Comparing ISO 639 JAC N5 to ISO 639-2, it is clear that just as with Ndebele, which the JAC sorted out in Washington, into: ------------------------------------------------------------ 639-2 639-1 Language name ------------------------------------------------------------ nde nd * Ndebele, North (Sindebele, Tebele) nbl nr Ndebele, South (Nrebele) (formerly single Ndebele code in ISO 639-1, and two in ISO 639-2) ------------------------------------------------------------ there is a similar situation (in reverse) for the two Mari languages, as for the two Ndebele languages: there are different entities in the (deferred) ISO 639-1 proposals and ISO 639-2: ------------------------------------------------------------ 639-2 639-1 Language name ------------------------------------------------------------ chm -- Mari --- --- --- (mj) Mari, Meadow --- --- --- (mm) Mari, Mountain ------------------------------------------------------------ The two Mari languages used in Mari El are normally regarded as distinct languages, just as are the various Sami languages, and Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian, and they are not as mutually intelligible as Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian, or even as Hindi and Urdu. There are only two Mari languages. Much to my surprise, I cannot find any mention of either Mari language listed in the Ethnologue, unless I just missed it, and have no statistics. Both are listed separately, and with differing orthographies, in the "ALA-LC romanization tables : transliteration schemes for non-roman scripts : tables" / compiled and edited by Randall K. Barry. Washington, D.C. : LC CDS [Library of Congress, Cataloging Distribution Service], 1997. ISBN 0-8444-0940-5 (p. 126-127). So that we can solve these, as we did with Ndebele, could ISO 639 JAC members try their library or linguistic contacts in libraries, institutions, Mari El, elsewhere in the Russian Federation, etc. who may cover - Uralic languages; - Finno-Ugric languages; - Finno-Permic languages; or - Finno-Volgaic languages (increasing in specificity in that direction) to ascertain whether Hill Mari or Meadow Mari is more widely used, then one Mari language can receive a separate existing ISO 639-2 code, and the ISO 639 JAC can decide whether to allocate a separate ISO 639-2 code to the other Mari language. I shall try my best: I look forward to any information from any of the rest of you Best regards John Clews -- John Clews, SESAME Computer Projects, 8 Avenue Rd, Harrogate, HG2 7PG tel: +44 1423 888 432; fax: + 44 1423 889061; Email: [log in to unmask] Committee Chair of ISO/TC46/SC2: Conversion of Written Languages; Committee Member of ISO/IEC/JTC1/SC22/WG20: Internationalization; Committee Member of CEN/TC304: Information and Communications Technologies: European Localization Requirements Committee Member of TS/1: Terminology (UK national member body of ISO/TC37: Terminology) Committee Member of the Foundation for Endangered Languages; Committee Member of ISO/IEC/JTC1/SC2: Coded Character Sets