And what about:
El Greco y el ciudad Romano del tiempo antico
[sorry--I couldn't resist a little cataloging humor at the end of a hot
summer's week]

-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of lbsun
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] El Greco - to file on "El" or not in titles

It seems the 2nd indicator in this case should be "0" according to LCRI
21.30J and LCRI 22.4:

LCRI 21.30J:
Retain initial articles and record an appropriate value in the non-filing
indicator (indicator position 2). Use value "0" when an article is to be
filed on as follows:
   a) the title begins with an article that appears as part of a personal,
geographic, or corporate name and is retained in such a name according to
LCRI 22.4, LCRI 23.2, or AACR2 rule 24.5A;

LCRI 22.4:
If the language is not Arabic, Hebrew, Yiddish, or Urdu, retain initial
articles at the beginning of the entry element.

I am wondering why the article "El" was not retained in the heading when it
was established.  Was there any particular reason?

Sun Zehua
Principal Cataloger
Hong Kong University of Science and Technology Library

Adam L. Schiff wrote: 

I've found a mix of practice in both OCLC and our local catalog as to
whether the initial article "El" in "El Greco" should be skipped when it is
at the start of a title, such as: 

El Greco and his school 
El Greco in the collection of the Hispanic Society of America 
El Greco revisited 
El Greco in Italy and Italian art 
El Greco to Goya 
El Greco y el arte de su tiempo 
El Greco kommentiert den Wettstreit der Kunste 

So what do you all think?  Should the second indicator in field 245 for
these titles be 0 or 3?  Is there a definitive answer that we could arrive
at?  For the record, the personal name heading is established as: 
Greco, $d 1541?-1614. 

I've seen similar discrepancies with titles beginning with Le Corbusier, but
the predominant coding of the second indicator is 0.  In this case, his
heading is established as Le Corbusier, 1887-1965, so it seems clear that
the initial article in the name is not to be ignored. 

Le Corbusier et l'architecture sacree 
Le Corbusier secret 
Le Corbusier and the concept of self 



Adam L. Schiff 
Principal Cataloger 
University of Washington Libraries 
Box 352900 
Seattle, WA 98195-2900 
(206) 543-8409 
(206) 685-8782 fax 
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