I agree. Whole heartedly. You said it well.

After attending several WorldCons and a couple of DragonCons I find  
the attitude at WorldCon exclusive and at DragonCon inclusive.  
DragonCon is so huge and crowded I have personal space issues when I  
go but heck, if they are going to invite me to be on panels and the  
panels include stellar writers such as Justine Larbalestier, Tamora  
Pierce, and Holly Black that is where I'm going to go.

I  went to my first DragonCon because Scott Westerfeld, who writes  
excellent SF that was recommended to me by Vernor Vinge had mentioned  
that he and Justine would be attending it instead of WorldCon. What I  
found were readers who weren't worried about strict classifications of  
genre or what genre a writer was perceived as. They were excited to  
talk about good books read.  A lot of great sf, fantasy, and  
paranormal is being published by some of the romance houses and  
DragonCon does seem to value those authors as much as it values those  
published by traditionally sf or fantasy houses.

DragonCon is huge and most of the media coverage focuses on the tv,  
movie, and celebrity aspects but there are also several tracks for  
readers that are well attended by well read fans passionate about the  

One of my soapboxes is how WorldCon refuses to see YA or teen as part  
of the sf mainstream and won't even consider a YA category for the  
Hugo awards. Right now YA publishing is hot and many of the best  
writers are writing to this market.  Teen sf readers tend to be bright  
and thoughtful. Most sf fans are hooked on the genre in their teens so  
during this renaissance of sf it isn't surprising that the publishers  
are all over it. Most of my favorite sf books last year were published  
as teen books and there is not one iota of difference in quality  
between them and sf published las year as adult.

Happy reading,
Diana Tixier Herald
Rosenberg's First Law - "Never apologize for your reading tastes."

On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:36 AM, E Susan Baugh wrote:

> 	I think that you are absolutely correct in your
> assumption.
> 	Instead of cliquish, I suspect that they are
> snobs. Vampire fiction is hot in the current market
> place, so some feel that it can't be real fantasy
> or science fiction. I believe that this mind set is
> currently killing SF/F fandom.
> 	When I first found others who enjoyed SF/F as
> much as I, the group we was inclusive. As the group
> aged, a shift in the thinking occurred. If you don't like
> the same authors as the old guard readers, then you were
> automatically excluded from the group of SF/F real readers.
> You were no longer a REAL fan, but a pale substitute who
> should be ignored and excluded.
> 	Look at the difference in attendance between
> World Con and Dragoncon. I've been told that Drangoncon
> isn't a real science fiction convention. It is too big
> and has programming that real fans don't like, therefore
> if you like Dragoncon you aren't a real science fiction
> fan.
> 	As you have probably guessed, your observation
> has jerked my chain on what is currently happening among
> science fiction readers as a group. I also suspect that
> this is one the biggest reason for the current decline
> in SF/F fandom.
> Susan
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:58:14 -0400, Helge Moulding <[log in to unmask] 
> > wrote:
>> Dan Hicks <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> I am surprised to not
>>> find Stephanie Meyer's "The Host" on this list. Not that I liked  
>>> the book
>>> much at all, but it has been in the top ten or fifteen of the NY  
>>> Times
>>> Bestseller list for many months. I thought that would get it a  
>>> nomination.
>> Ah, yes, Stephanie Meyer. I know people who say they want to invite
>> writers who draw members to a convention, but when I ask why  
>> Stephanie
>> isn't in the list for consideration it's a deafening silence. Is it
>> possible that
>> SF/F fandom is just as cliquish as the lit-crit crowd, about whose
>> cliquishness we complain bitterly? That would be ironic...
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: