I'd like to support an explicit element for the title to be used for sorting (when present), as in the example Bruce provided (with minor adjustments to end tags) based on Roy's suggestion. <titleInfo> <title>A shield in space?</title> <titleSub>technology, politics, and the strategic defense initiative: how the Reagan Administration set out to make nuclear weapons "impotent and obsolete" and succumbed to the fallacy of the last move</titleSub> <titleSort>shield in space?</titleSort> <titleAbbrev>A shield in space?</titleAbbrev> </titleInfo> To me this is simple and unambiguous. Rebecca says: > Roy's suggestion of including a > sort title is a possibility, although, as already expressed, requires > redundant keying or extra programming. True, but, in practice, I see no likelihood that it would be achieved by redundant keying other than in exceptional cases. In most cases, it would be achieved by simple programming (extra, maybe, but worthwhile when considering the overall economy -- including building systems that use the records to help users find the content described and the productivity of those users). If done explicitly at data entry, the worst case would be copy-and-paste and automated population of the titleSort element for the bulk of cases should be feasible, especially if the language of the title is known. Transformation from MARC can take advantage of the existing explicit coding. I used the phrase "overall economy" deliberately. The newly published draft STATEMENT OF INTERNATIONAL CATALOGUING PRINCIPLES from IFLA includes the following: Economy. When alternative ways exist to achieve a goal, preference should be given to the way that best furthers overall economy (i.e., the least cost or the simplest approach). It is not clear as stated, that "overall" should include the use of the records and not just their creation, but I would personally argue that if that is not the intent it should be. Caroline Arms [log in to unmask] Office of Strategic Initiatives Library of Congress Views are my own.