Whether or not Ulster Scots was or was not on the list of the languages
that the British Library felt was needed for harmonization with MARC 21 is
only incidental to whether it is needed in ISO 639-2 or ISO 639-3.

Certainly there was also a UKMARC code for it in the past.

But een then, the crucial question is whether it is required now - and it
should certainly be in ISO 639-3 at least.

Certainly it also meets the criteria of ISO 639-2 as well, in terms of
documents (web and/or printed).

Re Peter's queries: it's as valid as Scots, and I also checked out whether
the code for Scots was also assmed to include Ulster Scots as well - it
appears not: I checked David Crystal among my sources today.

John Clews

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: Ulster Scots in ISO 639
From:    "Rebecca S. Guenther" <[log in to unmask]>
Date:    Tue, June 28, 2005 7:07 pm
To:      [log in to unmask]

Further to my message earlier today about the UKMARC language codes,
Ulster Scots was NOT on the list of the languages that the British Library
felt was needed for harmonization with MARC 21. I have contacted our
representative there to ask about Ulster Scots and will let you all know
when I hear back.


On Tue, 28 Jun 2005, John Clews wrote:

> In reply to Peter's crucial questions:
> >> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of John
> >> Clews
> >
> >
> >> Indeed I know all this. But the situation is rather like the Bosanski
language at the beginning, and it has official status, and it will
continue to have oficial status.
> >
> > I knew that Ullans had been given status as a recognized minority
language under the terms of the relevant EU policy (I forget the
details at the moment). But is it contrasted with Lallans either
linguistictly or in terms of official status?
> Both Ullans and Lallans have official status in Northern Ireland and
Scotland respectively, but I have seen no indication that they are
> In fact Ulster Scots (Ullans) has more official status, I believe,
following the Northern Ireland Agreement.
> >> could be equally applied to Scots (Lowland Scots, or Lallans) which
> > does
> >> have a code in ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2.
> >
> > Well, this is the question: does "sco" denote just Lallans, or both
Lallans and Ullans? For purposes of development of 639-3, I have thus
far assumed "sco" encompasses both -- that this is a dialect
> > distinction, not a language distinction. (That's the current analysis
in Ethnologue and Linguasphere.)
> The code "sco" has always been interpreted just to mean Scots in Scotland.
> Ukster Scots has definitely not been included in that.
> >> NB - JAC: Please give consideration to this for an ISO 639-2 tag.
> >>
> >> NB - JAC: Please also give consideration to this for an ISO 639-3 tag.
> >
> > I think I would need further information demonstrating a need for
contrast between Ullans and other Scots varieties.
> Try googling, also the ULLANS-L list archives, and I assume there is
probably an equivalent list or lists for Lallans.
> There are certainly numerous sites for each.
> John
> >
> >
> > Peter Constable
> >