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The recent history of "car":

On 2006-11-3, in a message with the subject "639 issues: clarify denotation as individual language (arc, bin, car, ewo, lua, sah, bo/bod/tib)", I proposed a name change:

c) ID = car, "Carib" (ItoR section 6.5). The name "Carib" is used for three separate languages as well as a language phylum. MARC mentions one particular language by name, Galibi.

Recommendation: equate car with Galibi Carib; change name to "Galibi Carib".

Action needed if recommendation accepted: change name on 639-2 / -3 web sites.

There were no objections to this item. (Milicent Wewerka made comments on Aramaic and Tibetan, also discussed in that message.) On 2006-11-22, wrote concluding that there was consensus to make the change to "car".  On 2006-11-26, LOC published that change.

On 2006-11-28, Rebecca wrote mentioning that and other changes. In a followup mail the same day, she asked for a French form for Galibi Carib (as well as for other items). On 2006-11-29, Anila Angjeli replied with this information:

Galibi Carib                = French : *karib; galibi; carib*

The French forms were revised to those values on the 639-2 site.

On 2007-1-5, Havard wrote asking if the change to the French forms was correct. Several other topics were being discussed that week, and I don't have any record that there was ever a reply to Havard's question.

On 2007-9-6, Joan wrote to the JAC list mentioning a discrepancy between 639-2/-3 versus the draft table in the FDIS for Part 5 in relation to "car". I can't find a copy of that, so can't confirm whether it got distributed on the list on that date. (She wrote a follow-up mail on 2008-11-11 that contains the earlier message.

On 2008-6-9, I wrote mentioning the discrepancy between 639-2/-3 and 639-5, suggesting that the "car" entry be removed from 639-5. Debbie and Joan replied supporting that recommendation.

On 2008-8-6, Joan wrote about three issues to be fixed in the Part 5 table before it got published by LOC, "car" being one of them. Rebecca replied on that particular item, "Yes, it should be removed or a different one added for the group of Carib languages (also called Cariban languages)."

On 2008-11-11, Havard wrote saying he had noted the discrepancy between -5 and -2, and asking how it should be resolved. I replied on 2008-11-13 indicating that "car" should be removed from -5, giving reference to the decision and change made in November 2006.

With all that in mind, I have the following conclusions:


�         We had a consensus in Nov 2006 to treat "car" as meaning specifically Galibi Carib - an individual language. Therefore, it is out of scope for 639-5, and should be removed from the -5 code table.

�         I think it's reasonable for you to request confirmation that the French names listed on the 639-2 site for "car" are correct: the denotation should be specifically, and only, Galibi Carib, as per our Nov 2006 consensus.

�         I think the current English name for "car", "Galibi Carib", is appropriate and acceptable, and should not be changed.

�         If, given the correction to remove "car" from -5, there is no entry for "Cariban languages" (or "Carib languages") in -5, then I think it would be reasonable for one to be added.

Peter


From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of H�vard Hjulstad
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ISO 639 - "car" once more

Dear JAC members,

I am still not entirely "unconfused" when it comes to the item car. Help please ...

The ISO 639-3 and the ISO 639-2 web sites both have Galibi Carib as the English name. But the French names that are registered, are karib; galibi; carib. In my simple mind this doesn't fit together.

The English Wikipedia starts the article on Carib language with: "Carib, also known as Caribe, Cari�a, Galibi, Galib�, Kali'na, Kalihna, Kalinya, Galibi Carib, Maraworno and Marworno, is ...", while the French Wikipedia states "Le kali'na (anciennement appel� galibi<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galibi>) est une langue am�rindienne appartenant � la grande famille des langues cara�bes<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_cara%C3%AFbes> (ou caribes)." You may also wish to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cariban_languages.

It seems to me that we need an ISO 639-5 identifier for "Cariban languages", of which our car is one. And what would be the most appropriate names (in English and French) attached to car? Would Galibi; Carib (note ;) and galibi; carib; karib be the most appropriate?

Best regards,
H�vard

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H�vard Hjulstad
  Standard Norge / Standards Norway
  Postboks 242, NO-1326 Lysaker
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  direkte tel / direct tel: (+47) 67838645
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  http://www.standard.no/<blocked::http://www.standard.no/>
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