Thanks Mike-

 That was helpful. I think the question of 10" versus 12" is the final 
frontier. With the drastic drop off in high frequency response audible 
on the inner tracks of a 12" LP my instinct tells me that the if we are 
dreaming the impossible dream that a 10" microgroove @ 78 rpm on 200 
gram virgin vinyl would be just about the zenith of analog disc 
playback. I'm sweating a little just thinking about it.

Does anyone know if such chimerical creatures were ever actually made?



Michael Biel wrote:
> Theoretically the best sound at 78 would be with a microgroove size
> groove since it would be capable of higher frequency response then a
> wide groove, or a microgroove at slower speeds.  There was a label in
> the 50s called Audiophile which produced red vinyl microgroove 78s. 
> When the Soviets started doing LPs in 1953 they issued some at 33 and
> others at 78.  I have about 30 of the 78s.  Unfortunately the vinyl used
> at that time was very noisy.  Later on they used clear red vinyl for
> high quality export copies of widegroove 78s in the early 70s that were
> sold in the U.S. by Victor Kamkin's.  I got copies of them in the 90s. 
> The Soviets released 78s until around 1956 and their shellac was much
> quieter than the vinyl they used for LPs of that era.
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] late date 78
> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tue, October 06, 2009 2:19 pm
> To: [log in to unmask]
> I don't think a modern stereo format was ever done for wide-groove 78's.
> I think but am not positive 
> (and I'm sure someone on this list will jump right in and clarify this)
> that the Bell Labs 45-45 
> 2-channel format invented in the 30's was for standard wide-groove and
> 78RPM. I dunno if a modern 
> stereo cartridge fitted with a 78 stylus would read that groove just
> fine, or if there's some 
> technical difficulty with that. But, more importantly, would you cut
> this modern 12" wide-groove 
> 78RPM record with the RIAA curve? Is that optimum for that format or are
> there physical reasons 
> you'd want to use another curve?
> Being realistic, as far as what's a viable niche market, I think 45RPM
> microgroove LP is about as 
> far as vinyl is going to go in modern times. It is becoming the
> preferred reissue format. I have to 
> say, $50 for the typical 2-disk reissue is above my indulgence budget.
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Aaron Levinson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] late date 78
>> Bob Olhsson wrote:
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From Clark Johnsen: Last time I dared to compare, the Presley 78s (and the Bill Haley, and
>>>> others) sounded better than any LP issue.
>>> I cut a half-speed 78 acetate as an experiment while I was a mastering
>>> engineer at Motown and the results were scary good.
>>> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
>>> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
>>> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
>>> 615.385.8051
>> The near holographic realism of a mint and noiseless 78 is truly something to behold. I think the 
>> 78 rpm 12" LP is the sleeper format of all time...a 30ips 1" two track master transferred to a 78 
>> rpm acetate by Bob O.----the mind boggles.
>> AA