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I do not have 'golden ears' and I would expect your judgement to be better 
than mine.  I have recently upgraded my system and will listen again to the 
two versions of 'Tabor'.  However, the difference of opinion here is really 
between Mark Obert-Thorne and yourself.  With respect, his reputation is 
second to none.  Any comments from other parties would be most welcome.

Steve Abrams

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)


> Well, to each their own. The critics did not agree with you in most cases. 
> The Mercury mono reissue CD's sold very well worldwide and are now 
> available again as a 4 or 5CD (forgot which) set, all the Kubeliks. I 
> personally greatly prefer the CD's to the original LPs (which we have 
> excellent-condition copies of). Again, everyone's entitled to an opinion. 
> I'll grant you that the master tapes were over 40 years old in 1996, but 
> it was amazing how they played back OK. The LPs noisy surface may mask 
> some of the limitations of tape, machine and microphone.
>
> If the "Tabor" is what I heard, we have very different opinions. I heard 
> all sorts of digital artifacts, obvious tape degradation and a 
> non-realistic stereo pickup. But again, to each their own.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Abrams" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
> question)
>
>
>> What I am saying is that the Mercury Living Presence CD issued in 1996 of 
>> "Ma Vlast" does not sound good.  I remember the LPs sounding better 
>> though I only had them on a cheap reissue in the UK on the Wing label. 
>> The stereo issue of "Tabor" that I know came out last year on Music & 
>> Arts and was restored by Mark Obert-Thorne.  It sounds much better than 
>> the mono version.
>>
>> Steve Abrams
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>> question)
>>
>>
>>> Hi Steve:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the RCA clarification. It was the same set of sessions I 
>>> thought but different works.
>>>
>>> Yes, Bert Whyte was permitted by Mercury to bring his 2-track 
>>> Magnecorder and place a pair of U-47 mics at the Kubelik session. Some 
>>> of the tapes were issued on a small label CD in recent years and sound 
>>> terrible to my ears. Could be the tape is deteriorated, could be the 
>>> playback or transfer equipment wasn't good. Could be the engineer didn't 
>>> properly line up the staggered tracks, etc. They definitely over-used 
>>> digital noise-zapping tools so there are digi-artifacts galore. I 
>>> imagine the tapes sounded better when they were new and played back on 
>>> that Magnecorder.
>>>
>>> Bert's tapes were a personal experiment. Never intended for release. Not 
>>> particularly praised or lauded by the professionals involved in the 
>>> session. In fairness to Bert, this was pioneering in many respects, as 
>>> was his pioneering use of magnetic film recording for Everest.  Bert 
>>> wrote a really nice column for Radio & TV News in 1956 about the day he 
>>> was invited to the studio to hear the first Mercury 3-track tapes that 
>>> were ready for release. He was treated to a full-monty 3-speaker 
>>> extravaganza.
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Steve Abrams" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>> question)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Not quite.  The Munch Damnation of Faust in February 1954 was recorded 
>>>> in stereo but only issued in mono. Something happened to the stereo 
>>>> tapes. The Reiner recordings of  Heldenleben and Salome's dance were 
>>>> recorded on March 6th.  Zarathustra came two days later on the 8th. 
>>>> However - and you should be able to shed some light on this - some 
>>>> stereo recordings were made by Bert Whyte at the December 1952 sessions 
>>>> of the Chicago Symphony recording Ma Vlast under Kubelik.  'Tabor' 
>>>> recorded on December 6th has recently been issued on Music and Arts in 
>>>> a transfer by Obert-Thorne. The very unpleasant overload distortion on 
>>>> the Mercury Living Presence mono set, very evident on the CD issue, is 
>>>> not evident in the stereo version.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Abrams
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:10 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>> question)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested to know what's on them and who released them. I do 
>>>>> not believe you'll find that they are in fact 2T stereo. They are 
>>>>> likely half-track (2-sided) mono. If they are stereo, it would be very 
>>>>> interesting to know who put them out as in 1952 only a few people were 
>>>>> experimenting with 2-channel stereo recording of music. No major 
>>>>> labels yet, although I believe RCA started making 2T masters in 1954 
>>>>> or even 1953 -- I think Zarathustra with Reiner was the first 2T 
>>>>> session.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Jack Palmer" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:29 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>>> question)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>    I bought my first 2 track tapes for my reel recorder/player in the 
>>>>>> Base Exchange in Sidi-Slimane, Morocco in 1952.  I still have a 
>>>>>> couple of them in fact.   Jack
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:40 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>>>> question)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ampex developed their own, was developed by Leon Wortman in NY and 
>>>>>>> detailed in a 1951 Radio & TV News article. Wortman's line made 
>>>>>>> full-track or half-track tapes. Commercial half-track tapes were 
>>>>>>> available as early as 1951 or 1952, but there was only a very small 
>>>>>>> consumer market for reel to reel machines at that point. > Because 
>>>>>>> this was a new format sold at a premium price, a lot of QC attention 
>>>>>>> was paid by the reputable companies in this era, so the net quality 
>>>>>>> is very high. Akin to what happened when stereo LPs came along.
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
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>>>>> 07/04/2007 22:57
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 07/04/2007 
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