Roger What kind of vectors did the Pathes have ? Roger ________________________________ From: Art Shifrin <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 9:35:38 AM Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Glass Records Hi Gang, The planes or vectors of grooves (especially of some pre 1920s acoustic '78s') need not be horizontal (lateral) nor vertical (hill 'n' dale). They can be diagonal. Such disks were claimed to be 'compatible' & ostensibly suited for lateral and vertical 'talking machines'. Typical mechanical compliances of the pickups rendered such disks meaningfully less than optimal on lateral & vertical machines. It's my opinion that it wasn't until a modern ('post Blumlein') stereo cartridge was made and fitted with an appropriate stylus that such disks could be played 'optimally' (meaning, as well as such disks could theoretically be tracked). The technically best 'compatible' ones that I've encountered were made by Arto. BTW is it known if Victor ever attempted or took action against Arto for its knockoff of Victor's 'batwing' label design? I'm not using 'phonographs' because due to copyrights ,some manufacturers used different terms. i.e. Columbia did not make disk phonographs. It made Grafonolas and Graphophones. Art (Shiffy) Shifrin