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Pls do not list the names alphabetically - which may work in many cases, but
might be most inappropriate in others.
WE NEED RULES FOR THE SEQUENCE OF LANGUAGE NAMES DISPLAYED TO THE USER
(TOGETHER WITH QUALIFIERS) ACCORDING TO ESTABLISHED CRITERIA! 

...enjoyable holidays and a good start into 2007
Christian


-----Original Message-----
From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Rebecca S. Guenther
Sent: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2006 22:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: (iso639.2308) RE: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German

When we list the language name alphabetially "Alemannic" would come first in
one place (the list by language name). Where we list the code we can change
it.

Rebecca

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Peter Constable wrote:

> For all of 639, I think the English spelling should be changed to 
> "Alemannic" (two 'n's). (Several comments have been made about the 
> "typo in Ethnologue" -- which is the source for Karen Broome 
> requesting "Alemanic".)
> 
> For 639-2 in particular, perhaps reversing the order of English names to
"Swiss German; Alemannic" would be better. The discussion seems to point to
two pertinent points:
> 
> - "Alemannisch" is a (Germanic) name used in relation to at least some 
> dialects of this language
> - "Swiss German" / "SchwyzerdŁtch" is strongly associated with 
> speakers in Switzerland
> 
> Thus, I think I'd be reluctant to remove "Alemannic" as an English name
entirely; but reversing the order might decrease the likelihood that an
English speaker gets the impression that this refers to the entire Alemannic
branch of Germanic.
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On 
> > Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:33 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: (iso639.2308) RE: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German
> > 
> > Sorry, all, I wrote my message before I read this one.
> > 
> > We don't currently have a way to give more information about a 
> > language name, as Peter suggested. We will need to make links to the 
> > 639-3 site for more information.
> > 
> > Rebecca
> > 
> > On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Peter Constable wrote:
> > 
> > > The main concern is to clarify that "gsw" is intended to denote a 
> > > range of varieties
> > deemed to be a single language (one that has the name, among others, 
> > "Swiss
> > German") and not a broader range of varieties that would be deemed 
> > multiple languages (including Swabian and Walser as well as Swiss
German).
> > >
> > > The user concern that has been expressed is that "Alemani[c]; Swiss
German"
> > suggests that "gsw" can be used to mean two different things:
> > >
> > > A)      the collection of Alemannic languages (Swabian, Swiss
German...), and also
> > > B)      the individual language Swiss German (whichever name may be
used to refer
> > to it)
> > >
> > > Our intention is not that "gsw" can be used with a single meaning 
> > > which is A, or
> > that it can be used with two different meanings A and B. We intend it to
mean just B.
> > The only problem is that one of the English names used for B is the 
> > common English name for A.
> > >
> > > I think the particular thing that led to this user comment was 
> > > that, in the machine-
> > readable file for 639-3 that contains the code set, Joan had picked 
> > "Alemanic" as the reference name; he saw that, but apparently did 
> > not also look at file containing alternate names (at one point that 
> > user did comment that "listing Alemanic as the only name" is a problem).
> > >
> > > I think the problem can be resolved by the following:
> > >
> > > -         Having Joan change the reference name to "Swiss German" (or
> > "SchwyzerdŁtsch", for that matter). The reference name is never the 
> > complete story, but to the extent that it gives a first-pass 
> > impression "Swiss German" doesn't have the ambiguity that "Alemannic"
does, and so I think it may be preferable.
> > > -         Communicating that the reference name alone may not always
be sufficient
> > to convey to users the intended meaning of the identifier. (Joan 
> > could add that statement to the page on the 639-3 site where the 
> > data files can be downloaded.)
> > > -         Ideally, we would also have info with the gsw entry
> > clarifying that the use of "Alemannic" is not intended to imply 
> > meaning A (above). On the 639-3 site, there are a couple of things 
> > that help: the entry indicates that it has a scope of individual 
> > language, not collection; and the more-information page for the 
> > entry has a link to the Ethnologue data describing the item in 
> > greater detail. At present, ISO 639-2 doesn't have any means of
conveying additional information on individual entries, though.
> > 
> > > Peter
>