These threads and the embedded topics are highly fascinating. Unfortunately I think the ratio of smoke to light has passed far beyond the useful. I started some notes for a response, but I don't feel it would serve any good. With some reluctance, I've decided to cease any routine engagement in public discussion of cataloguing principles -- objectives, rules, changes, catalogue-vs.-seachengine, "bibliographic control" and kindred topics (with an exception noted below) -- and confine myself to discussion of practical cataloguing. I do this because, after ten years' engagement in these discussions, I've reached the point where I can't bear any longer to go round in the same circles, confronting over and over again the same attitudes. The levels of anger and frustration I'm feeling would very likely lead me to intemperate statement (which, among other bad effects, would very likely alienate friends and acquaintances whom I value), and probably without bringing even any slight compensating benefit. Whether I say what I think or not, RDA will (or won't) come about, will (and won't) be welcomed with glad cries, and will (or won't) be accepted and implemented, and the recording of resources conveying the intellectual and artistic creativity of human beings will go on -- to my satisfaction or dissatisfaction. (If you get the impression I'm disillusioned and pessimistic, you're not entirely wrong.) The remainder of my cataloguing career will be spent chiefly in trying to do well the same kinds of things I've been doing. Nothing I've read and discussed in the last ten years has made me think that any part of good AACR2/ISBD/MARC/LCSH practice is a waste of time, effort and resources; so I'll stick to that (and try to get on with deploying the NACO training I had last year). Time and energy are looking increasingly precious these days (I'll be 65 on Sunday)! My cynical tinge leads me to think that enterprises like the LC working group will probably, at best, bring little more than small mitigation of what LC management probably already intends to do by way of reducing and simplifying LC cataloguing and, very likely, reducing its contribution to and support for the shared cataloguing endeavours that we all depend on so heavily. I shall certainly go on observing the process; friends and acquaintances will probably receive comments from time to time (and are free to quote me, so long as I'm being polite). And, the exception I mentioned: I'm still eager to see the draft of FRAD, when it finally emerges into the light, and plan to comment. (I'm also committed to commenting on the RDA drafts for the ACOC focus group.) Otherwise, I just hope the outcomes will be better than I expect. Hal Cain, Senior Cataloguer, Dalton McCaughey Library (formerly Joint Theological Library) Parkville, Victoria, Australia [log in to unmask]