu by rs8.loc.gov (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03)
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7030; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:03:10 -0700
Message-Id:  <29MAR95.19489488.0070.MUSIC@UTEP>
Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:02:44 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of TUE 28 MAR 1995 05:40:36 MST

>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
>Andy Sawyer,
>
Well, more fantasy then science but, Anne McCaffrey's Pern series
has gypsy types in one of the later books.

Gerri Schaad
Univ of Texas at El Paso

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:05:26 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8819; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:05:49 -0500
Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:03:09 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Biology in science fiction
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:20:02 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

      Joan, I assume you are using your own work, but if you
sometimes use movies as well as books (I do, to break things up
a bit in my sf class), I recommend SILENT RUNNING for ecology.  The
movie is pretty short on the science, but it is long on the heart of
conservation, I think.  And seems particularly apt in today's political
climate.

Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:12:06 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8936; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:11:57 -0500
Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:07:12 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:27 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Brust and LIndholm did GYPSY, which had some gliches as far as the
interaction of the Rom with the outsider.  (She let them drink out
of her own crockery, for example).  Sharianne Lewitt also did
Cyberstealth and Dancing Vac, in which the hero is of Rom descent, and
much of the meaning of the books revolves around a cultural misunderstanding
about his motivations.  They were both very good, I thought, and Lewitt's
books are much more interesting and complex than they were marketed, but
you have to know a bit about cross cultural communication to get the
point, so I suspect a lot of the readers just thought they were war stories .

Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:42:05 1995
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Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:39:34 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:54:32 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Tepper's "Gate..." is usually studied as a feminist Utopia.  Although
the women in the town have a higher goal of bringing the sexes together,
it is still pretty separatist when the book ends.  But, I hadn't thought
a feminist Utopia HAD to throw out all the men.  It just seems that a lot
of them do.

Camille

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:12:06 1995
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From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:27 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Brust and LIndholm did GYPSY, which had some gliches as far as the
interaction of the Rom with the outsider.  (She let them drink out
of her own crockery, for example).  Sharianne Lewitt also did
Cyberstealth and Dancing Vac, in which the hero is of Rom descent, and
much of the meaning of the books revolves around a cultural misunderstanding
about his motivations.  They were both very good, I thought, and Lewitt's
books are much more interesting and complex than they were marketed, but
you have to know a bit about cross cultural communication to get the
point, so I suspect a lot of the readers just thought they were war stories .

Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:42:05 1995
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Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:39:34 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:54:32 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Tepper's "Gate..." is usually studied as a feminist Utopia.  Although
the women in the town have a higher goal of bringing the sexes together,
it is still pretty separatist when the book ends.  But, I hadn't thought
a feminist Utopia HAD to throw out all the men.  It just seems that a lot
of them do.

Camille
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:44:51 1995
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Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:42:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen this)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:27:54 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Ahem.  Gypsies, Or Rom, are not Jews--they are Rom.  They are not
Tinkers--they are Rom.  Different languages, different ethnic heritage,
different cultural heritage.  Did the original requestor want Rom,
or wandering peoples of European background?  (If the latter, I will
rethink my suggestions.)
Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:41 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:40 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Andy Sawyer asks,

>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?

Citizen of the Galaxy by Robert A. Heinlein
Starways by Poul Anderson [Ace Books NY 1956, Ace #D-568]

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:44 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Silvie Berard wrote concerning Gypsy books:

>Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)

The Book of Skaith
Including:
   The Ginger Star
   The Hounds of Skaith
   The Reavers of Skaith

Gary
Gary L. Swaty
.
   

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:44:51 1995
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Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:42:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen this)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:27:54 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Ahem.  Gypsies, Or Rom, are not Jews--they are Rom.  They are not
Tinkers--they are Rom.  Different languages, different ethnic heritage,
different cultural heritage.  Did the original requestor want Rom,
or wandering peoples of European background?  (If the latter, I will
rethink my suggestions.)
Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:41 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:40 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Andy Sawyer asks,

>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?

Citizen of the Galaxy by Robert A. Heinlein
Starways by Poul Anderson [Ace Books NY 1956, Ace #D-568]

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:44 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Silvie Berard wrote concerning Gypsy books:

>Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)

The Book of Skaith
Including:
   The Ginger Star
   The Hounds of Skaith
   The Reavers of Skaith

Gary
Gary L. Swaty
.
   

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:44 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Silvie Berard wrote concerning Gypsy books:

>Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)

The Book of Skaith
Including:
   The Ginger Star
   The Hounds of Skaith
   The Reavers of Skaith

Gary
Gary L. Swaty
.
   

From cstu  Thu Mar 30 08:55:26 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:55:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Repostings in the future
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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The SF-LIT LISTPROC is being very difficult right now and we have not 
been able to pin point the source of the problem (we are working on 
this).  Because I have 19 messages that at least I have not seen in my 
box, I am going to repost them, but as one big message.  Think of this as 
the repost digest.  To allow me some free time to deal with the LISTPROC 
problem, I am going to continue to do this batching of repostings until 
we can get the problem fixed, hopefully very soon.  Thank you all for 
your patience.
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]


From cstu  Thu Mar 30 09:02:46 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-28/29-95
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---------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Tue Mar 28 22:14:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:14:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SF

Christine Callahan wrote:
>
>There was  also something by  Alan Nourse I enjoyed, but  I can't
>for  the  life  of  me remember the title.

The ones that come to mind are:

    Trouble on Titan   -- Persecuted miners plot to escape the Solar System
    Star Surgeon  -- Alien graduate of Earth medical school fights for
acceptance
                            from his fellow doctors.
    Rocket to Limbo -- Expedition to Wolf 359 discovers telepathic human
survivors of a
                                generation starship crash.

Gary
Gary L. Swaty


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 09:18:32 1995
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From: Donna Gant <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Biology in science fiction
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 9:18:30 EST
X-Mailer: PENELM [version 2.3.1 PL11]

L. Neil Smith's _Their majesties' bucketeers_ presents an alien
society in which trilateral symmetry is the norm.  I thought
Smith's ability to carry this to logical ends--not just
physical descriptions of the beings, but also the effect of
biology on world view, etc.--was very convincing.


Donna Gant
4100 Va. Beach Blvd.
Va. Beach VA 23452
ph: 804-431-3055; fax 804-431-3018

----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:14:55 1995
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Subject: Re: SF on audiotape?
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cstu,   Du meintest am / you wrote on 28.03.95
zum Thema / concerning "SF for kids; and SF on audiotape?

>
> What else--in "print" or out--is out there?

I know of a couple of German SF radio plays available as cassettes.


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##


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>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:45:24 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:46:43 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  children's sf lit -Reply

[log in to unmask] writes:
>Just thought I's get in on this chit/chat:  I don't recall if this one is  really a
>chldren's book, but it was virtually the first SF novel I read (way  back when I
>was eleven or twelve), and I found it so imaginatively powerful  (perhaps the
>idea of alternative universes into which we could step with the  help of
>technology was important to a young male geek) that i never stopped 
>reading SF after that...and yet i suspect it is a novel that very few people 
>have heard of (well, at least it never seems to come up in critical histories  of
>SF):  COSTIGAN'S NEEDLE.

Sounds familar - what was it about?
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 10:57:22 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Children's SF
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 07:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: [log in to unmask] (Dan Trefethen)
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My wife, who is a children's librarian and SF fan, would like to 
recommend some more contemporary work than most of what's been cited on 
the listserv so far.  She also would like to emphasize work children on 
the younger side of the age range, as most of it has tended toward the 
adolescent side.  A highly selective list follows.  Also, there are 
essays in the Clute and Nichols "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" under 
"Children's SF" and "Biology" (for those interested in the other topic 
running on the listserv right now).

Joanna Trefethen's list:

Wilanne Schneider Belden, "Mind-call".
John Christopher, "Empty World", "When the Tripods Came".
Bruce Coville, "Aliens ate my homework", "I left my sneakers in Dimension X".
Sylvia Louise Engdahl, "Enchantress from the stars".
Jonathan Etra, "Aliens for breakfast", "Aliens for lunch".
Lee Harding, "The fallen spaceman".
Monica Hughes - just about anything, especially Isis books.
Ted Hughes, "The iron giant".
Annette Curtis Klause, "Alien secrets".
Lois Lowry, "The giver."
Andre Norton - anything, but esp. "Star Ka'at" for younger kids.
Edward Packard, "The third planet from Altair/Choose your own adventure".
Willo Davis Roberts, "The girl with the silver eyes."
Veronica Robinson, "Delos".
Gillian Rubinstein, "Skymaze", "Space demons".
Pamela Sargent, "Alien child".
Steve Senn, "Spacebread".
Pamela Service, "Stinker from space"
William Sleator - anything, esp. "House of stairs", "Interstellar Pig".
Alfred Slote, "My trip to Alpha I".
Bob Teague, "Agent K-13, the super-spy".
Joan Vinge, "Psion".

These will help get the younger kids hooked, then they can move naturally 
into Bradbury, Asimov, etc.

--Dan Trefethen
[log in to unmask]



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 13:58:11 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:22:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BIOLOGY, ETC. IN SF
X-Genie-Id: 5749623
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Raphael:
 
Re: "A FIRE IN THE GRAVITY."  A very close approximation of two of my
titles, and one I like a lot.  As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of adding
in the third book's title, coming up with A KISS IN THE FIRE IN THE GRAVITY,
and using it on the new fourth novel that I'm about to deliver to my
publisher.
 
Sometimes I have trouble with titles.  If I do use that title, I'll be sure
to credit you.
 
GAE


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 14:31:18 1995
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From: "Diet Cokehead (sometimes known as Michelle)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (six books so far, seventh and final to
> come soon, I believe) feature a group definitely resembling Gypsies.

Actually, he has said that there are at least three books remaining, and 
possibly even a tenth, before he wraps up the series.

BLATANT PLUG HERE:
Read these books if you haven't yet. I am an avid reader and can honestly 
say these are the best written, most thorough and engrossing of any 
series or individual books I have ever read.

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Series:
Eye of the World
The Great Hunt
The Dragon Reborn
The Shadow Rising
Fires of Heaven
Lord of Chaos

Michelle
\M\I\C\H\E\L\L\E

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                                ->  Michelle Morrell
And jigsaw must mean you                           ->  [log in to unmask]
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%                   ->  http://paul.spu.edu/~mmorrell

"There are two kinds from Asissi, steers and queers. Which one are you?"
Rimmer, addressing the wax droid of Sir Francis of Asissi


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 14:57:02 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:19:55 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: RE: Biology
Lines: 8

>   Karl Kapek's _War with the Newts_

Karl Capek (pronounced KARL CHA:PECK)

But I can't agree this work of his has any ecological aspects.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 15:29:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:31:28 -0500
From: Christina Noll <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re:Rudy Rucker

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:25:00 UTC
Subject: Re: biological sf

That's Rudy Rucker, the author of WETWARE and SOFTWARE.
  GAE


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thank you , Gary --
Speaking of Rudy Rucker - did anyone read his THE SEX SPHERE, about a
fourth dimenstional being which eats the wife of a Hungarian physicist, as
revenge for having a fourth-dimensional knot tied in it's tale by the
husband-and-wife science team.  It also decides to have further revenge by
surplanting all the world's wives and girlfriends.  The Hungarian scientist
eventually falls in love with the creature, parts of which live his trouser pocket
and speak to him in an ourrageous hungarian accent, dahling. You get the
idea.
The book was an absolute scream, and I think I was the only person on Planet
Earth who bought a copy.
Definitely NOT for children, though.
[log in to unmask] 



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 17:37:07 1995
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X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:37:08 -0600
From: John Jamison <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen 
  
	       this) -Reply



On Tue, 28 Mar 1995, Mr A.P. Sawyer wrote:

> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?

Of course, there is Mulengro by Charles Delint


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:00:53 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:00:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: CRITICAL MASS!
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks for those who have sent me ideas on publicizing this list.  At the 
moment we are at around 350 subscribers and growing--and experiencing 
growing pains.  The Library's ListServ software is a little glitchy so we 
are having some problems.  While I think the list has achieved the 
critical mass it needs to keep going, before pushing for any more growth 
Colleen and I have to try to resolve various software problems 
(hopefully, by getting the Library to upgrade to the latest version of 
the software).  So, sorry about the various technical difficulties we 
have had while the list grows, but we are doing our best to smooth things 
out.  Take care.  EAJ

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From eaj  Wed Mar 29 18:06:21 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Italian SF
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Reviewing the list of subsribers in an attempt to figure out which 
addresses are giving the listserv software problems, I noticed there were 
various subscribers in Italy (as well as other far off lands).  As a 
result (and because the number of overall subscribers has tripled) I 
wanted to ask a question that I had asked earlier.

Basically, as the Library of Congress' Science Fiction Recommending 
Officer I am supposed to worry about the Library's acquisition of foreign 
SF.  I tried to pass some of this burden on to our book dealers in 
various countries.  Some have balked--including our dealer in Italy.  So, 
what I am looking of is any recommendations any of you might have about 
recent original Italian SF that should be in the Library's collections.  
We are particularly interested in award-winning material.  So if anyone 
can send me the names of any active authors and recent titles that I 
should have our Italian dealer be on the lookout for, I would be 
grateful.

Thanks.  EAJ 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 19:58:02 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7010; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:56:10 -0700
Message-Id:  <29MAR95.19357059.0070.MUSIC@UTEP>
Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 17:55:23 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re[2]: Children's Sci-fi (Delete if you have seen this)
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of WED 29 MAR 1995 05:11:53 MST

>Reposted by Colleen
>
>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:03:59 EST
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: CHILDREN'S SCI-FI from Gary Swaty (Delete if you have seen this)
>         (fwd)
>
>Also a good sci-fi book would be the Starbridge series....unfortunately I've
> forgotten the author...i think it's Crispin.
>
Yes it is A.C. Crispin.



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 20:03:00 1995
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:02:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Daniel S Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF 
To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Brian Attebery wrote:

> Other gypsies/travelers include Gene Wolfe's _Free Live Free_, Steven 
> Brust & Megan Lindholm's _The Gypsy_, and other novels by both 
> Lindholm  and Brust--as a matter of fact I believe Brust is part Rom 
> himself.
Steve Brust's ancestry is Hungarian Jewish.  He identifies himself 
ethnically as Hungarian, usually.  I don't think he has any Gypsy 
ancestry that he knows of.

Dan Goodman [log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From @UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:FGA2@UTEP  Wed Mar 29 20:05:01 1995
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Date:        Wed, 29 Mar 95 18:02:44 MST
From: Gerri Schaad <@UTEPVM.EP.UTEXAS.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V3.1.1
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of TUE 28 MAR 1995 05:40:36 MST

>Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
>romanies and other travellers as characters?
>
>Andy Sawyer,
>
Well, more fantasy then science but, Anne McCaffrey's Pern series
has gypsy types in one of the later books.

Gerri Schaad
Univ of Texas at El Paso


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:12:06 1995
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8936; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:11:57 -0500
Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:07:12 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:42:27 -0500 from
 <[log in to unmask]>

Brust and LIndholm did GYPSY, which had some gliches as far as the
interaction of the Rom with the outsider.  (She let them drink out
of her own crockery, for example).  Sharianne Lewitt also did
Cyberstealth and Dancing Vac, in which the hero is of Rom descent, and
much of the meaning of the books revolves around a cultural misunderstanding
about his motivations.  They were both very good, I thought, and Lewitt's
books are much more interesting and complex than they were marketed, but
you have to know a bit about cross cultural communication to get the
point, so I suspect a lot of the readers just thought they were war stories .

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Wed Mar 29 22:44:51 1995
Message-Tag: 3455
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 V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9697; Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:44:54 -0500
Date:         Wed, 29 Mar 95 22:42:56 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Gypsies in SF from Michelle (Delete if you have seen this)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:27:54 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

Ahem.  Gypsies, Or Rom, are not Jews--they are Rom.  They are not
Tinkers--they are Rom.  Different languages, different ethnic heritage,
different cultural heritage.  Did the original requestor want Rom,
or wandering peoples of European background?  (If the latter, I will
rethink my suggestions.)
Camille

----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 00:41:44 1995
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	(1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA046462103; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:43 -0500
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:41:43 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

Silvie Berard wrote concerning Gypsy books:

>Leigh Brackett (I can't remember the title of her trilogy)

The Book of Skaith
Including:
   The Ginger Star
   The Hounds of Skaith
   The Reavers of Skaith

Gary
Gary L. Swaty

From cstu  Thu Mar 30 09:31:43 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:31:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: TITLE CONFUSION (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 30 Mar 1995 09:20:09 EST
From: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: TITLE CONFUSION

          Re  the title BECOMING HUMAN--it was the Valerie Freireich book I 
          was thinking of;  thank  you,  Raphael Carter,  for  the author's 
          name. I had heard of  hte Ore books but never read them, and when 
          I  came  across  the Freireich I wondered why  the  title sounded 
          familiar  but  the  author didn't.She has  an interesting ethical 
          discussion of what it means to  be human, who does  the defining, 
          and possible consequences of  such defining. I'll have  to locate 
          the  Ore  books  now  for comparison. Thanks to  both Raphael and 
          George Alec Effinger for reminding me about them. 
               Chris Callahan                                               


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 09:54:22 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:51 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software
To: "'smtp:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Hi!

I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.

Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
it would save me time.

Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
list may be interested in this subject.

Any replies would be most appreciated.


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//



From eaj  Thu Mar 30 11:00:57 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:00:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: More on Gypsies and Superhumans
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Some other gypsy-related works that may be of interest are:  GYPSIES by 
Robert Charles Wilson and CYBERSTEALTH by S.N. Lewitt.

Some other superhuman-themed works that may be of interested are:  THE 
DIVIDE by Robert Charles Wilson and MORE THAN HUMAN by Theodore Sturgeon 
(who wrote on the superhuman topic quite a bit ...).  Anyways ...

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 11:21:46 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:21:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Censorship
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Colleen Stumbaugh wrote:

> This discussion is very interesting, but tempers are getting raw and most 
> importantly, it has moved away from science fiction.  I will be 
> discarding any replies to this topic, not due to censorship, but to keep 
> us to the purpose of this list.

	Since I'm relatively new to this list, I probably shouldn't even
bring this up (I guess I'm used to participating in lists that are less
moderated than this one), but I thought that the discussion on
cybercensorship WAS science fiction.  It's certainly more bizarre than
anything Bradbury ever dreamed up.  In Bradbury's future people still read
books--enough people to be threatening anyway.  If this post makes it past
the censors, I'd like to know if anyone can think of SF that deals with
censorship in the post-print age.  It might prove instructive. 

	--Matthew

From cstu  Thu Mar 30 12:19:32 1995
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          id AA58274; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:19:32 -0500
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:19:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Censorship
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Just to hopefully keep the air clear on this subject, cybercensorship can
take place today on the Internet (as one of the earliest messages on this
topic proves) and other like nets, so this is hardly fiction.  From other
posts, people have informed me that discussions on this are taking place
on LIBREF-L and on the usenet group comp.org.eff.talk (if you do not have
a usenet reader, look at the Michigan State U. gopher for the Mercury
Newsreader).  As postings become off topic (and begin to be abusive, as
some of the last messages tended towards), I will step in as moderator. 

Please do respond to Matthew's question about censorship in SF in a 
post-print era, which is more on topic.
Colleen

Colleen Stumbaugh, Moderator and Co-owner of SF-LIT
[log in to unmask]





From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 11:44:45 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:44:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew S Hartman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: More on Gypsies 
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Has anyone mentioned _Child of Fortune_ by Norman Spinrad yet?

