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And what a time-sucking vortex it is... I've been writing a discography for Columbia Masterworks 78 rpm recordings - one year down and 380 pages later! By the way - the W.E.R.M is full of errors. I've had to cross-reference everything to do with Columbia to get it sorted. Also- the Columbia record catalogs are also error ridden - particularly the mid 1940's editions. Sam Hopper On 10/04/2010, at 7:16 PM, Tom Fine wrote: > That's an interesting site. But how do you get it to correctly load information into MP3 tag fields? That's the point of my complaint -- that the existing load-in databases (Gracenote and freedb) are so sloppy and inconsistent with info for classical albums that they almost always require manual corrections. Another listmember pinged me off-list to ask if I had found anything to catalog my classical CD's, and I told him no because I just don't have the time to correct the data for every CD. With the jazz CD's, it was a 50+% rate of _something_ needing manual correction in order to have consistency. This was very time-consuming. With classical, I can only imagine the time-sucking vortex involved. So I just keep them organized on the shelf and sometimes surprise myself with "oh I didn't realize I already owned that disc" moments." > > -- Tom Fine > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baoshan Sheng | International Classical Music Database" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 12:07 AM > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] article points to some of the problems with classical music and iTunes > > >> Hi Tom: >> >> Have a look at a project: http://a9music.com (somewhat stale, we're working >> at it now). >> Try to make some search and exploration. I want to know if this is what you >> need. >> >> Any kinds of critics is truly welcomed. >> >> Regards, >> -- >> Baoshan Sheng >> Director | International Classical Music Database >> + 86 10 5162 6468 | [log in to unmask] >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Steven C. Barr <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]> >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/arts/music/04download.html >>>> This article highlights an overall interesting trend. But the reviewer >>>> also points out the confusing and inconsistent tagging that happens with >>>> classical music in MP3 and other tag-enabled formats. >>>> I have found that cddb/Gracenote and freedb are fraught with problematic >>>> and inconsistent data-entry for classical titles. There are actually tags >>>> that work great for how classical music is generally understood -- >>>> COMPOSER, ARTIST, ALBUM ARTIST and ALBUM TITLE for instance. You can >>>> customize iTunes and other database programs to list by whatever field you >>>> wish, for instance by artist and album title or by composer and title, so if >>>> the data is entered correctly, it need not be totally PITA to use classical >>>> music in an iTunes setting. But unfortunately, most of the pre-programmed >>>> metadata out there is garbage, typical of internet "group volunteer" >>>> operations with no oversight or quality control. Sometimes "help" is not >>>> helpful. >>>> What has surprised me is that the owners of copyrighted classical >>>> recordings haven't gotten together to standardize and publish correct >>>> tag-entry methods and to correct at least their active catalogs. I can >>>> understand how there's no economic incentive to fix out of print items, but >>>> the active catalog gets lost in the shuffle (ipod pun intended) if the tags >>>> aren't right. >>>> Classical titles are just the most glaring examples of the problems with >>>> the online auto-tag databases. I used the Catraxx catalog-database program >>>> to gather and organize my jazz, rock, country and popular CD's and I found >>>> that at least 50% of the auto-loaded tags needed tweaking for something. >>>> Either the recording year was wrong (most common), or something that was not >>>> a compilation was listed as one (also very common), or in the case of jazz, >>>> the musicians weren't listed in the MEMO field (this is a convenience and I >>>> don't hold it against the online databases that this information is usually >>>> missing or incorrect), or the record company was incorrectly or >>>> inconsistently named (very common), etc. >>>> Gracenote is a for-profit entity, so there should be better quality >>>> control. Apple's own database at the iTunes store has more errors than you'd >>>> think in the more obscure corners of jazz, and classical selections are >>>> harder to correctly indentify and locate than rock or jazz. For these >>>> for-profit entities, there's no excuse for the poor quality control. And >>>> what's particularly galling is, none of this should be necessary since CD >>>> Text was available from the beginning of CD's and should have been used to >>>> correctly identify artists and songs (which would then make filling in other >>>> tags much easier and more prone to be complete and correct). >>>> I wish I could propose an easy solution to this, but the only one I can >>>> think of is that buyers of digital downloads demand better tagging/database >>>> information from the highly profitable entities they buy from. As for >>>> cleaning up Gracenote and freedb, I won't hold my breath. I do submit >>>> corrected information to Gracenote from both Catraxx and the iTunes software >>>> most of the time, and appreciate all other users who do so too. >>>> >>>> What is needed is a ACD...a classical-based equivalent to the familiiar >>> ADBD!! >>> Currently, there is NO discography covering the classical-music recordings >>> of 19??-1943...I discovered this when attempting to include classical discs >>> in my Dating Guide...? >>> >>> Steven C. Barr