The problem with the mono versions of the late 50's and early 60's jazz is that many of them were 
just combined right and left, and the stereo recording was not mono-compatible. It's like combining 
the Audio Fidelity "curtain of sound" stereo into mono -- it doesn't work.

Even if the original recording was hard-panned left and right, with no center (which happened early 
on because many studios had neither pan-pots nor a center buss), you still get a strange mono 
because of leakage, like cymbols will sound odd or swishy.

One man's opinion -- small-group jazz should have stayed mono! There is zero reason for stereo, 
especially hard-panned stereo, for that kind of music.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Smolian" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies (really)

> Living Presence Promo Copies (back to the header subject)
> I have the following, all Mercury:
> 10"
> OLD 5 Dorati. Sleeping Beauty- Highlights
> Maroon. Demo, not for sale
> Rest 12"
> Not Living Presence
> MG 20047 Billy Daniels Love Me or Leave Me.
> White. Not for sale in red overprint
> MG-20447  Buddy Collette
> White. Promotional Record (at top);
> For Broadcast Only (at bottom)
> MG-20643  Quincy Jones; 20721, D'Rone; 20745. Cugat.
> As above
> MG-20801  Benny Golson
> Green. Text as above
> MG-20938  Quincy Jones
> Pink. For broadcast only. Not for resale- at bottom
> Vendor: Mercury Records Corporation
> MG-20938  Quincy Jones
> Red Vendor, etc.  No promo-type text
> MG-21015  Marti Allen and Steve Rossi; 21070 Slender Thread ST
> Gold. For broadcast only. Not for resale- at bottom
> Vendor: Mercury Records Corporation
> MG-21013  Dingaka. Soundtrack
> Tan. For broadcast only. Not for resale- at bottom
> Vendor: Mercury Records Corporation
> MG-21143  Faron Young. FH- Vol 2
> White. Promotional Copy. Not for sale.  No Vendor
> I used to have the classical Living Presence LPs in mono and
> stereo with the same variety of label colors and markings.
> Sold 'em when they were hot.
> To make things more interesting, some Mercs come with a dash
> between the prefix and record number and some don't.
> Different pressing plants?
> Steve Smolian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 6:25 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
> I read an article about 16 2/3 RPM LPs, I think in an old High Fidelity or
> HiFi Review. It was a
> short fad, right? I think Prestige and some other jazz labels reissued very
> old mono titles in
> discounted double-length records. If I recall the article correctly, Rudy
> Van Gelder was the guy who
> cut those records, and he talked about how it was somewhat of a challenge
> but do-able. The reviewer
> agreed that old mono jazz could successfully be reissued in that medium.
> Anyone know how long that fad lasted and how many records were issued in
> that format?
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Nelson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
> The Seebug juke box company made a "library" unit that played  12" lps. The
> unit was designed to
> play 33s or 16 2/3 rpm music discs.
> 16rpm  12" discs were released by Decca records, mostly bacground music
> type.
> dnw
> --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 12:49 PM
>> Hi Larry:
>> That sounds like a cool toy! Wow, that must have been a
>> 70's thing, the golden age of albums. When you sat down and
>> listened to an album one side at a time. We're back to the
>> pre-album days again in popular music, one song at a time.
>> Music servers are slowly becoming a mainstream component.
>> There will be a day when someone combines something like
>> that into a genuine jukebox interface and they'll have
>> themselves a nice niche product. There are already plenty of
>> virtual jukebox interfaces, but I'm talking about the real
>> thing, including the neon lighting and the pushbuttons.
>> -- Tom Fine
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry S Miller" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>> Tom,
>> Do you know about LP jukeboxes? Not the kind
>> that plays 7-inch 33-1/3 discs, but the type that plays
>> full-sized 12-inch LPs. I've encountered only a
>> couple, one in a long-gone restaurant near the Mizzou campus
>> called the Agora House. Not only were the enchiladas
>> good, for, I believe, a quarter, I could hear an entire side
>> of 'The Doors" or "Surrealistic Pillow." Probably not
>> the sort of thing you'd want to put your shaded dogs on, but
>> if you had a Dynaflex re-issue of something, who
>> cares? By the way, I think it had a Shure cartridge.
>> Larry Miller
>> For a long time, I had dreams of a classic 45-singles
>> jukebox, but then when I started shopping for
>> a well-restored one, it turned out they mostly sound like
>> crap due to both mid-grade to low-grade
>> phono pickups and also the fact that most singles sound
>> like crap from Play One. So net-net, I
>> decided that they're great for noisy bars and diners but
>> not so much for focused listening at home.
>> I admit still being thrilled when I come upon one that
>> still works in a bar or diner. The first
>> thing I do is feed it dollars so I can sample its contents.
>> Nowadays, if you find it working, it's
>> usually on its last legs and the records are circa early
>> 1990's or earlier. No interest in or use
>> for CD jukeboxes; I remember when those first came out,
>> higher prices per play and less fun to use.
>> Plus much less frequent switch-ins of music, at least in
>> the upstate NY market, so the whole purpose
>> of a jukebox was being defeated. It went from a
>> music-discovery machine to an oldies and stale hits
>> machine.
>> -- Tom Fine
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