Matthew Hartman
[log in to unmask]
From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 12:02:39 1995
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Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:13:17 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 12:10:18 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:10:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Camille wrote:

> Tepper's "Gate..." is usually studied as a feminist Utopia.  Although
> the women in the town have a higher goal of bringing the sexes together,
> it is still pretty separatist when the book ends.  But, I hadn't thought
> a feminist Utopia HAD to throw out all the men.  It just seems that a lot
> of them do.

I wouldn't call it separatism but something like a *eugenic constitution 
of the male group*: only the good ones can join the female community 
(I hope this is not a *spoiler*). But I agree with you, a lot of feminist 
utopias seem to propose separatism as the final solution. Would you consider 
this as a pessimistic vision of the M/F cohabitation ;-) ?

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 12:02:39 1995
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Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To:  Message of Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:13:17 -0500 from <[log in to unmask]>

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 12:10:18 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:10:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: BERARD SYLVIE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA (Delete if you have seen this)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Thu, 30 Mar 1995, Camille wrote:

> Tepper's "Gate..." is usually studied as a feminist Utopia.  Although
> the women in the town have a higher goal of bringing the sexes together,
> it is still pretty separatist when the book ends.  But, I hadn't thought
> a feminist Utopia HAD to throw out all the men.  It just seems that a lot
> of them do.

I wouldn't call it separatism but something like a *eugenic constitution 
of the male group*: only the good ones can join the female community 
(I hope this is not a *spoiler*). But I agree with you, a lot of feminist 
utopias seem to propose separatism as the final solution. Would you consider 
this as a pessimistic vision of the M/F cohabitation ;-) ?

Sylvie Berard
[log in to unmask]
Universite du Quebec a Montreal

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:09:27 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:09:25 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Censorship
To: [log in to unmask]
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Perhaps I can give you another slant on censorship. I write science
fiction for a living. I've done a 4-book series set in an orbiting 
brothel (EROS ASCENDING, EROS AT ZENITH, EROS DESCENDING, EROS AT NADIR),
a novel in which the protagonist worships Satan (WALPURGIS III), a novel
in which the "true" Messiah, who is not Jesus, is a main character and
in which God has a speaking role (THE BRANCH), a series of stories which
rejects every facet of Western culture (the Kirinyaga stories), a funny
story about forced circumcision ("The Kemosabee"), and any number of other
books and stories which certain members of the reading public might find
offensive.

I have sold books to Tor, NAL, Ace, Bantam, and Warner/Questar, and stories
to virtually every magazine extant, and I have NEVER had any editor ask
me to tone down, moderate, or in any other way soften what I had to say.
It has been more than 15 years since any editor has asked me to change so
much as a single word. 

There may be science fiction about censorship, but I am happy to report
that there is no censorship in science fiction.

-- Mike Resnick

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:39:16 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 12:39:15 -0600
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From: Steve <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FEMINIST UTOPIA


  Tepper's "Gate..." is usually studied as a feminist Utopia.  Although
  the women in the town have a higher goal of bringing the sexes together,
  it is still pretty separatist when the book ends.  But, I hadn't thought
  a feminist Utopia HAD to throw out all the men.  It just seems that a lot
  of them do.

>From a psychological point of view, I read the separatist metaphor as having
disturbing overtones of shadow-stuff denied. You know: everything inside the
walls is light, everything outside is darkness. Maybe the reason so many
feminist Utopias are imagined no farther than the expulsion of the men is
because it is easier (both practically and psychologically) to deny oppression
than to transcend it. Within feminism, men are a good place to hang the
darkness (mirroring the way men have hung their darkness on women throughout
the history of male art).

One of the things I find truly remarkable about Suzy Charnas's _The Furies_ is
how honestly and courageously this kind of material is handled.

>From a feminist point of view, Tepper's _Gate to Women's Country_ seems more
problematic in regard to the relations among women and in the relations
between the women and the world. Where are the lesbians, so many generations
into a society in which most men are little more than animals and most women
mostly know only other women? And, why is it that the plot is still resolved
by the actions of men, who are (coincidentally?) stronger and more capable of
handling physical conflict than women?
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

From cstu  Thu Mar 30 14:28:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:28:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: APRIL WHAT IF FORUM (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Those outside the Library are welcome!
===================================================================== 
 
 
                 The LCPA What IF . . . Science Fiction Forum 
                                   Presents 
 
                         "SCIENCE IN SCIENCE FICTION" 
                                      By 
                         NASA Goddard Astrophysicist 
                                Dr. Yoji Kondo 
           
 
 
                         Tuesday, April 4th 12:10 PM 
                      Law Library Conference Room, LM240 
                      Madison Bldg, Library of Congress 
 
 
                    Please feel free to bring your lunch.  
==================================================================== 


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
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Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 18:57:03 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 18:56:56 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: FEMINIST UTOPIA/CONUCOPIA
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To: [log in to unmask]
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Wasn't there some book entitled alpha or adam or some such that had 
seperated societies that came together?  Also, _If I pay thee not in 
gold_ was good too.  I don't know if they are "feminist" but they deal 
with women's issues . . .

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:07:00 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:07:00 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction

Joan - 
I would suggest _The Left Hand Of Darkness_ by Ursula K. LeGuin.
The book deals to a large extent with an androgynous culture, and the world
surrounding it.
It gets into some biology, ecology, psychology, and even a touch of
xenophobia.

Gerry


From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:19:00 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:18:57 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
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Wasn't there also some biology stuff in the Jinx series by alan dean foster?

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:19:00 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:18:58 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:18:57 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Biology in science fiction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Wasn't there also some biology stuff in the Jinx series by alan dean foster?

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-
John E. Palmer, UTK-SIS student. ([log in to unmask])  _AGAPE_! 
PO Box 23758 Farragut, Tennessee 37933 USA 
". . . even an ancient artform, rhetoric, becomes a thread of art through the
labyrinth when it awakens the truth that slumbers within us" Arianna Huffington
in _THE FOURTH INSTINCT_.   GO VOLS!
_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._

From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 23:43:35 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:46:42 -0800
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Terry Rezek)
Subject: Source of quote?

Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
of the following:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

Thanks,
Terry Rezek
[log in to unmask]



From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
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To: [log in to unmask]
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 
From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 23:43:35 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:46:42 -0800
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Terry Rezek)
Subject: Source of quote?

Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
of the following:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

Thanks,
Terry Rezek
[log in to unmask]



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 00:30:38 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 00:30:11 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Romanies in SF



In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 00:37:03 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 00:36:55 EST
X-Mailer: UVa PCMail 1.9.0
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software

On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
>       (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
> +-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
> |                                                                   |
> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 07:28:31 1995
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          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:01:08 +0100
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: inter-lib loan from SF Fnd. Lib.?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:01:04 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Timothy Slater" at Mar 29, 95 07:51:18 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1041      

In the last mail Timothy Slater said:
> 
> Is is possible to borrow books from the SF Foundation Library via  
> international (EU) inter-library loan?
In theory, yes, but in practice many of our books belong to collections or
deposits which by terms of deposit are not to be loaned out of the library,
and these would probably include most of the books which people would not
be able to get hold of elsewhere.  Our catalogue is not on-line at present
and I doubt if it will be soon. For the last ten years the Foundation had
no librarian, only a part-time secretary and volunteer labour, and there
is a lot of work to do to catch up! I an currently (slowly) transferring the
card catalogue to machine-readable form  and looking at ways of funding a
major catalogue-conversion project.

We do have a large number of surplus books and magazines for sale, though!

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

From eaj  Fri Mar 31 08:17:50 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:17:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 08:19:11 1995
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	(1.38.193.3/16.2) id AA11788; Fri, 31 Mar 95 07:53:37 -0500
From: Sandy Moltz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: An 11 year old's Comments
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 7:53:37 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Many of the recommendations regarding children's sci-fi, came from avid
readers who mentioned they read above their age level.  My son is a reluctant
reader who reads at the average level for his age and thought his viewpoint
might be of interest.  He liked the Commander Toad books when he was about
6 years old.  He highly recommends the Aliens for Breakfast and Aliens for
Lunch for 6 years old and up.  He discovered that there is now an Aliens for
Dinner, but by a different author (a shocking discovery for him).  He read
Ursula K. LeGuin's two Catwings books when he was 9 and 10, but he quickly
pointed out to me that they are really fantasy not sci-fi.  He loved the
book The Interstellar Pig which was read to him.  He thinks 12 year olds and
up would like reading it.  For other reluctant readers, there is also the
Goose-bumps series by R.L. Stine--scary stories geared to boys 8 and up.
This is often a difficult group to find fun books for if they aren't big
readers so this series, while not great literature, can be a great way to
get a child back into reading.  My son's favorite sci-fi:  looking at the
cover picture of my books and asking me to relate the story.  Fun for both
of us.
Sandy Moltz [log in to unmask]
From shal  Fri Mar 31 08:35:41 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:09:30 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]@lkpsun.lkp.ifsab.se
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
X-Vms-To: SMTP%"[log in to unmask]@lkpsun"


> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

As far as I know, it's Arthur C. Clarke. I don't know the source, however.

/ Hans
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:48:01 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Topicos Especiales)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nebula Awards
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:48:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Internet Chile
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:51:35 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Marlene A. Harris)
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

I believe the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke, but I don't know the book.


>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
Marlene A. Harris
Technical Services Manager
Evanston Public Library
1703 Orrington Ave.
Evanston, IL  60201

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans"

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:07:59 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:28:24 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 15:18:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Source of quote?
X-Genie-Id: 8289746
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 07:28:31 1995
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          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:01:08 +0100
From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: inter-lib loan from SF Fnd. Lib.?
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:01:04 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Timothy Slater" at Mar 29, 95 07:51:18 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1041      

In the last mail Timothy Slater said:
> 
> Is is possible to borrow books from the SF Foundation Library via  
> international (EU) inter-library loan?
In theory, yes, but in practice many of our books belong to collections or
deposits which by terms of deposit are not to be loaned out of the library,
and these would probably include most of the books which people would not
be able to get hold of elsewhere.  Our catalogue is not on-line at present
and I doubt if it will be soon. For the last ten years the Foundation had
no librarian, only a part-time secretary and volunteer labour, and there
is a lot of work to do to catch up! I an currently (slowly) transferring the
card catalogue to machine-readable form  and looking at ways of funding a
major catalogue-conversion project.

