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Long ago, differences from listening tests were surprisingly traced to subtle differences such as disc unbalance, tangential variation of reflectance, and radial tracking (push-pull). Since only one "gold" brand was evaluated, I would doubt that the listening results validated gold metallization. Media Sciences has publicly offered to test one recorded CD-R disc at no charge and would gladly do so for the gold disc. Please follow the directions at: http://www.mscience.com/test.html#FRETST Jerry Media Sciences, Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Corey Bailey > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 2:22 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Gold layer CD media vs silver. (Was Falcon Optical > Media) > > Thanks to all that replied to my original post. I > found the observations both interesting an informative. > > When I wrote the first reply, I summarized the > results of my listening tests because my > observations were really anecdotal. I found it > interesting at the time that two out of three > other listeners (trained engineers) observed the > same results and ended my query there.. I should > note that my original observations were not > mentioned until we compared results. The other > listeners were only asked to listen to the same > song on four different disks, each representing > the three dyes and the one gold disk, the same disks that I had listened > to. > > I have compiled some of the replies and answered > them in hopes of shedding some light on the questions: > > Tom Fine wrote: > “I also have heard similar things to what Corey > heard in a gold MAM vs. a blue-dye T-Y, played > back in a mid-90's vintage Philips CD player. > Played back via my Tascam CD recorder, I couldn't > hear any difference. I am guessing that older CD > players have trouble reading the gold-backed CDs > and thus either more error correction is going on > or for some reason jitter is being induced, or > some other digital-realm thing is going on.” > > Greg Schmitz wrote: > “I can't help but wonder if Corey's observations > might be tied to the ability of his playback > device to correctly read all of the data from > "Gold" CDs? Could it be that the playback device > is compensating for data it can't retrieve and > thus dropping or reinterpreting part of the spectrum using it's own > software?” > > For my own listening tests at the time I played > the CD-R’s on three different devices: The > original burner (A 2X Phillips) a Panasonic DVD > player and a mid 80’s ADC CD player. The same > pair of headphones was used for listening. The > ADC sounded the most strident of the three > players I tried but that seems to be a character > trait of that player which I’ve always attributed > to the DAC’s (and possibly error correction > circuitry) of that era. As far as the other three > listeners are concerned, I don’t know what > equipment they used for playback. Nonetheless, as > Tom and Greg suggest, we could have been hearing > the difference in error correction. > -CB > > Jerry Hartke wrote: > “BTW, how many "gold media" brands did you try? > Did they all have gold metal or just gold paint over silver metal?” > > The gold CD’s for that (and the latter) > experiment were Kodak, the only brand tried. > -CB > > Cheers! > > Corey > Corey Bailey Audio Engineering > > > >In 2002 I was given the task of archiving some > >¼”, 15ips music masters for a client who was > >very specific about the delivery requirements > >and even the CD burner to be used. The burner > >had to be either a certain model Plextor or an > >early model Phillips (a 2X burner). The CD media > >for playback had to be Taiyo Yuden brand cyanine > >(green) dye CD-R’s. The archival media for the > >flattened files was to be Kodak gold. All of > >this came from the debate at the time that > >cyanine, although the least stable was the best > >sounding of the three available dyes and that > >gold-layered CD’s were, in fact, the worst sounding. > > > >This prompted me to perform my own listening > >tests and indeed, I was able to detect a slight > >difference between a gold-layered CD-R and a > >silver layered one. The gold-layered CD-R > >sounded a bit harsher in the mid range to me > >than the silver layered samples. I tried product > >with all three dye types but the audible > >difference to me seemed to be the reflective > >layer more than the dye type. I had three other > >professional engineers listen to the sample > >discs and two reported the same results while > >the third professed to not hearing a difference. > > > >About six months later, I tried the same test > >with a different genre of music that had also > >been sourced from 15ips masters and noticed the same result. > > > >Since then I offer silver layered CD’s for the > >clients playing copies with the disclaimer that > >they are not considered archival quality. > > > >Cheers! > > > >Corey > >Corey Bailey Audio Engineering > > > > > >At 04:45 PM 11/9/2010, you wrote: > >>It seems that Falcon hit the world with a new > >>production facility in the UAE in 1998 and > >>Bernie Grundman was using them as of 1998 > >>according to what I read on Gearslutz.com. > >> > >>My challenge is that one of the last two MAM-A > >>dealers here in Canada is switching to Falcon > >>and has apparently switched the RCMP already > >>and it is becoming most difficult to get the gold archival MAM-A discs > here. > >> > >>I guess I could self-import them from Am-Dig, > >>or even direct from MAM-A, but that is a lot of work and expense. > >> > >>Yes, I try to get most of my clients over to > >>downloaded files or hard-drive delivery, but > >>that exacerbates the problem for the few > >>remaining clients who really, really want CDs of grandmother's wedding. > >> > >>Has anyone used Falcon CD-R and DVD-R blanks? What has been your > impression? > >> > >>It seems the recordable optical media business > >>is another submerging technology. <sigh> > >> > >>Thanks! > >> > >>Richard > >>-- > >>Richard L. Hess email: [log in to unmask] > >>Aurora, Ontario, Canada (905) 713 6733 1-877-TAPE-FIX > >>http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm > >>Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.