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Although I'm not a voting member, it seems to me that it would be better
to have a formal ballot on all changes.  Are you going to begin to have
separate French and English balloting?  That sounds like a bad idea.

Milicent Wewerka

>>> Peter Constable <[log in to unmask]> 01/11/08 11:04 AM >>>
Apart from the creole & pidgen entries and the car entry, it looks like
all the "+" entries in your table involve changes in (and only in) the
French name. In that case, I'd need to defer to French experts, and my
ballot for all of these would simply copy Anila. I'd be content to skip
the ballot in those cases and allow our French experts to decide on
these. But if others want all of these balloted, I'm also OK with that.


Peter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
>
> Thanks, Havard. If I count right, there are 17 "+" items we'd be
> balloting, if we agreed on balloting all and only those items.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of Håvard Hjulstad
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:27 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask] 
> > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Peter. I have made the corrections in the table:
> > nai : L
> > Nic : L +
> > Smi : L +
> > Tai : L +
> >
> > Going through the table once more I also found the following
changes
> > appropriate:
> > Bai : changed from - to +
> > Khi : changed from L to L +
> >
> > The Creoles and pidgins are "actually" of the "L category", but I
> have
> > marked them "L +" since we cannot insert the word "languages".
> >
> > All "+ changes" are based on input from experts during the
> development
> > of 639-5.
> >
> > The new table is enclosed as document JAC N 60 (as Word and pdf
> files).
> > It is also available on the ISO Livelink system (in the JAC folder
> > under ISO/TC 37).
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Håvard
> >
> > --------------------
> > Håvard Hjulstad
> >   Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> >   [log in to unmask] 
> > --------------------
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:03 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask] 
> > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> > I agree: vote on "+" items but not others.
> >
> > A few comments on the table:
> >
> > - nai is marked "+" but it seems like it should be "L"
> >
> > - nic is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
"L+"
> >
> > - smi: the French name from table 3 is "sames, langues" rather
than
> > "sami, langues"; I assume that's intended? (It's marked "+" so
would
> > get reviewed in balloting, if we ballot "+" items.)
> >
> > - tai is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
"L+"
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > Behalf Of Milicent K Wewerka
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:43 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask] 
> > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > >
> > > Perhaps the items with "+" for other changes should be balloted
> > > separately with an indication of the nature of the additional
> changes.
> > >
> > > Milicent Wewerka, Library of Congress
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> Håvard  Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 01/09/08 5:34 AM >>>
> > >
> > > I agree with Peter's general statement below (and would have
> > expressed
> > > that if I had a vote ...  :)
> > >
> > > Formalities: Do we need a formal ballot? Do we need to split the
> > > ballot somehow into individual items?
> > >
> > > The following table, which is a combination of table A.1 and
table
> 3
> > > from FDIS 639-5 should include all items in question. Items from
> > table
> > > A.1 (in green, if the colour coding goes through the email
> > > distribution
> > > list) should be identical with the current status of 639-2.
Items
> > from
> > > table 3 of 639-5 (in red) would be the suggested form also for
Part
> 2.
> > > In the last column I have indicated the changes: "L" = change
> > "(Other)"
> > > to "languages" in English, and delete the word "autres" in
French;
> > "+"
> > > =
> > > other changes in Part 2; "-" = no changes needed in Part 2.
> > >
> > > Identifier      English name    French name     Table   Change
> > > afa     Afro-Asiatic (Other)    afro-asiatiques, autres langues
A.1
> > > afa     Afro-Asiatic languages  afro-asiatiques, langues 3      
L
> > > alg     Algonquian languages    algonquines, langues A.1
> > > alg     Algonquian languages    algonquines, langues 3       -
> > > apa     Apache languages        apache  A.1
> > > apa     Apache languages        apache, langues 3       +
> > > art     Artificial (Other)      artificielles, autres langues
A.1
> > > art     Artificial languages    artificielles, langues 3       L
> > > ath     Athapascan languages    athapascanes, langues A.1
> > > ath     Athapascan languages    athapascanes, langues 3       -
> > > aus     Australian languages    australiennes, langues A.1
> > > aus     Australian languages    australiennes, langues 3       -
> > > bad     Banda languages         banda, langues  A.1
> > > bad     Banda languages         banda, langues  3       -
> > > bai     Bamileke languages      bamilékés, langues A.1
> > > bai     Bamileke languages      bamiléké, langues 3       -
> > > bat     Baltic (Other)          baltiques, autres langues A.1
> > > bat     Baltic languages        baltiques, langues 3       L
> > > ber     Berber (Other)          berbères, autres langues A.1
> > > ber     Berber languages        berbères, langues 3       L
> > > bnt     Bantu (Other)           bantoues, autres langues A.1
> > > bnt     Bantu languages         bantoues, langues       3      
L
> > > btk     Batak languages         batak, langues  A.1
> > > btk     Batak languages         batak, langues  3       -
> > > cai     Central American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique
> centrale,
> > autres langues  A.1
> > > cai     Central American Indian languages       indiennes
> d'Amérique
> > centrale, langues       3       L
> > > car     Carib                   caribe  A.1
> > > car     Carib languages         caribes, langues        3      
+
> > > cau     Caucasian (Other)       caucasiennes, autres langues A.1
> > > cau     Caucasian languages     caucasiennes, langues 3       L
> > > cel     Celtic (Other)          celtiques, autres langues A.1
> > > cel     Celtic languages        celtiques, langues 3       L
> > > cmc     Chamic languages        chames, langues A.1
> > > cmc     Chamic languages        chames, langues 3       -
> > > cpe     Creoles and pidgins, English-based (Other)      créoles
et
> > pidgins anglais, autres A.1
> > > cpe     Creoles and pidgins, English-based      créoles et
pidgins
> > anglais 3       +
> > > cpf     Creoles and pidgins, French-based (Other)       créoles
et
> > pidgins français, autres        A.1
> > > cpf     Creoles and pidgins, French-based       créoles et
pidgins
> > français        3       +
> > > cpp     Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based (Other)   créoles
et
> > pidgins portugais, autres       A.1
> > > cpp     Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based   créoles et
pidgins
> > portugais       3       +
> > > crp     Creoles and pidgins (Other)     créoles et pidgins
divers
> > A.1
> > > crp     Creoles and pidgins     créoles et pidgins 3       +
> > > cus     Cushitic (Other)        couchitiques, autres langues A.1
> > > cus     Cushitic languages      couchitiques, langues 3       L
> > > dra     Dravidian (Other)       dravidiennes, autres langues A.1
> > > dra     Dravidian languages     dravidiennes, langues 3       L
> > > fiu     Finno-Ugrian (Other)    finno-ougriennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > fiu     Finno-Ugrian languages  finno-ougriennes, langues 3      
L
> > > gem     Germanic (Other)        germaniques, autres langues A.1
> > > gem     Germanic languages      germaniques, langues 3       L
> > > ijo     Ijo languages           ijo, langues    A.1
> > > ijo     Ijo languages           ijo, langues    3       -
> > > inc     Indic (Other)           indo-aryennes, autres langues
A.1
> > > inc     Indic languages         indo-aryennes, langues  3      
L
> > > ine     Indo-European (Other)   indo-européennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > ine     Indo-European languages indo-européennes, langues 3      
L
> > > ira     Iranian (Other)         iraniennes, autres langues A.1
> > > ira     Iranian languages       iraniennes, langues 3       L
> > > iro     Iroquoian languages     iroquoises, langues (famille)
> > A.1
> > > iro     Iroquoian languages     iroquoises, langues 3       +
> > > kar     Karen languages         karen, langues  A.1
> > > kar     Karen languages         karen, langues  3       -
> > > khi     Khoisan (Other)         khoisan, autres langues A.1
> > > khi     Khoisan languages       khoïsan, langues 3       L
> > > kro     Kru languages           krou, langues   A.1
> > > kro     Kru languages           krou, langues   3       -
> > > map     Austronesian (Other)    malayo-polynésiennes, autres
> langues
> > A.1
