Wrt changing a split & retired item to be a macrolanguage, the issue isn't necessarily just about whether the item, e.g. "Southern Zhuang", would be a good choice for a macrolanguage entry. There's also the fact that *the item exists* in the code set, it's denotation includes multiple individual languages, it itself was deemed in some contexts (all past usage) to be an individual language, and IT systems may need the formalized relationship of the macrolanguage mapping to match requests for "Southern Zhuang" with records in "Dai Zhuang" (or vice versa).

In the particular case of Southern Zhuang, it may be sufficient to include the new items into the "Zhuang" macrolanguage. In the general case, though, I'm inclined to think we ought to give a bit more thought to how such splits should be handled in this particular regard.


From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joan Spanne
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: First round of changes for ISO 639-3 review period over

Thanks, Peter, for your response.

With regard to history, the pattern of showing history for retirements is already visible, as with the case of all the retirements associated with Occitan, e.g.,
All the retired code elements will have similar history trails, including the change request documentation leading to them (not present here, since this was a JAC decision).

With regard to splits, no, there are no plans for macrolanguages, just straight retirements with remedy being to choose which of the two or more new languages is the appropriate code element. I discussed the matter of macrolanguages with those for which it might have been relevant, and each requester said that the macrolanguage situation did not seem to apply. Their mere relatedness is not grounds for a macrolanguage, in light of the upcoming part 5.

The 5 individual languages into which Southern Zhuang is being split will be added to the Zhuang macrolanguage group of which Southern Zhuang was a part. I should have included that in the report.

A few other change requests related to code elements that are members of macrolanguages, but they do not affect mappings, except to remove a retired code element from its group in one case. Other cases are name changes only.

I think that covers Peter's concerns on all but Valencian.


Peter Constable <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>

2007-07-10 01:26 PM
Please respond to
ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>


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Re: First round of changes for ISO 639-3 review period over

Thanks for the report. I've commented on Catalan/Valencian in a separate thread. I'll comment on other changes here:

-          2 additional names for entries in Parts 2 and 3: I see no particular problem with accepting these.

-          14 "retirements" in Part 3: My only concern is that documentation gets added for each deprecated entry referring users to the entry into which it has been merged.

-          8 splits to items in Part 3: Can I assume your intent is that the existing items all take on scope of macrolanguage and get mappings to the new encompassed elements? (Out of curiousity, do we end up with any two-level macrolanguage-mapping hierarchies as a result - i.e. a macrolanguage that has a mappings to another encompassed macrolangauge?)

-          50 new entries for Part 3: My only concern is that care is taken to deal with any macrolanguage mappings that may be need to be added.

-          49 name changes in Part 3: I see no particular problem with accepting these.


From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joan Spanne
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 2:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: First round of changes for ISO 639-3 review period over

Hello All,

The first round of change requests for ISO 639-3 underwent review from April 1 - June 30. As expected, not many received any comments, though the Valencian request received 43 comments alone (5 other change requests received one comment each), about 1/4 opposed and 4/5 in favor (including a form letter sent in by 9 people).

I am attaching a document that is my report on the changes, with summaries and recommendations. Three code elements affected are in both Part 2 and Part 3. The changes to these are summarized first in the report. The rest of the report contains summaries of all other changes (those affecting only Part 3).

Obviously action on the three code elements in both parts will require agreement of the JAC. In addition, though, I would appreciate a review of the other proposed changes, as it is just possible that one or more of them might have some effect on Part 2 that I had not foreseen.

To see the actual change request documentation, use this pattern for the link:
where the parameter at the end is the change request number.

In order to minimize delay in posting the results of the requests (at least for those only pertaining to part 3), I would appreciate a response by July 18th, if possible. Debate on the Valencian - Catalan matter may take longer, of course. For more on that matter, please see my message dated 13 Apr 2007.


Joan Spanne
ISO 639-3/RA
SIL International
7500 W Camp Wisdom Rd
Dallas, TX 75236
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