We should firmly reject simplified _usages_ in relation to ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2. This is already defined in the industry standard ASD-STE100, and needs no additional specification within ISO/TC37. There are many "simplified Englishes", including SEASPEAK, etc. All are distinguished by particular usages, in specific limited groups. Generally they are all specific usages, and all individuals and all small groups of people have specific usages - and ALL are subsets of a standard language already in ISO 639-1, with a limited lexis, limited syntax, and limited semantics etc. If we started on these in ISO/TC37, we'd never stop. ASD-STE100 says: Technical documentation in the civil aviation industry is generally provided to customers in the English language. This can be a source of difficulty for users whose mother tongue is not English. ASD Simplified Technical English (ASD-STE100) consists of a limited vocabulary and a set of rules intended to increase the readability of technical texts. It is called a "controlled language", because these rules impose on writers: -simple syntax -a limited number of words -a limited number of clearly defined meanings for these words: in general, each word has only one meaning -a limited number of parts of speech for the words: in general, each word has only one part of speech The objective is to obtain a brief, and above all, unambiguous text. ASD-STE100 was developed to help the users of English-language documentation to understand what they read. However, SE is not only for those who do not have English as their native language, but also for those who do. John Clews continues: NB: The requester doesn't need to have HTML markup or language codes in library systems - there are other mechanisms if it is required to document this. Christian Galinski wrote: > Although this out of the scope of present ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 scopes, Yes > we sooner or later have to deal with all kinds of language variation, > such as: > - dialects > - register > - other specialities (incl. simplified xyz language) > - sign languages (corresponding to natural languages) > - etc. If we do those, they are within the scope of ISO 639-4 onwards. It's also necessary to determine the user needs for standards for these other kinds of language variation. To my mind, this hasn't been done sufficiently. Nor should we get involved in never-ending work. This is a job for academics specialising in this, not for standardisers. John Clews Christian also wrote: > I keep insisting that we need a strategy with consistent rules for all of these variations - and more to crop up in the development from eContent to mContent, where the big issue becomes semantic interoperability. How much does that affect us in the ISO 639 JAC? Very little in terms of language coding. Most semantic web interoperability activities don't involve language variation. Semantic web interoperability could involve ISO/TC37 but more in ISO/TC37/SC4, I would think. > I am confident that in the course of the discussions concerning further parts of ISO 639 we will have this discussion and find practical solutions to the respective issues. Did we not foresee a meeting of the JAC by the end of this year to discuss such strategic matters? Is it possible to have an ISO JAC meeting in Europe this time? John Clews ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code From: "Infopoint" <[log in to unmask]> Date: Sun, August 1, 2004 10:29 pm To: [log in to unmask] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear colleagues, Although this out of the scope of present ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 scopes, we sooner or later have to deal with all kinds of language variation, such as: - dialects - register - other specialities (incl. simplified xyz language) - sign languages (corresponding to natural languages) - etc. I keep insisting that we need a strategy with consistent rules for all of these variations - and more to crop up in the development from eContent to mContent, where the big issue becomes semantic interoperability. I am confident that in the course of the discussions concerning further parts of ISO 639 we will have this discussion and find practical solutions to the respective issues. Did we not foresee a meeting of the JAC by the end of this year to discuss such strategic matters? Best regards Christian -----Original Message----- From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther Sent: Montag, 26. Juli 2004 22:33 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code This is certainly out of scope for the ISO 639 list. It seems to possibly be out of scope for RFC 3066 tagging, or is that the way to handle it? Rebecca On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, WWW generic account wrote: > This data was submitted on: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 02:47:47 > > lang_in_eng = Simplified technical english > lang_in_fre = L' anglais technique simplifié ref_where_found_1 > lang_in_vern = ref_where_found_2 = > trans_lit = > evidence = The ASD S2000M and S1000D community is using Simplified Technical English as basic language definition for the documentation crated for military and civil products. > As neither the ISO language code “EN” nor “UK” is exactly identifying what is used for our documentation you are kindly requested to > register a new language code for Simplified English - "SEN" for 3 digit and "SX" for 2 digit. Under 'documentation' as mentioned above is meant technical documentation like work description, sequential task descriptions, illustrated parts catalogues and others. These documents are produced for major European military projects like the striker or helicopter projects ‘Rafal, Tornado, NH90 and Tiger. Up to date are more than 100 000 pages/data modules are produced in > Simplified technical English. > > > > addinfo = ASD is the AeroSpace and Defence Industries Association of Europe and represents 32 associations in 20 countries across Europe. One aim of ADS is to support its members by publishing standards for their specific business use. > Further details for the AECMA publications for Simplified English as well as for the S2000M can be obtained from the AECMA Web Page > <http://www.aecma.org/Publications.htm>. As AECMA has recently changed to ASD the web address will change to > <http://www.asd-europe.org> soon. > request_addition = ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 > 2_code_suggestion = SX > 3_code_suggestion = STX > submit_name = Rainer Kynast > submit_email = [log in to unmask] > submit_status = I am the industry co-chair of the ASD-Maintenance and Coordination Group (MCG). The MCG is responsible for the creation of the AECMA Specification 2000M (S2000M) and is still responsible for the maintenance of this spec. The S2000M defines the Materiel > Management processes and procedures and its related electronically data exchange regulation for any military product.