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One option is that we *don't* provide such information and assume that an application will supply it on its own as needed.

Another option is that ISO 639-5 include informative mapping tables listing for each collection all of the entries it encompasses.

A third option is that informative mapping information can be provided in the opposite direction: each entry in 639-1/-2/-3/-5 would include an informative property listing one or more IDs for collections that include that given item.

I think the second or third could potentially be done as a maintenance exercise by the RAs or the JAC, though I also wouldn't assert there wouldn't be grounds for someone to say these required an amendment. IMO, the text in either 3.3 or 4.1.1 of 639-2 does not include anything that would prevent us from making name changes of this nature. On the other hand, adding informative mapping data would represent a significant technical change in the content of any of the standards that might warrant the amendment process.


Peter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 2:10 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
>
> Peter:
>
> There is a problem with understanding the scope of the language if we
> remove "(Other)" and name all these with "Languages". The distinction
> of
> course is that when we use (Other) it means that some of the languages
> within the group have their own identifiers, while others go in this
> bucket. It alerts the user to make sure that the language in question
> is
> not separately defined by its own identifier. So if we don't make that
> distinction it will be hard for the user to know whether to look
> further.
> Perhaps this is an issue of documentation, when you suggest that there
> would be application decisions made for a subset. Currently we don't
> really have a mechanism to make these sorts of statements. Do you have
> a
> suggestion so that we don't totally lose this information? How could we
> document in the ISO 639-2 code lists?
>
> I'm not really concerned about MARC, because we have always said we
> don't
> have to use the same language names, only that the codes themselves
> represent the same entities. But some in the bibliographic world (and
> beyond) use the documentation on the ISO 639-2 site alone and somehow
> they
> will need to understand the scope of the language.
>
> Rebecca
>
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Peter Constable wrote:
>
> > Ping?
> >
> > It's been over a week; I'd like to see us move toward closure on this
> > issue, please.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:45 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> > I want to revive this discussion so that hopefully we can bring
> > closure on it. I introduced two issues at the same time last April,
> > "other" collections, and "mis". The latter got people's attention,
> and
> > the former never got resolved. (The mis issue was resolved, so the
> > passing mention of it below can be ignored.)
> >
> > Millicent replied that removing "Other" may be a problem for those
> > using ISO 639-2 but not ISO 639-3. I responded to that suggesting
> that
> > this can be considered an application decision. Havard further
> > responded mentione 639-5 in the context of the entire 639 family
> > suggesting that 639-2 may be one of many possible subsets in which
> the
> > meaning of "other" would differ - the implication being that each
> > subset needs to define the intension or extension of collections
> > considered to be "other" collections in relation to the given subset.
> > (Havard's message, which includes what Millicent and I wrote, is
> > attached.)
> >
> > I note that the code table in ISO 639-5 FDIS does not include
> > "(Other)" in any entries, including the entries for all of the
> "other"
> > collections currently in 639-2.
> >
> > My proposal to remove "other" as described below stands.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:28 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: decisions required: "other" collections, mis
> >
> > One of the issues I had identified was that the exclusive "other"
> > collections no longer make sense in a general application of ISO 639
> > since now every known language has its own identifier. It was not an
> > issue that absolutely needed to be addressed before part 3 was
> > published, but part 3 is now published, and users of the standards
> are
> > encountering this issue. Specifically, the group that works on IETF
> > language tags is currently revising that spec to incorporate part 3
> > and would like to see all the collections handled consistently in a
> > way that allows their application to treat them all as inclusive.
> >
> > So, I propose that "other" be removed from all collection names
> > (except perhaps mis - I'll discuss that in another thread). I
> > understand that some applications, such as MARC, would still want to
> > treat some collections as exclusive. I don't see this change as
> > contradicting that: we simply need to clarify that, in a particular
> > application that does not use all of the identifiers in the combined
> > parts of ISO 639, particular collections may be used in an exclusive
> > manner, at the discretion of the particular application.
> >
> > Proposed change: make all collections to be of one type with one
> > pattern for naming.
> >
> > Action if accepted:
> >
> > * ISO 639-2 tables and the draft table for ISO 639-5: all names of
> the
> > form "Foo (Other)" changed to "Foo languages". A note added in
> > appropriate places explaining that applications may use collections
> in
> > an exclusive manner according to the needs of the particular
> > application. (Corresponding changes should get made in a revision to
> > the text of ISO 639-2.)
> >
> > * ISO 639-3: A note added in description of collection scope
> > explaining that applications may use collections in an exclusive
> > manner according to the needs of the particular application.
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >