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My understanding is that the UN M.49 numeric IDs are "stable", though I
do not know whether this extends to never changing the members within a
given grouping.


Peter Constable



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of
> Christian Galinski
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:20 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Language and Country Codes (fwd)
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> The "Composition of macro geographical (continental) regions,
> geographical sub-regions, and selected economic and other groupings"
> (See http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49.htm) seems to be a
good
> "way out" for certain questions.
> 
> But is it stable enough over time? Should those regions and groupings
> not be accompanied by a date pointing to their composition at a given
> point in time?
> Is the table as it stands somehow complete?
> Is the use of numeric symbols satisfactory?
> 
> Rgds
> Christian
> 
> P.s.
> If we have
> - ISO 3166 (several parts) in en & fr, but several "translations" in
ISO
> members countries,
> - ISO 639 (also several parts in the future)in en & fr & original
> language, but potentially there will be "translations" into other
> languages (e.g. German...),
> I wonder whether the names of "macro geographical (continental)
regions,
> geographical sub-regions, and selected economic and other groupings"
in
> addition to the official languages ultimately should also be available
> in other languages.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf
> Of Peter Constable
> Sent: Dienstag, 29. November 2005 00:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Language and Country Codes (fwd)
> 
> 
> My understanding is that an explicit choice has been made in relation
to
> ISO 3166 not to include identifiers for regions larger than "nations".
> Since RFC 3066 has to be able to deal with significant linguistic
> distinctions in language resources, including being to declare content
> as "Latin American Spanish" or "Caribbean English", some alternative
> means was required. For this reason, the revision of RFC 3066 will
make
> use of the numeric IDs established by the UN Statistics Division, M49.
> (See http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49.htm. These are the
basis
> for ISO 3166-1, and the numeric IDs for nations are common between M49
> and 3166-1; the latter simply excludes larger regions.)
> 
> Thus, under RFC3066 bis (the revision), "Latin American Spanish" can
be
> indicated with the tag "es-419", and "Caribbean English" can be
> indicated with the tag "en-029".
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Constable
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of
> > Rebecca S. Guenther
> > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:55 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Language and Country Codes (fwd)
> >
> > See the below exchange in answer to a question about specifying
> language
> > in a particular area. Since ISO 3166 may be combined with a 639-2
> > identifier and 3166 only specifies countries or country
subdivisions,
> what
> > can we do about regions above the level of country? I guess not much
> but
> > specify all within the region. Does anyone know of any ISO work
going
> on
> > to remedy this problem?
> >
> > Rebecca
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:53:35 -0500 (EST)
> > From: Rebecca S. Guenther <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Cc: "Green, Cameron" <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Language and Country Codes
> >
> > I agree, this is indeed a problem. ISO 3166 now is issued in several
> > parts, but none of them deal with anything higher than the country
> > level. They developed a part 2 which includes subdivisions of
> countries,
> > but of course that is lower level. I suppose at this time you could
> only
> > give multiple codes for all those within the area, which isn't
really
> > adequate.
> >
> > I will send a note to the ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee to see if
> there
> > are any other solutions that someone might recommend.
> >
> > Rebecca
> >
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > ^^^^^^^
> > ^^  Rebecca S. Guenther                                   ^^
> > ^^  Chair, ISO 639-2 Maintenance Agency                   ^^
> > ^^  Senior Networking and Standards Specialist            ^^
> > ^^  Library of Congress                                   ^^
> > ^^  Washington, DC 20540-4402                             ^^
> > ^^  (202) 707-5092 (voice)    (202) 707-0115 (FAX)        ^^
> > ^^  [log in to unmask]                                          ^^
> > ^^                                                        ^^
> >
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > ^^^^^^^
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> > > Rebecca (Library of Congress), if I use the ISO 939.2 & ISO 3166
> codes and
> > > I want to code the Tri-Lang. example below, the attribute I put
> together is
> > > as close as I can get.  It appears that we must pick a country.
> Terms like
> > > Americas, Latin American really don't work with these codes. I
don't
> 
> > > believe there is ISO codes for terms like Latin American is there?
> > >
> > > Example: 3 language. Americas (English) - French Canadian -
Spanish
> (Latin
> > > American)
> > >
> > > Attribute: eng-us, fre-ca, spa-mx  (English-United States,
> French-Canada,
> > > Spanish-Mexico)
> > >
> > > ISO 639.2 Language Codes
> > > http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/englangn.html
> > >
> > > ISO 3166 Country Codes
> > > http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/diverse/doc/ISO_3166.html
> > >
> > > Daniel J. Bauer (Dan)
> > > Consumer and Office Business Information Manager
> > > 3M Company
> > > 223-5N-10
> > > Tel:  651-736-4745
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Forwarded by Dan J. Bauer/US-Corporate/3M/US on 11/28/2005
> 02:01 PM
> > > -----
> > >
> > >              "Rebecca S.
> > >              Guenther"
> > >              <[log in to unmask]>
> To
> > >                                        [log in to unmask]
> > >              11/26/2005 05:31
> cc
> > >              PM
> > >
> Subject
> > >                                        Re: Language Code
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The standard specifies that you can combine an ISO 3166 country
code
> with
> > > a language code. This indicates the variant of a particular
language
> in a
> > > particular country. See ISO 639-2 in section 4.4
> > > http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/normtext.html
> > >
> > > So, for instance, English as in the UK: eng-GB
> > > We recommend the hyphen as separator between the two as per the
> Internet
> > > RFC 3066:
> > > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt
> > >
> > > See also the Frequently Asked Questions:
> > > http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/faq.html
> > >
> > > Please let me know if you have further questions.
> > >
> > >
> >
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > ^^^^^^^
> > > ^^  Rebecca S. Guenther                                   ^^
> > > ^^  Chair, ISO 639-2 Maintenance Agency                   ^^
> > > ^^  Senior Networking and Standards Specialist            ^^
> > > ^^  Library of Congress                                   ^^
> > > ^^  Washington, DC 20540-4402                             ^^
> > > ^^  (202) 707-5092 (voice)    (202) 707-0115 (FAX)        ^^
> > > ^^  [log in to unmask]                                          ^^
> > > ^^                                                        ^^
> > >
> >
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > ^^^^^^^
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 [log in to unmask] wrote:
> > >
> > > > Library of Congress, Network Development and MARC Standards
> Office, below
> > > > is a link to the ISO 639.2 Codes for the Representation of Name
of
> 
> > > > Languages. I have also attached all the combinations of
packaging
> > > languages
> > > > 3M uses for our packaging labels and packages.   As you can see
> there is
> > > > not a direct correlation to the languages 3M uses on packaging
to
> the
> > > codes
> > > > on the ISO 639.2 codes.  Example, ISO 639.2 has no code for
French
> 
> > > > Canadian, no code for Australia English and so on.  Retailers
will
> soon
> > > > require language codes as a core attribute for data synch.   How
> will the
> > > > ISO 639.2 codes address the data synch needs of the Global
> Registry GS1
> > > and
> > > > 1SYNC?  I assume retailers like Staples, WalMart, Home Depot and
> other
> > > will
> > > > want to know if the French is for France or Canada,  Spanish for
> Mexico
> > > or
> > > > Spain. http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639jac.html
> > > >
> > > > 3M Companies types of packaging language combinations: English
> > > > Only (USA) 2 lang. (English - Spanish (Latin American))
> > > > 2 lang. N.Americas (English - French Canadian)
> > > > 3 lang. Americas (English - French Canadian - Spanish (Latin
> American))
> > > > 4 lang. Americas (English - French Canadian - Spanish &
Portuguese
> (Latin
> > > > American))
> > > > 12 Europe Lang.- Danish (Denmark)-Dutch (Netherlands)-English
> (Great
> > > > Britain)-Finnish (Finland)-French (France & Switzerland)-German
> (Germany
> > > -
> > > > Switzerland - Austria)-Greek (Greece)-Italian (Italy &
> > > > Switzerland)-Portuguese (Portugal)-Norwegian (Norway)-Spanish
> > > > (Spain)-Swedish (Sweden) French Canadian (Canada)
> > > > Spanish (Latin American)
> > > > Portuguese (Latin American)
> > > > English (New Zealand)
> > > > English (Australia)
> > > > Danish (Denmark)
> > > > Dutch (Netherlands)
> > > > English (Great Britain)
> > > > Finnish (Finland)
> > > > French (France & Switzerland)
> > > > German (Germany - Switzerland - Austria)
> > > > Greek (Greece)
> > > > Italian (Italy & Switzerland)
> > > > Portuguese (Portugal)
> > > > Norwegian (Norway)
> > > > Spanish (Spain)
> > > > Swedish (Sweden)
> > > > Estonia
> > > > Lithuania
> > > > Latvia
> > > > Chinese (Simplified)
> > > > Chinese (Traditional)
> > > > Japanese
> > > > Korean
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >