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Likewise, I haven't had much use for the digital versions of the later Stones catalog.  The Abkco releases, especially the 2002 ones, benefitted from good tape research and the use of 1960s UK 45 & LP pressings for comparison wherever possible.

I love to play the SACD versions of "Gimme Shelter" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" for people. Their jaws always drop the way mine did the first time I heard them!

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From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:55 PM
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Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights

The Rolling Stones SACD's were outstanding. I've downloaded two albums of the 96/24 PCM files and they sound very good too. Anything, even the first pass at CDs from the 80's, sounded better than the junkola London LPs I grew up listening to. I'm sure the original European LPs sounded better. I do like the LP covers, so I kept them for the cover art.

The Rolling Stones Records albums haven't fared as well, in my opinion. They were first reissued on CD by Columbia, with OK but not great results. They were subsequently reissued by Virgin and some of those were highly, highly compressed. There's been another reissue, I think LP only for the whole series but "Exile On Main Street" was a deluxe CD reissue with extra tracks (both discs were toothpaste-compressed). The original Atlantic LPs range from OK to very good, to my ears. I have early 80's pressings of them, the original pressings from the 70's may be better. There are still a couple of B-sides of singles that didn't make it to CD, they put out a "odds and ends" CD in the past 10 years or so that gathered up some of them.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barton, Matthew" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights


I think there have really only been two digital passes on the Rolling Stones Decca-era material. An initial one of CDs and vinyl in the 1980s, which was extensive but not comprehensive, and the dual-layer CD-SACDs that they did in 2002. This was pretty comprehensive, and some vinyl was pressed as well, derived from the DSD work that had been done. "Metamorphosis" was included. The 2002 SACDs, IMHO, are wonderful, especially "Let It Bleed" and "Beggars Banquet." None of the Rolling Stones had any input on this, as they don't own these masters, but I heard that they were generally quite pleased with the results.

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights

Rolling Stones do not own their Decca-era masters (through "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out").  They started their own record label, first distributed by Atlantic, in 1970. There was a fight with Decca over a last album owed. "Metamorphosis" resulted, which contained out-takes and incomplete tracks. I forget the exact history, but I think the Stones did not authorize its release, but what they delivered to Decca was un-releasable.

Allen Klein (Abkco) ended up owning the Decca-era Rolling Stones material, and his son has reissued it in several digital formats over the years.

The Kinks' early Pye-era material is also not owned by them. They do seem to own or at least control release of their early concept albums and Arista-era material. That, too, has been reissued in several digital formats over the years.

I'm not sure which material the Who and Pink Floyd actually own, but they seem to have a lot of say over reissues, or there's a productive cooperative relationship between labels and artists. Both groups have overseen what I consider very good remaster/reissue programs in the 90's and early 2000's. Led Zeppelin also oversaw much better CD reissues of their material in the late 90's. Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono also seem to hold some sway over how EMI handles Beatles reissues.

The Abkco-era Rolling Stones, the Kinks masters under the group's control and Paul McCartney's solo catalog, now partially controlled by the artist, have recently been reissued as high-resolution digital downloads sold by Chesky's HDTracks website. It's probably too much to hope, but it would be great to see all of the classic 60's and 70's rock albums reissued that way.

-- Tom Fine


----- Original Message -----
From: "Barton, Matthew" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights


Artist ownership of masters has become relatively common in recent years, but from what I've seen, 
that's been driven by the indie labels and artists. A lot of major artists, often those at the 
superstar level, do own their masters. As Bob points out, they often get ownership when they re-up 
with a label, but does that apply to ALL of their recording for the label, or just their work from 
that point on? Buck Owens owned all of his Capitol masters, but that was a deal he negotiated when 
had the clout and the money to do so. Many artists own SOME of their masters, but not the most 
valuable ones. I believe the Beach Boys own their masters from 1969 on--some valuable material is 
included, but their earlier material is worth far more. I think the Kinks and Rolling Stones also 
own their later masters, but not the 60s hits. It doesn't surprise me to learn that Stevie Wonder 
owns his masters--he's a superstar. But do Motown artists like Mary Wells or the Contours own their 
masters? Certainly, Cameo-Parkway artists such as Chubby Checker, Bobby Rydell and others had no 
control over their recordings. That catalog was out of print and unavailable on CD until only a  few 
years ago, when Abkco reissued it. From what I can see, most authorized, legitimate reissues are 
produced by or licensed from the labels, or from the current owner of a label's catalog.

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From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
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Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 1:20 AM
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Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've 
had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights

In the jazz world bassist  Charles Mingus owned many of his masters and in the Latin world bassist 
Bobby Valentin did the same thing. Many artists self-financed as they did not want to owe the 
company store and they often struck better deals in the process. If I am.not mistaken Tom Waits also 
did this at a certain point with his latest label Epitaph. But perhaps the most remarkable example 
was Frank Zappa who owned every album he ever made.

Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Bob Olhsson <[log in to unmask]>
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Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2011 03:37:46 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Morning reading: One take on patents, somewhat related to discussions we've 
had on copyrights, plus a take on copyrights

-----Original Message-----
From Michael Biel: "  You often tell us you worked for Motown.  What Motown performer owns their 
masters?"

Motown was launched by Berry Gordy and Smokey Robinson buying back the lease of their master "Shop 
Around" from Chess as it climbed the charts! I know for a fact that Stevie Wonder owns all of his 
masters and I'm sure a number of the others do also. It's a pretty common part of any popular 
artist's second record deal with the same label. When I started asking around a few years ago I was 
shocked by how common master leases have actually been.

Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound 
better than they ever imagined!
615.562.4346 http://www.bobolhsson.com http://audiomastery.com