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Jennifer,
     In my previous reply to John, I gave the basic distinction between
geographic name and subject headings.  Jurisdictions at any level,
except for extinct cities that ceased to exist before 1500, are
established as name headings.  In addition, there are a couple of
categories of nonjurisdictional places that are established as name
headings:  1) Any place designated as a "ppl" (populated place) in the
gazetteers or online geographic name services of the U.S. Board on
Geographic Names (BGN): GNIS for U.S. domestic names, including
territories and Antarctica, and GEOnet for foreign names.
Unincorporated places in the U.S. that either have a post office, or are
listed in the Rand McNally Commercial Atlas and Marketing Guide, are
established as name headings.  Such places will generally be found in
GNIS with the designation "ppl."   2)  City sections, whether or not
they are jurisdictional, are now established as name headings.  This was
a change made to the "Division of the World" in 1996.   Therefore, the
localities that you cite in New York are appropriately established as
name headings through NACO.  Such headings are authorized for use as
subject headings.
    By the way, a workshop on proposing geographic subject headings for
LCSH through SACO will be held at the ALA Midwinter Meeting in
Philadelphia, Pa. on Jan. 24th.  Please consult the SACO homepage for
details on registering.


Lynn M. El-Hoshy
Senior Cataloging Policy Specialist
Cataloging Policy and Support Office
Library of Congress
101 Independence Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4305
Telephone:  202-707-5862
Fax: 202-707-6629
Email:  [log in to unmask]

>>> [log in to unmask] 11/26/02 04:47PM >>>
Lynn,

Here in New York, we have three government jurisdictions: counties,
towns (subdivisions of counties), and incorporated villages (usually
smaller pieces of towns).  For various reasons groups of people who live
near each other don't always choose to form a village, but they may have
a name for the place they live.  They are single place names,
representing single geographic areas. They often have post offices, but
usually nothing else.  There really is no governmental jurisdiction
involved.  No government body that represents that named area.  It is
literally, just a named area.  They are unincorporated parts of larger
incorporated towns (which clearly are established as names.)

How should we establish these places?  Through NACO or SACO?  We'll be
using them as subjects. Because there are no governments that could act
as authors etc., we now think they should be established through SACO.
But  places like this that are currently established are generally in
NAF as name headings.  (Examples: Delmar (N.Y.), Hartsdale (N.Y.),
Loudonville (N.Y.)




>>> [log in to unmask] 11/19/02 02:34PM >>>
John,
    Jurisdictional status is the primary difference between geographic
name and subject headings.  Jurisdictions at any level are established
as name headings.  Geographic features, regions, and collective names
for groups of jurisdictions are established as subject headings.
Lynn

Lynn M. El-Hoshy
Senior Cataloging Policy Specialist
Cataloging Policy and Support Office
Library of Congress
101 Independence Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4305
Telephone:  202-707-5862
Fax: 202-707-6629
Email:  [log in to unmask]

Ian S. Duckor
New York State Library
Cultural Education Center 6th FL
Albany, NY 12230
518-474-8610


>>> [log in to unmask] 11/19/02 11:47AM >>>
Thanks.  I'll submit it.  Just curious, what makes this SACO rather
than NACO?
Where does it fit in the division of the world?


On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Lynn M El Hoshy wrote:

> John,
>      I hope that you were planning to make a SACO proposal.  A
heading
> naming a group of cities collectively would be a geographic subject
> heading.  An example is Hamptons (N.Y.) (sh85058600).  It would need
> geographic qualifiers for both states in which the cities are
located.
>
> Lynn M. El-Hoshy
> Senior Cataloging Policy Specialist
> Cataloging Policy and Support Office
> Library of Congress
> 101 Independence Avenue, SE
> Washington, DC 20540-4305
> Telephone:  202-707-5862
> Fax: 202-707-6629
> Email:  [log in to unmask]