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One would imagine that if you need such things as SMPTE timecode support or mega I/O support, the PCI support by non-standard interconnect to the outside hardware might have some advantages as well. If a secondary external PSU is not used for the external hardware, that would also be a consideration. I can imagine a case (in both directions for all the interface types) could be made for latency issues under heavy use, but again I basically agree with the previous assessment as well. In any case, both approaches work well and don't have the design difficulties that a completely computer-internal solution has. As have been noted on list, there are some excellent internal cards out there, products of very fine design. However, for all of that, you still end up with massive connector dongles and other shortcomings that have to go along with the physical card size/format as well as cost. *There just ain't no free lunch...* -----Original Message----- From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard L. Hess Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] USB/Firewire v PCI card was : [ARSCLIST] Reducing soundcard/circuit noise At 10:04 AM 9/23/2005, andy kolovos wrote: >Folks, > >A friend visited me last week and, being the total losers that we are, >the topic of our conversation eventually ranged to A/D conversion and >digital file input to a PC. We were talking around the benefits of >using a quality outboard A/D unit that feeds a digital audio signal >into a quality PCI card versus using an quality outboard A/D that feeds >the digtial signal in via USB or FireWire. > >Thing is, no one I've asked has been able to give me a clear >explanation of the benefits and drawbacks either way. > >I can imagine at least one--outboard DAC-to-PCI can input an AES >signal--and can guess at a couple others, but I'm curious to get >people's opinions, especially since most people in the field and the >best practices out there always instruct in the use of a DAC-to-PCI >setup. Specifically, is the DAC-to-PCI approach just a hold over from >a time when that was the only way to go? What are the benefits over >quality USB/FireWire input devices? > >andy Hi, Andy, I think your analysis is correct. Let's briefly follow what RME in Germany has done. I use that as an example because I have the first product: http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/multifa.htm The RME Multiface has 8 analog I/O and an ADAT I/O (8 more channels at up to 48 ks/s, 4 at 96 ks/s) plus SPDIF I/O and an analog monitor out for 18 channels in and 20 channels out or 38 channels. It uses a dedicated PCI card that connects to the outboard unit via a FireWire cable, but is not using FireWire protocol. I have two of these (with two PCI cards installed) You can have up to three for 24 tracks. There is also a PCMCIA card interface available, turning a laptop into an 8-channel recorder. THis product is about 3-4 years old. http://www.rme-audio.com/english/firewire/ff800.htm This is a year-old (more or less) product that has a total of 56 channels and connects to the host PC via a FireWire 800 interface. It has 10 analog inputs (including four with mic pres) and 10 analog outputs. It also has two ADAT inputs/outputs and an SPDIF I/O. You can probably use three of them with FW800 connections (it can also connect to FW 400 with loss of throughput) although they suggest disabling the ADAT ports when you do that. The manual is available on the above page and page 90 of the manual describes bus loading. Oh, both do MIDI as well. So, with RME (who I consider to be an excellent but not esoteric supplier of PC interfaces--Steinberg also rebadges the Multiface--I have one of each flavour) we can see a progression from a dedicated PCI card to a FW 800 interface. As both sound cards and PCs stabilize, I think using standard interfaces makes sense. The dedicated PCI cards are more expensive than a standard PCI card, by the way. Cheers, Richard Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask] Vignettes Media web: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/ Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX Detailed contact information: http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm