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Jim, I take your point about being aware of fiscal reality, but I also think that saying "as good as you're going to get" might blind us to opportunities to think differently about this. There are other approaches to giving access to Festshriften and like works (i.e. analytic records), yet the practice of putting that information in a 505 (with variations on a theme: 505 + 700at ; 970..) is so widespread that rarely are alternatives even discussed, and I sometimes wonder if those alternatives are even perceived. Most of the articles that talk about enriching catalog records focus almost exlusively on the 505 approach, as though others never even existed. Sure there is the occasional reference to analytics, but it's a passing reference at best. This is just the way it's always been done. But, in essense we already recording the necessary ingredients for creating analytic records, especially in the case of formatted contents notes with 700at. Reconfigured you have skeletal analytic records. We often look to automation to help us reduce the labor of contructing records, so I wonder if we can look to automation in this situation. For example, Connexion and some ILS systems allow us to derive a name authority record from a base bib record. I am just dreaming here, but likewise might we also derive analytic records which would inherit some of the necessary data from the base bibliographic record? Some information, like subjects or classification, might be left to the taggers or input later (isn't that the essense of Tennant's idea of "descriptive enrichment"), yet at least we would have records around which additional data could accrete. WorldCat.org, for example, is already demonstrating the benefits that arise from giving access to records for articles, analytics, books, and everything else all in the same interface. We have an opportunity, don't we, to unlock the potential of data that usually gets locked away in a 505. Might it be useful to treat TOC information in two different ways? Dump the TOC information that lack authors and titles into the keyword hopper. For those that have the base ingredients for analytic records, let's treat them differently. We would get two for one: the usual benefits of keyword access but also improved collocation. We might look to outside of the normal cataloging literature for inspiration, like David Mimno's "Finding a Catalog: Generating Analytical Catalog Records from Well-structured Digital Texts" (http://www.cs.umass.edu/~mimno/papers/JCDL2005/f74-mimno.pdf). Again I am just dreaming, but as a start let's construe formatted 505's as a kind of well structured digital text and derive from that analytic records. Could the ethical dimension here be knowing that we now have real opportunities to expand the edge of the bibliographic universe, thereby increasing access, and failing to do so? Bryan Campbell Library Assistant VDOT Research Library 530 Edgemont Road, Charlottesville, VA 22903 Ph: (434) 293-1903 FAX: (434) 293-4196 Email: [log in to unmask]