> > > map     Austronesian languages  austronésiennes, langues 3      
L
> +
> > > mkh     Mon-Khmer (Other)       môn-khmer, autres langues A.1
> > > mkh     Mon-Khmer languages     môn-khmer, langues 3       L
> > > mno     Manobo languages        manobo, langues A.1
> > > mno     Manobo languages        manobo, langues 3       -
> > > mun     Munda languages         mounda, langues A.1
> > > mun     Munda languages         mounda, langues 3       -
> > > myn     Mayan languages         maya, langues   A.1
> > > myn     Mayan languages         mayas, langues  3       +
> > > nah     Nahuatl languages       nahuatl, langues A.1
> > > nah     Nahuatl languages       nahuatl, langues 3       -
> > > nai     North American Indian (Other)   indiennes d'Amérique du
> Nord,
> > autres langues  A.1
> > > nai     North American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
> Nord,
> > langues 3       +
> > > nic     Niger-Kordofanian (Other)       nigéro-congolaises,
autres
> > langues A.1
> > > nic     Niger-Kordofanian languages     nigéro-kordofaniennes,
> > langues 3       L
> > > nub     Nubian languages        nubiennes, langues A.1
> > > nub     Nubian languages        nubiennes, langues 3       -
> > > oto     Otomian languages       otomangue, langues A.1
> > > oto     Otomian languages       otomi, langues  3       +
> > > paa     Papuan (Other)          papoues, autres langues A.1
> > > paa     Papuan languages        papoues, langues 3       L
> > > phi     Philippine (Other)      philippines, autres langues A.1
> > > phi     Philippine languages    philippines, langues 3       L
> > > pra     Prakrit languages       prâkrit A.1
> > > pra     Prakrit languages       prâkrits, langues 3       +
> > > roa     Romance (Other)         romanes, autres langues A.1
> > > roa     Romance languages       romanes, langues 3       L
> > > sai     South American Indian (Other)   indiennes d'Amérique du
Sud,
> > autres langues  A.1
> > > sai     South American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
Sud,
> > langues 3       L
> > > sal     Salishan languages      salish, langues A.1
> > > sal     Salishan languages      salish, langues 3       -
> > > sem     Semitic (Other)         sémitiques, autres langues A.1
> > > sem     Semitic languages       sémitiques, langues 3       L
> > > sgn     sign languages          langues des signes      A.1
> > > sgn     sign languages          langues des signes      3      
-
> > > sio     Siouan languages        sioux, langues  A.1
> > > sio     Siouan languages        sioux, langues  3       -
> > > sit     Sino-Tibetan (Other)    sino-tibétaines, autres langues
A.1
> > > sit     Sino-Tibetan languages  sino-tibétaines, langues 3      
L
> > > sla     Slavic (Other)  slaves, autres langues  A.1
> > > sla     Slavic languages        slaves, langues 3       L
> > > smi     Sami languages (Other)  sami, autres langues A.1
> > > smi     Sami languages          sames, langues  3       (L)
> > > son     Songhai languages       songhai, langues A.1
> > > son     Songhai languages       songhai, langues 3       -
> > > ssa     Nilo-Saharan (Other)    nilo-sahariennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > ssa     Nilo-Saharan languages  nilo-sahariennes, langues 3      
L
> > > tai     Tai (Other)             thaïes, autres langues  A.1
> > > tai     Tai languages           tai, langues    3       L
> > > tup     Tupi languages          tupi, langues   A.1
> > > tup     Tupi languages          tupi, langues   3       -
> > > tut     Altaic (Other)          altaïques, autres langues A.1
> > > tut     Altaic languages        altaïques, langues 3       L
> > > wak     Wakashan languages      wakashennes, langues A.1
> > > wak     Wakashan languages      wakash, langues 3       +
> > > wen     Sorbian languages       sorabes, langues A.1
> > > wen     Sorbian languages       sorabes, langues 3       -
> > > ypk     Yupik languages         yupik, langues  A.1
> > > ypk     Yupik languages         yupik, langues  3       -
> > > znd     Zande languages         zandé, langues  A.1
> > > znd     Zande languages         zandé, langues  3       -
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Håvard
> > >
> > > --------------------
> > > Håvard Hjulstad
> > >   Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> > >   [log in to unmask] 
> > > --------------------
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:39 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask] 
> > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > >
> > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > > Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther
> > >
> > >
> > > > So if we were to change the (Other) to Languages, would that
help
> > > with
> > > > the IETF concerns?
> > >
> > > Yes. The biggest IETF concerns have to do with stability of the
> > > semantic/ID association. Making that change eliminates the
inherent
> > > instability.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks very much.
> > >
> > > Peter