Actually I read it in a library.I know where the library is,They have every issue of High Fidelity.I could run off a copy,but I don't have a scanner.


--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:14 AM

That's the article I remember! Unfortunately, my High Fidelity mags from that timeframe are library-bound, so impossible to scan the article. Any chance you can scan it, Roger, so we can get it put somewhere for public consumption?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kulp" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige

There was quite an article about them in High Fidelity when they first came out in 1957.Something about "There's a long,long play" in the title.It had a nice picture of Rudy Van Gelder,and the cutting lathe.


--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Michel RUPPLI <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Michel RUPPLI <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:28 PM

Hi Tom and other members,

As far I remember, the info I collected on the Prestige 16 2/3 came from a catalogue where they wefre listed. I have not invistagated more on that series, as I was primarily interested in session contents, and lesser on records which reproduced them - although it was evident I had to list all singles and albums whicb were made available to general public. Then I have no info on Prertige policy about that series nor on its production and use
I have not specially researched other labels having produced 16 2./3 records. However the Vogue label in France produced such records. They had a 9 in a 7 in. series and 7 in a 10 in. series, according to the catalogues I used). Both were primarily made of reissues (popular dance music - generally selections of various Vogue artists, including popular French jazz artists of the time like Sidney Bechet who was living in France).
Michel Ruppli

Le 4 oct. 09 à 19:42, Tom Fine a écrit :

> Bonjour Michel:
> Do you recall, from your discography work, if any other jazz labels did these slow-speed records? Any idea why Prestige? Also, did anyone except Van Gelder master these things? I have to dig out that old article, when I get a chance, but as I recall it, Prestige was marketing these records as a discounted music medium (ie twice the tunes for the same price as an LP), not as a specialized thing for a specialized jukebox.
> Did this ever catch on with spoken-word labels? It seems that would be the natural market for this medium -- two hours on one 12" record, the ability to fit a whole play or short book into a 2-LP gatefold instead of a box. Also reissues of mono opera recordings?
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel RUPPLI" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige
> Remember that my Prestige discography (Greenwood Press - 1980) listed
> the Prestige 16 2/3 LPs series, including:
> 3 Miles DAVIS (contents identical to Albums PRLP 7109 + PRLP7150)
> 5 George Walington/Phhil Woods (same contents aa New Jazz albums NJLP
> 8207 + NJLP 8304)
> No info available on 7 and 8 when I researched that series in early 70s.
> Michel Ruppli
> -------
> Le 3 oct. 09 à 21:22, Michael Biel a écrit :
>> Tom Fine wrote:
>>> I read an article about 16 2/3 RPM LPs, I think in an old High Fidelity or HiFi Review. It was a short fad, right? I think Prestige and some other jazz labels reissued very old mono titles in discounted double-length records. If I recall the article correctly, Rudy Van Gelder was the guy who cut those records, and he talked about how it was somewhat of a challenge but do-able. The reviewer agreed that old mono jazz could successfully be reissued in that medium.
>>> Anyone know how long that fad lasted and how many records were issued in that format?
>>> -- Tom Fine
>> I hesitate to change the subject line because apparently my previous shorter answer to this was not seen in another subject head. In 1958 Vox issued 8 and Prestige issued 6 (?) 12-inch 16 2/3 XLPs that were all mastered by Rudy Van Gelder. I have three of the Vox, and I have never seen any others anywhere except these three in the warehouse of the record distributor where I worked in 1966 and gave them to me as unsalable. "The Long Player" and "Jazz and Pops" catalogs listed them in a special section for about a year, and I suppose this means that Sam Goody's was trying to sell them! If I had more time I'd check when they entered and left the catalog, but this is wha16t 1was there in the 2nd half of 1958.
>> Prestige
>> 1 Concorde -- Modern Jazz Quar, Milt Jackson Trio
>> 2 Let's Get Away From It All -- Billy Taylor 4 Three Trombones -- Jay Jay Johnson, Kai Winding, Bennie Green
>> 5 Modern Jazz Survey -- NY Jazz
>> 6 Modern Jazz Survey -- Baritones & French Horns
>> 8 Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants
>> I have no idea what happened to 3 or 7. 5 & 6 didn't appear until the Oct 58 catalog.
>> Vox
>> VXL-1 Tchaikovsky Piano Con 1, Romeo & Julie, Sym 6
>> VXL-2 Beethoven Emperor and D Maj Violin Cons, Corioian & Leonore Overs
>> VXL-3 L'Arfesienne 1&2, Polovetsian, Scheherazade, Nutcracker S.
>> VXL-4 Geo Feyer -- Round the World, Round the Clock
>> VXL-5 Syms: Beethoven 5, Dvorak 5, Prokofiev 1, Schubert 8
>> VXL-6 Piano Cons: Grieg, Liszt 1, Rach 2, Schumann
>> VXL-7 Dance Party -- Barreto, Monese, Sandauer
>> VXL-8 Violin Cons: Tsch, Paganini 1, Mendelssohn, Bruch 1
>> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Nelson" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>>> The Seebug juke box company made a "library" unit that played 12" lps. The unit was designed to play 33s or 16 2/3 rpm music discs.
>>> 16rpm 12" discs were released by Decca records, mostly bacground music type.
>>> dnw
>>> --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 12:49 PM
>>>> Hi Larry:
>>>> That sounds like a cool toy! Wow, that must have been a
>>>> 70's thing, the golden age of albums. When you sat down and
>>>> listened to an album one side at a time. We're back to the
>>>> pre-album days again in popular music, one song at a time.
>>>> Music servers are slowly becoming a mainstream component.
>>>> There will be a day when someone combines something like
>>>> that into a genuine jukebox interface and they'll have
>>>> themselves a nice niche product. There are already plenty of
>>>> virtual jukebox interfaces, but I'm talking about the real
>>>> thing, including the neon lighting and the pushbuttons.
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry S Miller" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>>>> Tom,
>>>> Do you know about LP jukeboxes? Not the kind
>>>> that plays 7-inch 33-1/3 discs, but the type that plays
>>>> full-sized 12-inch LPs. I've encountered only a
>>>> couple, one in a long-gone restaurant near the Mizzou campus
>>>> called the Agora House. Not only were the enchiladas
>>>> good, for, I believe, a quarter, I could hear an entire side
>>>> of 'The Doors" or "Surrealistic Pillow." Probably not
>>>> the sort of thing you'd want to put your shaded dogs on, but
>>>> if you had a Dynaflex re-issue of something, who
>>>> cares? By the way, I think it had a Shure cartridge.
>>>> Larry Miller
>>>> For a long time, I had dreams of a classic 45-singles
>>>> jukebox, but then when I started shopping for
>>>> a well-restored one, it turned out they mostly sound like
>>>> crap due to both mid-grade to low-grade
>>>> phono pickups and also the fact that most singles sound
>>>> like crap from Play One. So net-net, I
>>>> decided that they're great for noisy bars and diners but
>>>> not so much for focused listening at home.
>>>> I admit still being thrilled when I come upon one that
>>>> still works in a bar or diner. The first
>>>> thing I do is feed it dollars so I can sample its contents.
>>>> Nowadays, if you find it working, it's
>>>> usually on its last legs and the records are circa early
>>>> 1990's or earlier. No interest in or use
>>>> for CD jukeboxes; I remember when those first came out,
>>>> higher prices per play and less fun to use.
>>>> Plus much less frequent switch-ins of music, at least in
>>>> the upstate NY market, so the whole purpose
>>>> of a jukebox was being defeated. It went from a
>>>> music-discovery machine to an oldies and stale hits
>>>> machine.
>>>> -- Tom Fine