We do have a large number of surplus books and magazines for sale, though!

Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

From eaj  Fri Mar 31 08:17:50 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:17:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
	| Library of Congress		  |  FAX PM:   (202) 707-2086	|
	| Washington, DC  20540-4240	  |  Email AM&PM:  [log in to unmask]  |
	-----------------------------------------------------------------

		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 08:19:11 1995
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From: Sandy Moltz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: An 11 year old's Comments
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 7:53:37 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Many of the recommendations regarding children's sci-fi, came from avid
readers who mentioned they read above their age level.  My son is a reluctant
reader who reads at the average level for his age and thought his viewpoint
might be of interest.  He liked the Commander Toad books when he was about
6 years old.  He highly recommends the Aliens for Breakfast and Aliens for
Lunch for 6 years old and up.  He discovered that there is now an Aliens for
Dinner, but by a different author (a shocking discovery for him).  He read
Ursula K. LeGuin's two Catwings books when he was 9 and 10, but he quickly
pointed out to me that they are really fantasy not sci-fi.  He loved the
book The Interstellar Pig which was read to him.  He thinks 12 year olds and
up would like reading it.  For other reluctant readers, there is also the
Goose-bumps series by R.L. Stine--scary stories geared to boys 8 and up.
This is often a difficult group to find fun books for if they aren't big
readers so this series, while not great literature, can be a great way to
get a child back into reading.  My son's favorite sci-fi:  looking at the
cover picture of my books and asking me to relate the story.  Fun for both
of us.
Sandy Moltz [log in to unmask]
From shal  Fri Mar 31 08:35:41 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
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On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
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> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

As far as I know, it's Arthur C. Clarke. I don't know the source, however.

/ Hans
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From: [log in to unmask] (Topicos Especiales)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nebula Awards
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:48:34 -0800 (PST)
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:51:35 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Marlene A. Harris)
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

I believe the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke, but I don't know the book.


>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
Marlene A. Harris
Technical Services Manager
Evanston Public Library
1703 Orrington Ave.
Evanston, IL  60201

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans"

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:07:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:28:24 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 15:18:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Source of quote?
X-Genie-Id: 8289746
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE
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The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: dcochran
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----------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:43:32 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romanies in SF
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv



In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead


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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:50:04 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
>       (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
> +-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
> |                                                                   |
> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From cstu  Fri Mar 31 11:16:32 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:02 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From @HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:48 1995
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From: "Dan Robinson" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  The H.W.Wilson Company
To: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:36:12 EST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
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> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

Two authors come quickly to mind:

Anne McCaffrey: 
Dragonsdawn
Renegades of Pern 


Robert Heinlein:
Citizen of the galaxy 


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 08:19:11 1995
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From: Sandy Moltz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: An 11 year old's Comments
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 7:53:37 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Many of the recommendations regarding children's sci-fi, came from avid
readers who mentioned they read above their age level.  My son is a reluctant
reader who reads at the average level for his age and thought his viewpoint
might be of interest.  He liked the Commander Toad books when he was about
6 years old.  He highly recommends the Aliens for Breakfast and Aliens for
Lunch for 6 years old and up.  He discovered that there is now an Aliens for
Dinner, but by a different author (a shocking discovery for him).  He read
Ursula K. LeGuin's two Catwings books when he was 9 and 10, but he quickly
pointed out to me that they are really fantasy not sci-fi.  He loved the
book The Interstellar Pig which was read to him.  He thinks 12 year olds and
up would like reading it.  For other reluctant readers, there is also the
Goose-bumps series by R.L. Stine--scary stories geared to boys 8 and up.
This is often a difficult group to find fun books for if they aren't big
readers so this series, while not great literature, can be a great way to
get a child back into reading.  My son's favorite sci-fi:  looking at the
cover picture of my books and asking me to relate the story.  Fun for both
of us.
Sandy Moltz [log in to unmask]
From shal  Fri Mar 31 08:35:41 1995
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From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]>
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On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:09:30 1995
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> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

As far as I know, it's Arthur C. Clarke. I don't know the source, however.

/ Hans
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:48:01 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Topicos Especiales)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nebula Awards
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:48:34 -0800 (PST)
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:51:35 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Marlene A. Harris)
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

I believe the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke, but I don't know the book.


>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
Marlene A. Harris
Technical Services Manager
Evanston Public Library
1703 Orrington Ave.
Evanston, IL  60201

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans"

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:07:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:28:24 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 15:18:00 UTC
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Source of quote?
X-Genie-Id: 8289746
X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:15:43 1995
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The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: dcochran
Reason: 
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----------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:43:32 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romanies in SF
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv



In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead


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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:50:04 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
>       (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
> +-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
> |                                                                   |
> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From cstu  Fri Mar 31 11:16:32 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
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Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:02 1995
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From @HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:48 1995
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Organization:  The H.W.Wilson Company
To: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:36:12 EST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF
Cc: [log in to unmask]
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> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

Two authors come quickly to mind:

Anne McCaffrey: 
Dragonsdawn
Renegades of Pern 


Robert Heinlein:
Citizen of the galaxy 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:10:58 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
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Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

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		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
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		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:09:30 1995
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> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.

As far as I know, it's Arthur C. Clarke. I don't know the source, however.

/ Hans
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:48:01 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Topicos Especiales)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nebula Awards
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:48:34 -0800 (PST)
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:51:35 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Marlene A. Harris)
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
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I believe the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke, but I don't know the book.


>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
Marlene A. Harris
Technical Services Manager
Evanston Public Library
1703 Orrington Ave.
Evanston, IL  60201

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans"

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:07:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
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| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:28:24 1995
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Subject: Source of quote?
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Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:43:32 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romanies in SF
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv



In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead


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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:50:04 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
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> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From cstu  Fri Mar 31 11:16:32 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 22:38:41 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:02 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 08:26:55 -0700 (MST)
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From: [log in to unmask]
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From @HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:48 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dan Robinson" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  The H.W.Wilson Company
To: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:36:12 EST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22


> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

Two authors come quickly to mind:

Anne McCaffrey: 
Dragonsdawn
Renegades of Pern 


Robert Heinlein:
Citizen of the galaxy 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:10:58 1995
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The message could not be delivered to:

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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
	| Exchange & Gift Division	  |  FAX AM:   (202) 707-2615	|
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		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:35:12 1995
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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From cstu  Fri Mar 31 16:26:51 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:26:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEBULAS (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 31 Mar 1995 12:55:12 EST
From: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEBULAS

          Rodrigo Juri asked  when  the Nebuals will  be awarded, and  what=
=20
          nominees are. The awards will be announced on April 22  at Nebula=
=20
          Awards Banquet (voting by  SFWA closes today)--from March  LOCUS.=
=20
          Novels nominated: MOVING MARS by Greg Bear; PARABLE OF  THE SOWER=
=20
          by Octavia Butler; GUN, WITH OCCASIONAL MUSIC by Jonathan Lethem;=
=20
          TOWING  JEHOVAH  by  James  Morrow; TEMPORARY  AGENCY  by  Rachel=
=20
          Pollack; GREEN  MARS  by  Kim Stanley Robinson; A  NIGHT  IN  THE=
=20
          LONESOME OCTOBER by Roger Zelazny.=20
               Novellas: "Mefisto in  Onyx"  by Harlan Ellison, Omni 10-93;=
=20
          "Haunted  Humans"  by  Nina  Kiriki  Hoffman,  F  and   SF  7-94;=
=20
          "Forgiveness Day"  by Ursula LeGuin, Asimov's 11-94; "Seven Views=
=20
          of Olduvai Gorge" by Mike Resnik, F and SF 10 and 11-94; "Fan" by=
=20
          Geoff Ryman, UNCONQUERED COUNTRIES; Interzone 3  and  4-94; "Cold=
=20
          Iron" by Michael Swanwick, Asimov's, 11-93=20
               Novelettes: "Necronauts", Terry  Bisson, Playboy  7-93;  The=
=20
          Martian Child", David Gerrold, Fand SF 9-94; "The Skeleton Key" ,=
=20
          Nina K. Hoffman, F  and  SF 8-93; "The Singular Habits of Wasps",=
=20
          Geoffrey A. Landis, Analog 4-94;  "The Matter  of Segri", LeGuin,=
=20
          Crank=FF  no.  3,  spring  1994  ;  "Nekropolis",  Maureen  McHug=
h,=20
          Asimov's, 4-94=20
               Short stories: "Inspiration", Ben Bova, F and SF 4-94; "None=
=20
          So   Blind",   Joe   Haldeman,  Asimov's,  11-94;  "Understanding=
=20
          Entropy", Barry Malzberg, SF  Age 7-94; "Virtual Love", McHugh, F=
=20
          and  SF 1-94; "A Defense of  the Social Contracts", Martha Soukp,=
=20
          SF  Age,  9-93;  "I  Know  What  You're Thinking", Kate  Wilhelm,=
=20
          Asimov's 11-94.=20
               All  the  above  from  the  March LOCUS.  BTW, LeGuin's "The=
=20
          Matter of  the Seggri" tied  with Nancy Springer's LARQUE ON  THE=
=20
          WING  for  the Tiptree Award in Feb., also according to LOCUS  (I=
=20
          have  a  borrowed copy;  my preferred tipple  is  SCIENCE FICTION=
=20
          CHRONICLE, but that's at home)=20
               On  a  tangent:  since  feminist  utopias  are  a  topic  of=
=20
          dicussion and  the Tiptree is related, here's the World Wide  Web=
=20
          address  for  the  Tiptree Award homepage  for  anyone interested=
=20
          (again from LOCUS):                                              =
=20
          http:slashslashwww.cs.wisc.eduslashwisconslashtiptree.html   (had=
=20
          to  write slash because my machine thinks the symbol means  "next=
=20
          line")=20
               Chris Callahan=20
          =20
                    "Please  do   not   adjust   your   mind.  Reality   is=
=20
          malfunctioning"                                                  =
=20

From cstu  Fri Mar 31 17:02:19 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:02:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
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review sf-lit
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:59:51 1995
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From: "Gary Freiburger" <[log in to unmask]>
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Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:55:15 +0000
Subject:       Re: Source of quote?
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 ARTHUR C. CLARKE  Profiles of the Future; an inquiry into the limits of the 
possible. Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, NY, 1984

 Clarkes First Law, "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that 
something is possible he is almost certainly right.  When he states that 
something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

 Second Law, "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to 
venture a little way past them into the impossible."

