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Relator terms (author, editor, translator, librettist, performer) in our 
technical jargon specify a relationship to a particular work. They're 
useful in relation to a given work and for subarranging work titles under a 
person, but they would be misleading if made part of the established 
heading that was not already differentiated by other qualifiers.

Terms for a person's profession are more generalized and more useful as 
qualifiers at the general level, but could lead to expectations that they 
would be applied across the board. The unpredictability of such qualifying 
terms could also make browsing for one "Smith, John" in a long list 
problematic. Date qualifiers can at least narrow the likely candidates 
somewhat in a browse list.

A more neutral alternative would be to allow the assignment of simple 
sequence numbers--0001, 0002, 0003, etc.--to name headings that could not 
be distinguished by more conventional means. The sequence numbers could be 
replaced by date or other standard qualifiers when they became available. 
They could also be preserved in 400 fields to track heading history and 
reduce the risk of assigning the same number twice.

An alternative to making more descriptive qualifying information part of 
the heading would be to put it in a 680 field, and let systems insert the 
680 into the index following the heading as non-indexing text. This is a 
functionality our Aleph system has, so it's doable; though the issue of 
rising expectations could still occur.

Stephen

At 10:11 AM 11/6/2006, you wrote:
>Non-library metadata schemes make far greater use of relator terms than
>we do in AACR2 library-land. These terms do help disambiguate names in
>catalogs (as they do in web browsers where a line or two of text can
>often tell you if it's the right or wrong person). I would rather that
>these terms be in role fields of bib records than in headings, and I
>share Richard's concern about finding a concise, longish-term way of
>stating a person's field.
>
>For an example of role in non-library metadata land, may I suggest
>the "agent" element in VRA Core 4.0 --
>http://www.vraweb.org/datastandards/VRA_Core4_Element_Description.pdf
>
>Sherman Clarke
>NYU Libraries
>[log in to unmask]
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Moore, Richard" <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Monday, November 6, 2006 8:58 am
>Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] undifferentiated name records
>
> > I agree in principle, although the problem with recent and current
> > writers might be to determine what their field is, and how they will
> > subsequently be known.
> >
> > Isn't there an Italian cataloguing standard that does precisely this?
> >
> > Regards
> > Richard
> >
> > _________________________
> >
> > Richard Moore
> > Authority Control Team Manager
> > The British Library
> >
> >
> > Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
> >
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > ______________________________
> >
> > From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of David M Saah
> > Sent: 06 November 2006 12:48
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] undifferentiated name records
> >
> >
> > Agree with Mary Charles and Amy. And maybe reintroduce the use of
> > relator terms (subfield 'e': compilers, editors, translators) when you
> > are really in a bind.
> > David
> >
> > David Saah
> > Coop Team
> > [log in to unmask]
> > Ph: (202) 707-3131
> > Fax: (202) 252-2082
> >
> > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/04/06 12:39 PM >>>
> >
> > Mary Charles, I agree 100% that it would be good to move away from
> > undifferentiated name records.
> >
> > Furthermore, if the cataloging rules would allow an author's field of
> > study
> > in the $c, this would serve as a more useful identifier, for both
> > catalogers and users, than the additions that are currently
> > authorized.Imagine index screens that look like this:
> >
> > Turner, David, economist.
> > Turner, David, electrical engineer.
> > Turner, David, political scientist.
> >
> > Rather than this:
> >
> > Turner, David, 1945-
> > Turner, David, 1947-
> > Turner, David, Ph.D.
> >
> > As automated authority control improves, retrospective changes to
> > headings
> > should become easier and easier.   Perhaps the catalogs of the future
> > will
> > have headings like:
> >
> > Turner, David  (architect)
> > Turner, David, 1945-  (electrical engineer)
> > Turner, David, 1947-  (political scientist)
> >
> > Amy
> >
> > Amy H. Turner
> > Monographic Cataloger & Authority Control Coordinator
> > Duke University Libraries
> > Durham, NC   27708-0190
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             "Lasater, Mary C"
> >
> >             <mary.c.lasater@V
> >
> >             ANDERBILT.EDU>
> > To
> >             Sent by: Program          [log in to unmask]
> >
> >             for Cooperative
> > cc
> >             Cataloging
> >
> >             <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject
> >                                       Re: [PCCLIST] undifferentiated
> > name
> >                                       records
> >
> >             11/04/2006 11:33
> >
> >             AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             Please respond to
> >
> >                Program for
> >
> >                Cooperative
> >
> >                Cataloging
> >
> >             <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > You have touched on a topic/problem that I hope we can 'do better'
> > under RDA. I would like to see us move toward using those phrases
> > that we construct as $c's with the author's name and setting these
> > authority records up that way. THEN when we find out more about the
> > author, we can change the 'distinct' AR instead of the 'non-unique
> > AR if necessary. Several years ago I mentioned in a talk at ALA
> > that I spend too much time looking for how these have changed and
> > would prefer not to even have the non-unique AR. With a linked
> > authority system those changes can be really bad with people
> > writing books 100s of years before they were born. If instead of
> > constructing non-unique's we created individual AR's with the
> > phrases (that we already construct for the non-unique authority
> > records) and then changed that AR when we have more info, linked
> > authority system changes would automatically change the 'correct'
> > authority record, only. Much/all of the time spent looking for the
> > changed heading that is no longer on the non-unique (Is this the
> > Tom Smith born in 1952, or 53, or is it Tom T. Smith or Tom Smith,
> > Ph.D.) would be eliminated.
> >
> > Music catalogers already get to add these phrases and we see this
> > type of 'qualification' on various web tools. What are the
> > disadvantages? Do they outweigh the benefits?
> >
> > Mary Charles Lasater
> >
> > --On Friday, November 03, 2006 2:21 PM -0800 "Paul J. Weiss"
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > I note that the practice of bracketing data in one 670 per person
> > > in an undifferentiated name record is not actually given as
> > > policy anywhere. The MARC authority format give it as one
> > > possibility ("subfield $a may contain a descriptive term for an
> > > author enclosed within brackets "). DCM  Z1 touches on it in the
> > > introduction and at 670. The NACO Participants Manual describes
> > > the practice, but our NACO reviewer at LC continues to remind me
> > > that the PM does not set policy.
> > >
> > > Do any of you _not_ follow that practice? If not, what was your
> > > thinking behind your decision? Have any of you considered some
> > > other practice?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > > UCSD NACO Coordinator
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________
> > > Paul J. Weiss
> > > Catalog Librarian and NACO Coordinator
> > > Metadata Services Department
> > > UCSD Libraries
> > > 858-534-3537
> > > [log in to unmask] _______________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > Mary Charles Lasater
> > Vanderbilt University
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
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>**
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> >
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****************************************************
Stephen Hearn
Authority Control Coord./Database Mgmt. Section Head
Technical Services Dept.
University of Minnesota
160 Wilson Library               Voice: 612-625-2328
309 19th Avenue South              Fax: 612-625-3428
Minneapolis, MN 55455      E-mail: [log in to unmask]