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We should firmly reject simplified _usages_ in relation to ISO 639-1 and
ISO 639-2. This is already defined in the industry standard ASD-STE100,
and needs no additional specification within ISO/TC37.

There are many "simplified Englishes", including SEASPEAK, etc. All are
distinguished by particular usages, in specific limited groups. Generally
they are all specific usages, and all individuals and all small groups of
people have specific usages - and ALL are subsets of a standard language
already in ISO 639-1, with a limited lexis, limited syntax, and limited
semantics etc. If we started on these in ISO/TC37, we'd never stop.

ASD-STE100 says:

Technical documentation in the civil aviation industry is generally
provided to customers in the English language. This can be a source of
difficulty for users whose mother tongue is not English.

ASD Simplified Technical English (ASD-STE100) consists of a limited
vocabulary and a set of rules intended to increase the readability of
technical texts. It is called a "controlled language", because these rules
impose on writers:

 -simple syntax
 -a limited number of words
 -a limited number of clearly defined meanings for these words: in
general, each word has only one meaning
 -a limited number of parts of speech for the words: in general, each word
has only one part of speech

The objective is to obtain a brief, and above all, unambiguous text.

ASD-STE100 was developed to help the users of English-language
documentation to understand what they read. However, SE is not only for
those who do not have English as their native language, but also for those
who do.


John Clews continues:

NB: The requester doesn't need to have HTML markup or language codes in
library systems - there are other mechanisms if it is required to document
this.

Christian Galinski wrote:

> Although this out of the scope of present ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2
scopes,

Yes

> we sooner or later have to deal with all kinds of language variation,
> such as:
> - dialects
> - register
> - other specialities (incl. simplified xyz language)
> - sign languages (corresponding to natural languages)
> - etc.

If we do those, they are within the scope of ISO 639-4 onwards.

It's also necessary to determine the user needs for standards for these
other kinds of language variation.

To my mind, this hasn't been done sufficiently.

Nor should we get involved in never-ending work. This is a job for
academics specialising in this, not for standardisers.

John Clews


Christian also wrote:


> I keep insisting that we need a strategy with consistent rules for all
of these variations - and more to crop up in the development from
eContent to mContent, where the big issue becomes semantic
interoperability.

How much does that affect us in the ISO 639 JAC? Very little in terms of
language coding. Most semantic web interoperability activities don't
involve language variation.

Semantic web interoperability could involve ISO/TC37 but more in
ISO/TC37/SC4, I would think.

> I am confident that in the course of the discussions concerning further
parts of ISO 639 we will have this discussion and find practical
solutions to the respective issues. Did we not foresee a meeting of the
JAC by the end of this year to discuss such strategic matters?

Is it possible to have an ISO JAC meeting in Europe this time?

John Clews



---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code
From:    "Infopoint" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:    Sun, August 1, 2004 10:29 pm
To:      [log in to unmask]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear colleagues,

Although this out of the scope of present ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2
scopes, we sooner or later have to deal with all kinds of language
variation, such as:
- dialects
- register
- other specialities (incl. simplified xyz language)
- sign languages (corresponding to natural languages)
- etc.

I keep insisting that we need a strategy with consistent rules for all of
these variations - and more to crop up in the development from
eContent to mContent, where the big issue becomes semantic
interoperability. I am confident that in the course of the discussions
concerning further parts of ISO 639 we will have this discussion and find
practical solutions to the respective issues. Did we not foresee a meeting
of the JAC by the end of this year to discuss such strategic matters?

Best regards
Christian


-----Original Message-----
From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Rebecca S. Guenther
Sent: Montag, 26. Juli 2004 22:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code


This is certainly out of scope for the ISO 639 list. It seems to
possibly be out of scope for RFC 3066 tagging, or is that the way to
handle it?

Rebecca

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, WWW generic account wrote:

> This data was submitted on: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 02:47:47
>
> lang_in_eng = Simplified technical english
> lang_in_fre = L' anglais technique simplifié ref_where_found_1 >
lang_in_vern =  ref_where_found_2 =
> trans_lit =

> evidence = The ASD S2000M and S1000D community is using Simplified
Technical English as basic language definition for the documentation
crated for military and civil products.

> As neither the ISO language code “EN” nor “UK” is exactly identifying
what is used for our documentation you are kindly requested to
> register a new language code for Simplified English - "SEN" for 3  digit
and "SX" for 2 digit. Under 'documentation' as mentioned above  is meant
technical documentation like work description, sequential  task
descriptions, illustrated parts catalogues and others. These  documents
are produced for major European military projects like the  striker or
helicopter projects ‘Rafal, Tornado, NH90 and Tiger. Up to  date are
more than 100 000 pages/data modules are produced in
> Simplified technical English.
>
>
>
> addinfo = ASD is the AeroSpace and Defence Industries Association of
Europe and represents 32 associations in 20 countries across Europe.
One aim of ADS is to support its members by publishing standards for
their specific business use.

> Further details for the AECMA publications for Simplified English as
well as for the S2000M can be obtained from the AECMA Web Page
> <http://www.aecma.org/Publications.htm>.  As AECMA has recently  changed
to ASD the web address will change to
> <http://www.asd-europe.org> soon.

> request_addition = ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2
> 2_code_suggestion = SX
> 3_code_suggestion = STX
> submit_name = Rainer Kynast
> submit_email = [log in to unmask]
> submit_status = I am the industry co-chair of the ASD-Maintenance and
Coordination Group (MCG). The MCG is responsible for the creation of
the AECMA Specification 2000M (S2000M) and is still responsible for  the
maintenance of this spec. The S2000M defines the Materiel
> Management processes and procedures and its related electronically  data
exchange regulation for any military product.