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Re your last line, George, what problems should we be worrying about? Steve Smolian P.S. Sticky shed was not measured for. The variations in error rates are being measured for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GeorgeBlood" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Clarifying the MAM-A gold comment > As I understand, the "issues" (we won't call them "problems") trace the > recent history of the company, as the Gold product line has been sold > several times in the last five years. I'm not clear enough about that > history to recount it, but my impression is that the underlying troubles > are not "greed" but distraction. CD manufacturing and CD-R manufacturing > in particular, is extremely competitive. Price vs. costs are driven more > by survival than by squeezing the last penny out of the customer. Whatever > the reason, our collective concerns are with the ends, not the means -- we > don't buy media because a company makes less money than another, we buy it > because it's "better." "Better" to most consumers is "cheaper". And, > sorry for this dose of reality, there aren't enough folks in archives > demanding "higher quality" to show up as dither in the sales data for > CD-R. Which is where developing relationships to a niche player (like > MAM-A) is potentially good. Keeping in mind of course, my tiny media > supplier moves 500,000 blank CD-R every month. Or probably more than > every CD-R used in preservation world-wide every year. > > We've had serious concerns about the "Mitsui Golds" for some time. We have > test equipment here and have been monitoring their media. It varies very > widely from batch to batch, and have returned batches with poor results. > We also find best results vs. burn speed vary from batch to batch. So we > lose a few dozen discs from each batch to find the best process window. > (Although the MAM-A Gold, according to the company, is rated to 52x, > lately we're finding the best results at 16x. They generally have scored > badly at low speeds, 1x and 2x) A new shipment just came in, so we'll be > going through this again this week.) > > We have found MAM-A very responsive to our worries, have never hesitated > to replace media, and seem to appreciate the feedback and test results. > > I'm not here to be apologist for MAM-A. Back in the day when they gained > their reputation they made exceptionally fine CD-Rs, better than anything > we tested (and we do testing ALL the time -- for some projects, every > single disc; and routinely on all our burners to monitor aging and process > window). > > For consistency and exceptionally low error rates (across the board, BLER, > E11, E12, E21, E22, E31 and E32), TY takes our prize. They're > consistently so good I haven't bothered lately to bring in other cyanine > discs for comparison. But they do stand in stark contrast to MAM-A. > Typical of CD-Rs, MAM-A Golds have high E12 errors. Atypical of CD-Rs, > TY's have very low E12 errors (I'm told no one knows why CD-Rs have > characteristically high E12 errors). > > But does any of this matter? Does the error rate increase? Does it > increase perpetually or does it plateau? Does it accelerate > exponentially? Has entropy been repealed by polycarbonate? By the time > the error rates get high enough to be un-correctable (whether the discs > last for 50, 100 or 300 years), will there be hardware to play them on? > What do accelerated aging tests tell us? (Did accelerated aging tests > predict Sticky Shed Syndrome?) Any good mathematicians out there who can > tell us, in relation to the available error correction power of the > format, how much is being spent correcting for these variations in > manufacturing? Is all this a tempest in a tea pot? > > Are we worried about the right problem? > > G > >>Tom Fine writes: >>>Not disputing your facts at all. However, I find it curious that Mitsui >>>would see such a need for >>>cost-cutting. >> >> >>Of course, I am not privy to the corporate meetings that led to this >>decision, but I'd love to go back in time and preempt it! >> >>It's probably all about market share and dwindling profits. We >>professionals aren't driving this market and will be marginalized >>accordingly. >> >>When I get the chance to contact Mitsui directly about all of this, I'll >>report to the list whatever I discover. >> >>Chas. >> >>-- >>Charles Lawson <[log in to unmask]> >>Professional Audio for CD, DVD, Broadcast & Internet > > > -- > Nominated for Grammy Award 2003:Best Classical Album > Philadelphia Orchestra, Schumann Orchestra works > Producers: George Blood & Simon Woods > > George Blood > Safe Sound Archive > George Blood Audio, L.P. > 21 West Highland Avenue > Philadelphia, PA 19118 > (215) 248-2100 (v) > (215) 242-2177 (f) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL(S) TO WHOM IT > IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL > AND/OR EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. 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