 Third Law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from 
magic."

 - Gary
***********************************************************
Gary Freiburger, Deputy Director       PHONE:  410-706-7545
Health Sciences Library                FAX:    410-706-3101
University of Maryland at Baltimore
111 S. Greene St.
Baltimore, MD  21201     INTERNET: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:02:23 1995
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:03:41 1995
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"Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."
is attributed to Arthur C. Clarke.

:)
--Jim Greco
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:37:53 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:34:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Sheila D'Ammassa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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I don't know about software specifically for book inventory, but my
husband is cataloguing our collection (about 75,000 books and periodicals,
more than half of which are SF\fantasy\horror) using Microsoft Reflex, a
flat file database which has worked extremely well for him and is easy to
find and use.  He uses the collection extensively for research and is
pleased with the new system.  If you want more info, please e-mail me.


Sheila D'Ammassa
Office of Academic Affairs, Rhode Island School of Design
2 College Street, Providence RI  02903-2784
Phone:  401-454-6592   Fax:  401-454-6598    e-mail:  [log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:50:50 1995
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The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke, not Asimov.

-- Mike Resnick
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:53:15 1995
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From: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:50:21 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]> from "Terry Rezek" at Mar 31, 95 07:46:30 am
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In the last mail Terry Rezek said:
> 
> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
It was Arthur C Clarke - his Third Law. It can be found along with the other
two in PROFILES OF THE FUTURE.
> 
> 
Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:16:07 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Note: Mail transport via Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd. Calgary gateway.

Hi Terry...the quote about magic and science is from Arthur C. 
Clarke...however, I'm not sure of the source...I'd also like to use this 
message to find out if what I send is getting through...I never receive copies 
of my own messages, and so am not sure if anything is being posted...and I've 
sent several responses on Feminist Utopias and other matters...could someone 
be so good as to e-mail me and let me know if I am actually on the list?  
thanks.  rick
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:20:05 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (David Voda)
Subject: Re: Source of quote
To: [log in to unmask]

You wrote: 

>
>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct 
phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>

It was Arthur C. Clark.
>
>
>



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:40:27 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 9:40:02 GMT
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Source of quote?

The quote "Any sufficiently advenced technology is indistinguishable from
magic" 
Is from Arthur C. Clark. And I think it was in "Rendezvous with RAMA"
or "Imperial Earth". In fact, I'm almost sure its "Imperial Earth".
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:34:07 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: RE: Romanies in SF

I believe the Anne McCaffrey book with gypsies was _Renegades of Pern_.
	Brenda Antrim
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:49:47 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Dr. Robert Thompson)
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>
>Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
>1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
>I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

How do you people DO that???

Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 09:51:35 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (Marlene A. Harris)
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
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I believe the quote is from Arthur C. Clarke, but I don't know the book.


>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
Marlene A. Harris
Technical Services Manager
Evanston Public Library
1703 Orrington Ave.
Evanston, IL  60201

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans"

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:07:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
To: "'SMTP:[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
... "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:28:24 1995
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Subject: Source of quote?
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X-Genie-From: G.EFFINGER2

Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:43:32 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romanies in SF
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To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv



In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead


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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:50:04 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
>       (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
> +-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
> |                                                                   |
> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From cstu  Fri Mar 31 11:16:32 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 22:38:41 +0200
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:02 1995
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From @HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:48 1995
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From: "Dan Robinson" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization:  The H.W.Wilson Company
To: "Mr A.P. Sawyer" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:36:12 EST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22


> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

Two authors come quickly to mind:

Anne McCaffrey: 
Dragonsdawn
Renegades of Pern 


Robert Heinlein:
Citizen of the galaxy 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:10:58 1995
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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
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		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:35:12 1995
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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From cstu  Fri Mar 31 16:26:51 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEBULAS (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 31 Mar 1995 12:55:12 EST
From: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEBULAS

          Rodrigo Juri asked  when  the Nebuals will  be awarded, and  what=
=20
          nominees are. The awards will be announced on April 22  at Nebula=
=20
          Awards Banquet (voting by  SFWA closes today)--from March  LOCUS.=
=20
          Novels nominated: MOVING MARS by Greg Bear; PARABLE OF  THE SOWER=
=20
          by Octavia Butler; GUN, WITH OCCASIONAL MUSIC by Jonathan Lethem;=
=20
          TOWING  JEHOVAH  by  James  Morrow; TEMPORARY  AGENCY  by  Rachel=
=20
          Pollack; GREEN  MARS  by  Kim Stanley Robinson; A  NIGHT  IN  THE=
=20
          LONESOME OCTOBER by Roger Zelazny.=20
               Novellas: "Mefisto in  Onyx"  by Harlan Ellison, Omni 10-93;=
=20
          "Haunted  Humans"  by  Nina  Kiriki  Hoffman,  F  and   SF  7-94;=
=20
          "Forgiveness Day"  by Ursula LeGuin, Asimov's 11-94; "Seven Views=
=20
          of Olduvai Gorge" by Mike Resnik, F and SF 10 and 11-94; "Fan" by=
=20
          Geoff Ryman, UNCONQUERED COUNTRIES; Interzone 3  and  4-94; "Cold=
=20
          Iron" by Michael Swanwick, Asimov's, 11-93=20
               Novelettes: "Necronauts", Terry  Bisson, Playboy  7-93;  The=
=20
          Martian Child", David Gerrold, Fand SF 9-94; "The Skeleton Key" ,=
=20
          Nina K. Hoffman, F  and  SF 8-93; "The Singular Habits of Wasps",=
=20
          Geoffrey A. Landis, Analog 4-94;  "The Matter  of Segri", LeGuin,=
=20
          Crank=FF  no.  3,  spring  1994  ;  "Nekropolis",  Maureen  McHug=
h,=20
          Asimov's, 4-94=20
               Short stories: "Inspiration", Ben Bova, F and SF 4-94; "None=
=20
          So   Blind",   Joe   Haldeman,  Asimov's,  11-94;  "Understanding=
=20
          Entropy", Barry Malzberg, SF  Age 7-94; "Virtual Love", McHugh, F=
=20
          and  SF 1-94; "A Defense of  the Social Contracts", Martha Soukp,=
=20
          SF  Age,  9-93;  "I  Know  What  You're Thinking", Kate  Wilhelm,=
=20
          Asimov's 11-94.=20
               All  the  above  from  the  March LOCUS.  BTW, LeGuin's "The=
=20
          Matter of  the Seggri" tied  with Nancy Springer's LARQUE ON  THE=
=20
          WING  for  the Tiptree Award in Feb., also according to LOCUS  (I=
=20
          have  a  borrowed copy;  my preferred tipple  is  SCIENCE FICTION=
=20
          CHRONICLE, but that's at home)=20
               On  a  tangent:  since  feminist  utopias  are  a  topic  of=
=20
          dicussion and  the Tiptree is related, here's the World Wide  Web=
=20
          address  for  the  Tiptree Award homepage  for  anyone interested=
=20
          (again from LOCUS):                                              =
=20
          http:slashslashwww.cs.wisc.eduslashwisconslashtiptree.html   (had=
=20
          to  write slash because my machine thinks the symbol means  "next=
=20
          line")=20
               Chris Callahan=20
          =20
                    "Please  do   not   adjust   your   mind.  Reality   is=
=20
          malfunctioning"                                                  =
=20

From cstu  Fri Mar 31 17:02:19 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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review sf-lit
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:59:51 1995
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From: "Gary Freiburger" <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:55:15 +0000
Subject:       Re: Source of quote?
Priority: normal
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 ARTHUR C. CLARKE  Profiles of the Future; an inquiry into the limits of the 
possible. Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, NY, 1984

 Clarkes First Law, "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that 
something is possible he is almost certainly right.  When he states that 
something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

 Second Law, "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to 
venture a little way past them into the impossible."

 Third Law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from 
magic."

 - Gary
***********************************************************
Gary Freiburger, Deputy Director       PHONE:  410-706-7545
Health Sciences Library                FAX:    410-706-3101
University of Maryland at Baltimore
111 S. Greene St.
Baltimore, MD  21201     INTERNET: [log in to unmask]
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:03:41 1995
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"Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."
is attributed to Arthur C. Clarke.

:)
--Jim Greco
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:37:53 1995
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From: Sheila D'Ammassa <[log in to unmask]>
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I don't know about software specifically for book inventory, but my
husband is cataloguing our collection (about 75,000 books and periodicals,
more than half of which are SF\fantasy\horror) using Microsoft Reflex, a
flat file database which has worked extremely well for him and is easy to
find and use.  He uses the collection extensively for research and is
pleased with the new system.  If you want more info, please e-mail me.


Sheila D'Ammassa
Office of Academic Affairs, Rhode Island School of Design
2 College Street, Providence RI  02903-2784
Phone:  401-454-6592   Fax:  401-454-6598    e-mail:  [log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:50:50 1995
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The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke, not Asimov.

-- Mike Resnick
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In the last mail Terry Rezek said:
> 
> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
It was Arthur C Clarke - his Third Law. It can be found along with the other
two in PROFILES OF THE FUTURE.
> 
> 
Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:16:07 1995
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Hi Terry...the quote about magic and science is from Arthur C. 
Clarke...however, I'm not sure of the source...I'd also like to use this 
message to find out if what I send is getting through...I never receive copies 
of my own messages, and so am not sure if anything is being posted...and I've 
sent several responses on Feminist Utopias and other matters...could someone 
be so good as to e-mail me and let me know if I am actually on the list?  
thanks.  rick
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:20:05 1995
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From: [log in to unmask] (David Voda)
Subject: Re: Source of quote
To: [log in to unmask]

You wrote: 

>
>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct 
phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>

It was Arthur C. Clark.
>
>
>



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:40:27 1995
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Subject: RE: Source of quote?

The quote "Any sufficiently advenced technology is indistinguishable from
magic" 
Is from Arthur C. Clark. And I think it was in "Rendezvous with RAMA"
or "Imperial Earth". In fact, I'm almost sure its "Imperial Earth".
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:34:07 1995
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Subject: RE: Romanies in SF

I believe the Anne McCaffrey book with gypsies was _Renegades of Pern_.
	Brenda Antrim
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:49:47 1995
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>
>Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
>1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
>I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

How do you people DO that???

Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:30:06 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:30:06 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Nebula Awards
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
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From: "M.L. Davis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Stephanie A. Hall wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> > From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: sf for children
> > 
> > Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> > I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> > readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> > anyone with candidates for the list.
> 
Don't know if anyone has recommended this yet, but O.T. Nelson's _The 
Girl Who Owned A City_ was one of my all-time favs after I discovered 
it.  As it deals with children under the age of twelve reconsrtucting a 
society without adults, it is particularly appealing to the children of 
that age group, as is a book like _Charmed Life_ (by ?), which is full of 
young magical-types testing their abilities.

Hope it helps

Marie Davis
McMaster U.
Hamilton, Ont. Canada
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 17:16:41 1995
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Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:14:53 -0700
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> The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:
> 
> Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
> Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
> & etc

You forgot one which, I believe, is also Clarke's own:

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently 
advanced." 

--
[log in to unmask]  | Raphael Carter |  [log in to unmask]
<a href="http://www.indirect.com/user/raphael/">Androgyny RAQ</a>
  For Jain mailing list, send me mail w/subject "info jain-l"
    <plug>THE FORTUNATE FALL, Tor Books Spring 1996</plug>
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 17:33:14 1995
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Hi...I've ahd a student ask me about a time-travel novel that I know I've 
read, but I cannot scrape away the dust in my mental attic and recall the 
title.  It is about a scientist who travels back to the early US Civil War; 
apparently he wants to help the Confederacy win, and is intent upon supplying 
them with advanced machine guns.  He is pursued from the future (his present) 
into the deep south by a man of color, with the all the obvious plot 
complications (somewhat like Octavia Butler's _Kindred_).  I thought it was 
written by Harry Harrison, but my search through _Anatomy of Wonder_ did not 
produce a name.  I'd appreciate any help I could get in finding the title.
P.S. And thanks to Colleen for letting me know my messages are getting 
through.  Rick.
From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 18:34:33 1995
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Cnoll,   Du meintest am / you wrote on 29.03.95
zum Thema / concerning "RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply":

> certainly isn't Romanian, which I get the impression was an integral part of
> the original question.
>
> Was this all nonsequetor?

- He was asking about "romanies" (= Roma), i.e. the main gypsy people/tribe  
in Western Europe, but obviously (he being in England) meaning gypsies in  
general.


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
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Terry Rezekyou wrote on 31.03.95

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

- This is A. C. Clarke's Third Law (in "Technology and the Future", a talk  
to the 1967 annual meeting of the American Institute of Architects,  
published as Chapter 14 of 'Report on Planet Three')

The First Law:
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is  
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is  
impossible, he is very probably wrong."

The Second Law:
"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them  
into the impossible."


--
Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY
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Attebria wrote on 29.03.95  concerning "Re: Gypsies in SF":

> These are all more or less fantasy rather than SF, with Lafferty
> falling somewhere in the unclassifiable, as usual.  ^  ^  ^ ^  ^
  ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^

Neatly put! And thanks for a couple of titles to look for.



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
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Re: the quote.  It was Arthur C. Clarke.  I revised it once to read: "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk."
That's what science fiction writers do, mostly: doubletalk their way around
science that doesn't exist.  Some writers, like Clarke, do it plausibly and
well.  Others, well. . . .
 
GAE
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:43:32 -0500
From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Romanies in SF
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In the more  fantastic realm, Anne McCaffrey wrote at least one of her
Dragons of Pern novels about the gypsies on Pern, although I can't remember
the title.

Also, perhaps, related, McCaffrey also joined forces with Anne Scarborough to
write _Petaybee_, in which I believe the colonists referred to themselves
once or twice as a group of unwilling planetary gypsies. At any rate, I liked
that the title meant "the PowErs ThAt BE."


Debbie Jo Halstead


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:16:18 1995
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From: Debbie Jo Halstead <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
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On Mar 30, 10:39am, Ive Velez wrote:
> Subject: Book Inventory Software
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I know this doesn't have to do with SF, but since you may have the
> same problem that I have I'm going to post this message here.
> 
> Do any of you know of a good book inventory software that runs under
> MS Windows and that is appropriate for home library use. It would
> be nice if it can keep information on publishers, authors and bookstores.
> I have a lot of books at home and I would like to get them cataloged.
> I could create my own system, but if there is an off-the-shelf solution
> it would save me time.
> 
> Please, reply to my e-mail address since not all subscribers to this
> list may be interested in this subject.
> 
> Any replies would be most appreciated.
> 
> 
>        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
>       (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
> +-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
> |                                                                   |
> | Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
> | e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
> |                                                                   |
> |    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
> |     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
> |                                                                   |
> |           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
> \\-----------------------------------------------------------------//
> 
> 
> -- End of excerpt from [log in to unmask] (Ive Velez)


You just missed us ranting and raving about how we lost all our disk copies
of what we do and do not have in the psi phi library.

I'm not sure what the original program for the psi phi library card catalogue
was (Arthur Byrne could tell you -- I'm assuming he's responding to your post
as well), but my personal libraries of books, records, tapes, and CD's are
catalogued on a simple cardfile program from MicroSoft Windows. I can expand
the cards to include as much information as I'd like. You may need something
more "professional," but I figured that I'd offer the suggestion.

Debbie Jo
DJ the DJ
STUCOMM 88.5


From cstu  Fri Mar 31 11:16:32 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
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Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
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From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
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Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



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>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>




From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:02 1995
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From @HWWIBM.HWWILSON.COM:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:41:48 1995
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Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:36:12 EST
Subject:       Re: Gypsies in SF
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> Can anyone cite any instances of SF stories which feature
> romanies and other travellers as characters?
> 
> Andy Sawyer,
> Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
> Sydney Jones Library
> The University of Liverpool
> 051-794-2733/2696
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 

Two authors come quickly to mind:

Anne McCaffrey: 
Dragonsdawn
Renegades of Pern 


Robert Heinlein:
Citizen of the galaxy 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:10:58 1995
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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:09:27 -0500
From: "Eric A. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv


Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	| Eric A. Johnson		  |  Voice AM: (202) 707-3305	| 
	| Senior Exchange Specialist	  |  Voice PM: (202) 707-9498	|
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		"Giving me a new idea is like handing a cretin
		 a loaded gun, but I do thank you anyhow,
		 bang, bang ..."
					Philip K. Dick, 1928-1982

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:35:12 1995
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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:31:36 -0500
From: "Stephanie A. Hall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source of quote?
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Terry Rezek wrote:

> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 

Aurthur C. Clarke.  

The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
& etc

Stephanie

Opinions mine
[log in to unmask]
From cstu  Fri Mar 31 16:26:51 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 31 Mar 1995 12:55:12 EST
From: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEBULAS

          Rodrigo Juri asked  when  the Nebuals will  be awarded, and  what=
=20
          nominees are. The awards will be announced on April 22  at Nebula=
=20
          Awards Banquet (voting by  SFWA closes today)--from March  LOCUS.=
=20
          Novels nominated: MOVING MARS by Greg Bear; PARABLE OF  THE SOWER=
=20
          by Octavia Butler; GUN, WITH OCCASIONAL MUSIC by Jonathan Lethem;=
=20
          TOWING  JEHOVAH  by  James  Morrow; TEMPORARY  AGENCY  by  Rachel=
=20
          Pollack; GREEN  MARS  by  Kim Stanley Robinson; A  NIGHT  IN  THE=
=20
          LONESOME OCTOBER by Roger Zelazny.=20
               Novellas: "Mefisto in  Onyx"  by Harlan Ellison, Omni 10-93;=
=20
          "Haunted  Humans"  by  Nina  Kiriki  Hoffman,  F  and   SF  7-94;=
=20
          "Forgiveness Day"  by Ursula LeGuin, Asimov's 11-94; "Seven Views=
=20
          of Olduvai Gorge" by Mike Resnik, F and SF 10 and 11-94; "Fan" by=
=20
          Geoff Ryman, UNCONQUERED COUNTRIES; Interzone 3  and  4-94; "Cold=
=20
          Iron" by Michael Swanwick, Asimov's, 11-93=20
               Novelettes: "Necronauts", Terry  Bisson, Playboy  7-93;  The=
=20
          Martian Child", David Gerrold, Fand SF 9-94; "The Skeleton Key" ,=
=20
          Nina K. Hoffman, F  and  SF 8-93; "The Singular Habits of Wasps",=
=20
          Geoffrey A. Landis, Analog 4-94;  "The Matter  of Segri", LeGuin,=
=20
          Crank=FF  no.  3,  spring  1994  ;  "Nekropolis",  Maureen  McHug=
h,=20
          Asimov's, 4-94=20
               Short stories: "Inspiration", Ben Bova, F and SF 4-94; "None=
=20
          So   Blind",   Joe   Haldeman,  Asimov's,  11-94;  "Understanding=
=20
          Entropy", Barry Malzberg, SF  Age 7-94; "Virtual Love", McHugh, F=
=20
          and  SF 1-94; "A Defense of  the Social Contracts", Martha Soukp,=
=20
          SF  Age,  9-93;  "I  Know  What  You're Thinking", Kate  Wilhelm,=
=20
          Asimov's 11-94.=20
               All  the  above  from  the  March LOCUS.  BTW, LeGuin's "The=
=20
          Matter of  the Seggri" tied  with Nancy Springer's LARQUE ON  THE=
=20
          WING  for  the Tiptree Award in Feb., also according to LOCUS  (I=
=20
          have  a  borrowed copy;  my preferred tipple  is  SCIENCE FICTION=
=20
          CHRONICLE, but that's at home)=20
               On  a  tangent:  since  feminist  utopias  are  a  topic  of=
=20
          dicussion and  the Tiptree is related, here's the World Wide  Web=
=20
          address  for  the  Tiptree Award homepage  for  anyone interested=
=20
          (again from LOCUS):                                              =
=20
          http:slashslashwww.cs.wisc.eduslashwisconslashtiptree.html   (had=
=20
          to  write slash because my machine thinks the symbol means  "next=
=20
          line")=20
               Chris Callahan=20
          =20
                    "Please  do   not   adjust   your   mind.  Reality   is=
=20
          malfunctioning"                                                  =
=20

From cstu  Fri Mar 31 17:02:19 1995
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From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
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review sf-lit
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 10:59:51 1995
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From: "Gary Freiburger" <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 10:55:15 +0000
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 ARTHUR C. CLARKE  Profiles of the Future; an inquiry into the limits of the 
possible. Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, NY, 1984

 Clarkes First Law, "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that 
something is possible he is almost certainly right.  When he states that 
something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

 Second Law, "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to 
venture a little way past them into the impossible."

 Third Law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from 
magic."

 - Gary
***********************************************************
Gary Freiburger, Deputy Director       PHONE:  410-706-7545
Health Sciences Library                FAX:    410-706-3101
University of Maryland at Baltimore
111 S. Greene St.
Baltimore, MD  21201     INTERNET: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:02:23 1995
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>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]

        I'm quite sure it is Arthur C. Clarke, but I can't recall right now
just were and when he said it.

[log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:03:41 1995
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"Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."
is attributed to Arthur C. Clarke.

:)
--Jim Greco
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:37:53 1995
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From: Sheila D'Ammassa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book Inventory Software
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I don't know about software specifically for book inventory, but my
husband is cataloguing our collection (about 75,000 books and periodicals,
more than half of which are SF\fantasy\horror) using Microsoft Reflex, a
flat file database which has worked extremely well for him and is easy to
find and use.  He uses the collection extensively for research and is
pleased with the new system.  If you want more info, please e-mail me.


Sheila D'Ammassa
Office of Academic Affairs, Rhode Island School of Design
2 College Street, Providence RI  02903-2784
Phone:  401-454-6592   Fax:  401-454-6598    e-mail:  [log in to unmask]

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:50:50 1995
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The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke, not Asimov.

-- Mike Resnick
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 11:53:15 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:50:21 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <v01510100aba131b27785@[204.178.60.33]> from "Terry Rezek" at Mar 31, 95 07:46:30 am
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In the last mail Terry Rezek said:
> 
> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
> I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
> 
> Thanks,
> Terry Rezek
> [log in to unmask]
It was Arthur C Clarke - his Third Law. It can be found along with the other
two in PROFILES OF THE FUTURE.
> 
> 
Andy Sawyer,
Librarian/Administrator: Science Fiction Foundation Collection
Sydney Jones Library
The University of Liverpool
051-794-2733/2696
[log in to unmask]
> 

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:16:07 1995
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Hi Terry...the quote about magic and science is from Arthur C. 
Clarke...however, I'm not sure of the source...I'd also like to use this 
message to find out if what I send is getting through...I never receive copies 
of my own messages, and so am not sure if anything is being posted...and I've 
sent several responses on Feminist Utopias and other matters...could someone 
be so good as to e-mail me and let me know if I am actually on the list?  
thanks.  rick
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:20:05 1995
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask] (David Voda)
Subject: Re: Source of quote
To: [log in to unmask]

You wrote: 

>
>Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct 
phrasing
>of the following:
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
>I think it was Asimov, but I'm just not sure.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry Rezek
>[log in to unmask]
>

It was Arthur C. Clark.
>
>
>



From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 12:40:27 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE: Source of quote?

The quote "Any sufficiently advenced technology is indistinguishable from
magic" 
Is from Arthur C. Clark. And I think it was in "Rendezvous with RAMA"
or "Imperial Earth". In fact, I'm almost sure its "Imperial Earth".
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:34:07 1995
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Subject: RE: Romanies in SF

I believe the Anne McCaffrey book with gypsies was _Renegades of Pern_.
	Brenda Antrim
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 13:49:47 1995
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>
>Hi Terry.  The quote is by Arthur C. Clarke.  The source is OMNI, April 
>1980, p. 87.  Also, the exact word used was "undistinguishable" as far as 
>I found out.  Anyways ... EAJ

How do you people DO that???

Bob
Robert Thompson
Department of Sociology
Minot State University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing right with the world
that two sociologists can't mess up.

From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 22:33:44 1995
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The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: dcochran
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----------------------------------------

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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:30:06 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:30:06 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Nebula Awards
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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   First; Forgive me for any problem with my english, this is not my
native lenguage.
   Second; Could anyone tell me when the nebula awards are given and who
are the ones that have been nominated?  


Thanks very much.
Rodrigo Juri.
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 14:36:49 1995
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:36:02 +0001 (EST)
From: "M.L. Davis" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: sf for children (delete if you already saw this header)
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
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On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Stephanie A. Hall wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:05:24 -0500 (EST)
> > From: Patricia Altner <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: sf for children
> > 
> > Hello to all lovers of science fiction.
> > I am currently working on a brief annotated bibliography of sf for young
> > readers, focusing on ages 9-14. I would be interested in hearing from
> > anyone with candidates for the list.
> 
Don't know if anyone has recommended this yet, but O.T. Nelson's _The 
Girl Who Owned A City_ was one of my all-time favs after I discovered 
it.  As it deals with children under the age of twelve reconsrtucting a 
society without adults, it is particularly appealing to the children of 
that age group, as is a book like _Charmed Life_ (by ?), which is full of 
young magical-types testing their abilities.

Hope it helps

Marie Davis
McMaster U.
Hamilton, Ont. Canada
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 17:16:41 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:14:53 -0700
Subject:       Re: Source of quote?
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> The quote has given rise to some wonderful corollaries composed by fans:
> 
> Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguisable from technology
> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
> Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguisable from hard work
> & etc

You forgot one which, I believe, is also Clarke's own:

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently 
advanced." 

--
[log in to unmask]  | Raphael Carter |  [log in to unmask]
<a href="http://www.indirect.com/user/raphael/">Androgyny RAQ</a>
  For Jain mailing list, send me mail w/subject "info jain-l"
    <plug>THE FORTUNATE FALL, Tor Books Spring 1996</plug>
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 17:33:14 1995
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: identity of novel
To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi...I've ahd a student ask me about a time-travel novel that I know I've 
read, but I cannot scrape away the dust in my mental attic and recall the 
title.  It is about a scientist who travels back to the early US Civil War; 
apparently he wants to help the Confederacy win, and is intent upon supplying 
them with advanced machine guns.  He is pursued from the future (his present) 
into the deep south by a man of color, with the all the obvious plot 
complications (somewhat like Octavia Butler's _Kindred_).  I thought it was 
written by Harry Harrison, but my search through _Anatomy of Wonder_ did not 
produce a name.  I'd appreciate any help I could get in finding the title.
P.S. And thanks to Colleen for letting me know my messages are getting 
through.  Rick.
From @link-m.muc.de:[log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 18:34:33 1995
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Cnoll,   Du meintest am / you wrote on 29.03.95
zum Thema / concerning "RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply":

> certainly isn't Romanian, which I get the impression was an integral part of
> the original question.
>
> Was this all nonsequetor?

- He was asking about "romanies" (= Roma), i.e. the main gypsy people/tribe  
in Western Europe, but obviously (he being in England) meaning gypsies in  
general.


Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
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Terry Rezekyou wrote on 31.03.95

> Can anyone give me the source (author, book) and even the correct phrasing
> of the following:
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

- This is A. C. Clarke's Third Law (in "Technology and the Future", a talk  
to the 1967 annual meeting of the American Institute of Architects,  
published as Chapter 14 of 'Report on Planet Three')

The First Law:
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is  
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is  
impossible, he is very probably wrong."

The Second Law:
"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them  
into the impossible."


--
Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY
_____    __          phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
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Attebria wrote on 29.03.95  concerning "Re: Gypsies in SF":

> These are all more or less fantasy rather than SF, with Lafferty
> falling somewhere in the unclassifiable, as usual.  ^  ^  ^ ^  ^
  ^ ^ ^ ^ ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^  ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^

Neatly put! And thanks for a couple of titles to look for.



