I note that the Lojban Web site (in the FAQs) refers to Lojban as a sub-category of Loglan. The language in both Loglan and Lojban varieties seems to be in a state of frequent revision, such that older documents are different than modern documents. Personally, I don't see the advantage of including this language in ISO639, except for the status that the inventors will then claim. As Havard mentioned, perhaps we need evidence of documents in other institutions. After all, I could invent a language and write 50 different poems on separate sheets of paper and consider that my "language" should be included because it meets the ISO requirement for 50 documents. I think the requirement for 50 documents is only a necessary, but not a sufficient element in the addition of language codes. Milicent Wewerka, Library of Congress >>> Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 06/05/03 06:56AM >>> Below please find a proposal for a new ISO 639 alpha-3 identifier. Lojban is an artificial language. You can find information about Lojban in the references provided by the submitter. Lojban is not included in Ethnologue, since they don't include artificial languages. However, ISO 639 does have some artificial languages, currently: Afrihili : afh Esperanto : eo / epo Ido : io / ido Interlingua : ia / ina Interlingue : ie / ile Volapük : vo / vol Artificial (Other) : art There are no explicit rules about the inclusion of artificial languages in ISO 639. Going by the simple "50 document rule" it is probable that Lojban meets the requirement (although it might be argued that 50 documents should be found in other locations than the archives of the "Lojban organization" itself). I should like to hear arguments BOTH relating to the general question of encoding artificial languages, AND the merit of including Lojban in the alpha-3 table. Best regards, Håvard Hjulstad ------------------------- Håvard Hjulstad mailto:[log in to unmask] Chairman ISO/TC37 (Terminology and other language resources) Convener of ISO/TC37/SC2/WG1 (Language coding) Acting chairman of ISO 639 RA-JAC Solfallsveien 31 NO-1430 Ås, Norway tel: +47 64963684 fax: +47 64944233 mob: +47 90145563 http://www.hjulstad.com/havard/ ------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:13:22 -0400 From: WWW generic account <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Subject: New ISO 639-2 code This data was submitted on: Friday, May 30, 2003 at 11:13:22 lang_in_eng = Lojban lang_in_fre = lojban ref_where_found_1 = http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_french.txt lang_in_vern = la lojban. [note required final dot, NOT a period] ref_where_found_2 = http://ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/intro.html trans_lit = None evidence = The Logical Language Group, a non-profit Virginia (U.S.) corporation, holds a substantial archive in paper and electronic form of documents in Lojban. There are at least 100 Lojban documents in this archive, including original prose and poetry, translations, personal letters, and other works. Many of these works are also available online. See http://www.lojban.org for contact information. addinfo = Lojban is a constructed language with several purposes, originally designed to test the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, but now extended to international communication, human-computer communication, and others. There are about 30-40 fluent speakers in all parts of the world, and perhaps 300 who have some level of interest in the language. Lojban has no official status anywhere. request_addition = ISO 639-2 only 2_code_suggestion = 3_code_suggestion = jbo submit_name = John Cowan submit_email = [log in to unmask] submit_status = Non-fluent speaker of language, Vice President of Logical Language Group. Note: We are requesting the code "jbo" because it seems unlikely to be assigned to any other language, is not used by the Ethnologue, and is a combining form (bound morpheme) meaning "Lojban(ic)", in such words as jbopli, Lojban user, and jbota'a, to talk in Lojban.