I think that the linguistic view (2) given by Havard is the valid one.  However, I think that the term "Catalan" is used in two senses--for the overall language that includes the three variants and for one of the variants.  Milicent Wewerka

>>> Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 03/13/03 03:25PM >>>
I am not sure that I agree entirely; but this is an important issue on the
level of principle.

I believe there are at least two ways to describe the situation from a
linguistic point of view: (1) Valiencian (and Balearic) are "dialectal
variants" of Catalan; or (2) Valencian, Balearic, and Catalan are all three
separate variants of more or less the same language. Catalan has a slightly
different "status" with a somewhat higher level of standardized written
form. What is certain, is that "Valencian" is not a "different name" for the
same language; it is either a "sub-variant" of the language, or a "separate
closely related language". I am uncertain as to the wisdom and the
consequence of assigning both names to the same entity.

If we had a category like "also included", I would probably have no
objection to using that. But for now we only have the category of
"equivalent names". And that isn't entirely satisfactory.

What do others think?


-----Original Message-----
From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Rebecca S. Guenther
Sent: 13. mars 2003 15:58
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: A question about a language (fwd)

I received a request from this person for a language code for
Valencian (see below). He was pleased with my proposal to include the
language name with Catalan. I just wanted to let the JAC know that I plan
to do this and see if there are any objections.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:56:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Rebecca S. Guenther <[log in to unmask]>
To: Tomas Miralles <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A question about a language

We have considered Valencian a variant of Catalan and have included it in
that code. Sometimes when we discover this sort of omission we add that
language name to the list with the code assigned. Since this is a variant
and uses the code of Catalan, we could change to:

Catalan; Valencian      cat
then in the "V" section we would add:
Valencian; Catalan      cat

There is the alternative to fill out the form for a new language code, but
I think in this case the committee would still consider it a variant and
it is our policy to include it as I detailed above. The form is at: 

^^  Rebecca S. Guenther                                   ^^
^^  Chair, ISO 639-2 Maintenance Agency                   ^^
^^  Senior Networking and Standards Specialist            ^^
^^  Library of Congress                                   ^^
^^  Washington, DC 20540-4402                             ^^
^^  (202) 707-5092 (voice)    (202) 707-0115 (FAX)        ^^
^^  [log in to unmask]                                          ^^
^^                                                        ^^

On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Tomas Miralles wrote:
> Dear friends,
>   I'm writing you because I have entered in your web about "codes for the
> representation of names of languages and I would like to know why my
> lenguage (valencian; a variant of catalan but independent of this,
> recognized in Spain by the Statuts) doesn't appear at list.
>   Valencian have own history and great writers like Joanot Martorell.
> I would like that you gave me a code for valencian and if not, the reasons
> by witch do not appear valencian at list. I do not understand why appear a
> great number of lenguages spoken all arround the world and don't my
> lenguage.
>   Please, excuse me for my poor english, I'm waiting for your reply,
> thanks you very much for your time.
> Bye
> _________________________________________________________________
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