Tim Slater       [log in to unmask]     CIS: 1000024,2546
Eglinger Str. 15A, D-82544 Egling-Moosham, GERMANY

phone: +49-8176-1393   fax: -1722
_____    __
  |     |__          Oeffentlich bestellter und allgemein beeidigter
  | RAN  __| LATER   Dolmetscher und Uebersetzer fuer die englische Sprache

## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 22:48:10 1995
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Date: Sat, 01 Apr 1995 03:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: PMDF Mail Server <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Envelope-To: [log in to unmask]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: dcochran
Reason: 
  %MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification '@KELVIN'

----------------------------------------

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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:44:39 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:44:39 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Book Inventory Software (responses)
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Errors-To: [log in to unmask]
Originator: [log in to unmask]
Precedence: bulk
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv



For those of you who asked for the responses that I got on my request,
here is what I have received so far.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. a program that might be adapted to your purpose is Paradox for
windows. It is a reasonably easy to use database program.  Microsoft
access is also supposed to be a good, friendly, windows database -- but I
haven't used that one yet.  I recommend a database program rather than
one specifically designed for books, because it will be more versitile --
you will be able to use it for other things...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. I don't know of any specific book cataloging software that runs under
Windows. However, Works for Windows allows you to build your own
databases.  I've done that for a portion of my music collection, and
intend to do it for my book collection as well...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. Have you checked out the shareware programs in the SIMTEL archives?
There are a couple of Windows book cataloguers available by anonymous ftp
from oak.oakland.edu, in the directory /SimTel/win3/entertn/   The index
file will tell you which ones to download...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. I used to use BOOKBase by INTENSE Software. I found it on a shareware
CD-ROM a year ago. It's quite good for me. I also tried some other software
of this kind but BOOKBase seems to be the best of what I saw.

INTENSE Software
Philadelphia, PA 19137
4218 Richmond Street.

Registration fee is 15 bucks...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
.. "Track-It! Book Collection" helps you track, organize and catalog your
book collection. Its only $15.
Sold by: Insight Software Solutions
         P.O. Box 354
         Bountiful, UT  84011-0354
         Tel. (801) 295-1890 ...
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all!


       MMM             \|/              www              __^__
      (o o)            @ @             (O-O)            /(o o)\
+-.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-+
|                                                                   |
| Ive Edgardo Velez                                                 |
| e-mail: [log in to unmask]                                       |
|                                                                   |
|    "There's no sense being exact about something if you don't     |
|     even know what you're talking about."   John von Neumann      |
|                                                                   |
|           ***Most of the time my opinions are my own.***          |
\\-----------------------------------------------------------------//


From [log in to unmask]  Fri Mar 31 22:56:42 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 04:56:27 BST
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 1995 03:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: PMDF Mail Server <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Undeliverable mail
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
X-Envelope-To: [log in to unmask]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The message could not be delivered to:

Addressee: dcochran
Reason: 
  %MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification '@KELVIN'

----------------------------------------

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 Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:53:01 -0500
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 22:53:01 -0500
From: Colleen Stumbaugh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Reposting Digest 03-30-95 (10 msgs)
Sender: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-to: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Errors-To: [log in to unmask]
Originator: [log in to unmask]
Precedence: bulk
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:01 -0800 (PST)
From: fran skene <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LeGuin

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> I've noticed a couple of remarks about Ursula K. LeGuin's "Earthsea Trilogy,"
> and I wondered if _Tehanu_, "the last book of Earthsea," is different enough
> from the first three books that the whole work will be remembered as a
> trilogy plus a separate novel?

***
I wouldn't recommend Tehanu as a first novel to read, rather would 
suggest reading _The tombs of Atuan_ first.  I think there are equal 
cases for regarding the four books as:  a quartet; a trilogy plus a 
fourth as you suggest; and linked pairs - two with one main protagonist 
and two with another.

I think what distinguishes the fourth novel is the length of time between 
it and the first three.  The author's writing and her personal concerns 
have evolved, and this shows in Tehanu.

In Brave New World, Revisited - written 27 years after Brave New World - 
Aldous Huxley states, as I recall, that he was tempted to rewrite the 
novel but decided to let it be.  Although his writing and his opinions 
about what the future holds for us had evolved, the author felt - 
rightly, I think - that his more youthful writing had an energy he didn't 
want to tamper with.  Or some such (it's been a while since I've read 
BNW,R).  

I have similar thoughts about the differences between the first 
three Earthsea novels and the fourth one.  I'm glad Le Guin wrote the 
first three novels when she did.  Tehanu is more politically correct but 
lacks a little of the magic of the earlier novels.  (Mind you, I've reread 
Tehanu more than once.  Every Le Guin story is worth rereading.)

Cheers,   Fran



Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:58:16 EST
From: Camille <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Rudy Rucker

This is more of a philosophical/marketing question, I guess, but I've
been looking for Rucker's work in our local Borders and Barnes and Noble
superstores and can't find any.  I can't figure out why nobody seems to carry
his books around here, when the shelves always seem full of people both
more obscure and/or less interesting.

Camille


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 13:40:21 1995
Message-Tag: 3508
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:38:14 -0700 (MST)
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Female utopias

Suzy McKee Charnas' triology "Walk to the end of the world,"  "Motherlines," 
and "The Furies" deal with women escaping the rule of men and their attempts
to establish a female only society.  The last two really deal with the 
problems of a single gender society.  Definately not a place I'd care to live.

>From [log in to unmask] Mar 31 11:07:10 1995
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF (fwd)

Dear Colleen Stumbaugh:
	Sorry to add to your frustrations with the listserver; I've 
appended below a response to the Children's Lit query which I sent on 
Monday and haven't seen posted (or included in your summary reposting).  
Of course, it's possible that you did so and I just missed it.  But, if 
not, here it is again, if you think it's worth distributing at this later 
date.

	I'm delighted that SF-LIT is up and running and I hope it will be 
less troublesome for you in the future.

Best wishes,

Philip Smith

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 14:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip E Smith <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: CHILDREN'S SF

Anyone interested in Children's SF should look at Neil Barron's ANATOMY 
OF WONDER, 4th edition (R.R. Bowker, 1995).  Chapter 5, "Young Adult 
Science Fiction" by Franics J. Molson and Susan G. Miles, contains an 
excellent bibliographic introduction as well as a list (with plot 
summaries) of 180 titles.  The same two authors wrote an essay on "Modern 
Fantasy for Young Adults" which is a chapter in Barron's FANTASY 
LITERATURE: A READER'S GUIDE (Garland, 1990)--they include Le Guin's 
Earthsea series in the Fantasy guide, but Norton's STAR MAN'S SON: 2250 
AD (Harcourt, 1952) is listed in ANATOMY OF WONDER.

Philip Smith
English Department
University of Pittsburgh



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 14:34:05 1995
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To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:08:09 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF
Lines: 5

Alexander Mirer in his book THE HOUSE OF WANDERERS described a race
alike gypsies.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 15:02:02 1995
Message-Tag: 3513
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To: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Zoryany Shlyah SF Club
From: Boris Sidyuk <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 22:38:40 +0200
X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36]
Subject: Ecology in SF
Lines: 4

Oh, yeah. Almost every work of James H. Schmitz is ecological.

Regards, Boris
[log in to unmask]


----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:08:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:08:35 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in SF

For a series that starts out with the main characters being more than a bit
like gypsies, you could read the

_Bio Of A Space Tyrant_ sries by Piers Anthony
The titles are;
1 -  Refugee
2 - Mercenary
3 - Politician
4 - Executive
5 - Statesman

The main character starts out mainly as a societal reject, and must scam,
pickpocket, and do other stereotypically 'gypsyish' things to make a living -
or just plain stay alive. Of course, as the 'Quintillogy' continues, he
becomes less and less like that. How he turns out, I don't know - I've only
read the first three so far.

Gerry



----------------------------- message follows ------------------------------
>From [log in to unmask]  Thu Mar 30 19:23:51 1995
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 id <[log in to unmask]>; Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:50 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:23:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Gypsies in SF -Reply
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I loved a Canticle!  It was good literature, we read it in college for a 
Western Civ course.  Good dark ages after a disaster supposition.

-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-_.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-

On Wed, 29 Mar 1995, Christina Noll wrote:

> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> >One that comes to mind is Jack Chalker's "Well of Souls" books, where 
> >protagonist Nathan Brazil is supposedly the famous 'Wandering Jew'. 
> >However, since this later turns out to be a disguise of sorts for him,  I'm not
> >sure if it qualifies.
> 
> If it does, we should include "A Canticle for Leibwitz" by Miller ( a sci-fi so
> literate that book stores often classify it as literature instead of sci-fi, like 1984
> and Clockwork Orange.  No offense to Piers Anthony and that ilk.)
> 
> Miller's story covers covers several different historical periods as it progresses,
> unified by, among other things, a wandering man that a young monk correctly
> takes to be the "St. Leibowitz" to whom his abbey is dedicated.  The wanderer
> is the  "Wandering Jew" character.  But he certainly isn't Romanian, which I
> get the impression was an integral part of the original question. 
> 
> Was this all nonsequetor?
>  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 

>> --------------------------begin enclosed message----------------------------
>>
>> [Subject: Biology in SF]
>>
>> >As a biologist, I am developing an undergraduate course on "Biology in
>>Science
>> >Fiction," and I would be interested in knowing about any good science
>>fiction
>> >coming out that shows interesting speculation in biology, particularly
>>genetics
>> >or ecology.  --Joan Slonczewski
>> >
>>
>> To the excellent suggestions already offered, I can add one critical work
>> which might help provide a framework for discussion (and which also contains
>> numerous additional references):
>>
>>      Parker, Helen N. _Biological Themes in Modern Science Fiction_.
>>           Studies in Speculative Fiction, no. 6. Ann Arbor: UMI
>>           Research Press, 1984. 109 pp.  [includes a 10-page bibliography]
>>
>> The chapter headings are as follows:
>>
>>      1. The Biological Perspective in Modern Science Fiction
>>      2. Major Themes of Biological Fiction
>>      3. Evolutionary Science Fiction
>>  ===>4. Genetic Science Fiction [14 pages]
>>      5. Manipulative Biology in Science Fiction
>>      6. The Biological Parable
>>      7. Biological Fiction: A Perspective on the Development of Science
>>           Fiction
>>
>> I think I got my copy from a sale catalog a few years ago.  I don't know
>> whether it's still in print.  I found it more valuable for the overview and
>> references than for the depth of insight, but quite interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Greg Foster
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> Greg Foster                        |  "What are stars but points in the body
>> Graduate Instructor, English       |  of God where we insert the healing
>> [log in to unmask]        |  needles of our terror and longing?"
>> http://www.missouri.edu/~c527790/  |     --Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
>>
>>





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