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Tom, Very interesting. I thought that ABC had dumped the idea of recording on 35mm after they bought the label from Enoch Light. Thanks for the clarification. --Scott Quoting Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>: > Hi Mark: > > All your posts are good news. Good luck with all your reissue efforts. > > So, are those UK reissues made from copies and safeties or worse? Some > label that was distributed at least for awhile by Universal had out > some of the Everest Woody Herman titles on CD, made from really bad LP > transfers. My old quarter-tracks sound better! > > The authorized Everest transfers, done by Classic, sound very good for > those on the list interested in this corner of music-recording history. > Bernie Grundman did a first-class mastering job. I prefer the 3-channel > high-resolution DVD-audio versions, but the vinyl reissues sound better > than the originals. That's great that more titles are coming. > > Just to clear up one misconception on a related thread. Command > Classics did continue to record some albums on film after Enoch Light > left ABC/Command to start Project 3. The last Command Classics session > done on 35mm was in Pittsburgh in 1967. Interestingly, the main > engineer on that session, Ted Gossman, was an Everest veteran who had > made some of the Everest 35mm recordings nearly a decade earlier. > > -- Tom Fine > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jenkins" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:28 PM > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Project 3 masters > > > Scott/Tom, > > We actually represent the current owners of the Project 3 catalogue, SPJ > Music, for licensing. We have not exploited this particular catalogue > as of yet (as our initial interest was in the Vox catalogue, which is > also owned by them). I'm in the process of getting a list of the type > of masters in the archive still extant (multi-channel, 35mm, quad, > etc.). Presently, the masters for these are in storage in > Massacheusetts. I do not, as of yet, have a good handle on the > condition of these, but will update you when known. > > > Mark Jenkins > President, Licensing Division > Madacy Entertainment LP/Countdown Media > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott D. Smith > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:54 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 35mm magnetic film as a music-master recording > method > > Tom, > > To the best of my knowledge, Command stopped using 35mm as a recording > medium after Enoch Light sold the label to ABC Records in 1965. ABC then > > sold it to MCA, who promptly relegated it to the trash heap of > re-issues. A sad story... > > Richard Gradone did a doctoral dissertation on the career of Enoch Light > > and his record labels while at NYU in 1980. I have never read it, so I > don't know if it might contain any pertinent information or not. > > I have only a few Project 3 original releases. I know that "Patterns in > Sound" series was done on 35mm, but after that, I'm really not sure. > There is also the entire catalog of Project 3 quad releases, which I > assume were probably done on 4 track tape, but could have been recorded > on 35mm 4 track mag as well. > > In general, the recordings that Enoch Light did under the Command label > were considered by many to be both artistically and technically superior > > to the Project 3 releases, which had arrangements which were tended to > be less interesting than those that were done under the Command label. > In general, they didn't sell as well as the Command releases did. > > I have no idea what Essex is doing with the current catalog, or even > where the masters are. My guess is that they are probably in about the > same condition as the Everest masters. > > The only other possible release I can think of might be the 1957 > (Stokowski) version of "Fantasia", release by Walt Disney under the > Buena Vista label. Sadly, the original 1939 recording has been lost to > time, having been recorded on 35mm nitrate film, and later transferred > to 3 track magnetic film over a jury-rigged class A phone line > arrangement in 1955. Despite this, Terry Porter managed to clean it up > fairly well for the 1980 re-release. > > There were also a number of other movie soundtracks which were done on > 35mm mag for film release, some which ran simultaneous session tapes. I > know a few scoring mixers who worked in Hollywood during the early > seventies. They have told me that practices varied from session to > session. Some would run tape and film, others were done only on film > (usually four track or six track), and later mixed to a 2 track tape > master for album release. Since liner notes seldom contained these > details, they are probably lost to time. Nearly every mixer I've spoken > to has preferred the quality of the mag film masters over those done on > tape. This is probably primarily due to the faster speed of the film > (equivalent to 18 IPS), thicker oxide formulations, and wider track > configuration (150 mil for 3 track, 100 mil for 6 track). > > Nearly all the mag film that I have worked with from the mid-1950's > through the late 60's has suffered from some degree of VS, some much > more so than others. Even film that has been stored in decent vault > conditions has suffered, primarily due to the fact that most of it has > been stored in sealed film cans, which doesn't allow for venting of the > film. Most of the films also suffer from various degrees of base warp, > which makes for a difficult situation when it comes to maintaining > film-to-head contact. > > Scott D. Smith > *Chicago Audio Works, Inc.* > > Tom Fine wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> I'm cookin' up some research here and I figured I throw a few >> questions out to the group. The topic: the use of 35mm mag-film as the > >> main recording medium for music albums. >> >> 1. As far as I can tell, before Everest Records started using 35mm to >> do classical music recording sessions, the only prior use of 35mm as >> an album-recording or album-mastering medium was a few cases of >> film-soundtrack albums where the LP master was cut right from the 35mm > >> soundtrack magnetic master. I think RCA issued a few of these early in > >> the LP era but I'm not positive those were from 35mm magnetic masters >> (they might have been from optical masters from pre-magnetic film >> days). Any specific pre-Everest titles would be most appreciated. >> Everest's use of mag-film was circa 1959-60. >> >> 2. The mag-film trend was short-lived, I think. As far as I can tell, >> by 1964 or so, only Command Records was still regularly making 35mm >> mag-film masters for music albums. Any information on other labels >> aside from Command and Project 3 regularly using 35mm as their >> recording and mastering medium in the mid-60's would be appreciated. >> The last Mercury Living Presence film sessions were 1963. Mercury's >> pop Perfect Presence series ended in late 1961, if I recall correctly. >> >> 3. By the late 60's, I think only Enoch Light's Project 3 Records was >> still regularly recording and/or mastering to 35mm. If anyone has >> information different from this, I'd be most appreciative if they'd >> share it. I think Project 3 continued to use 35mm regularly into the >> early 70's, even creating 4-track quad masters. But I don't have any >> specifics about that era and Project 3, so any additional information >> is greatly appreciated. >> >> For those shy and/or discreet, please feel free to ping me off-list >> and thank you in advnace. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- Tom Fine > The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. > Access to this email by anyone other than the addressee is unauthorized. > > ****************************************************************************