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There is some confusion here.  The HRS referred to is the Historical- not
Hot- Record Society.  They issued classical vocal sides as did IRCC- the
International Record Collectors' Society.   

Those pressed from masters were done by the original record companies or
their U.S. affiliates. RCA Victor for Victor and EMI products, Columbia for
theirs.  The dubs were almost certainly unauthorized- things were a lot
looser then, at least in this respect.   

Editions were small- between 50 and 100 initially, though some were
represed.  A member could order any so long as stock remained.  The labels
of many initial pressings were signed by the artist, then sent to be placed
on the records during manufacture.  Later editions of the same record may
lack autographs.  Not all were signed as not all artists were still alive at
the time these issues occurred.

I buy from people like Larry Holdridge and Kurt Nauck who do great packing.


Steve Smolian

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources

Some questions about these "societies" and "clubs":

1. how legit were these "reissues"? Were these like Biltmore and other
pirate labels, making junky dubs of old records, or were they real reissues
made from original parts licensed from the record companies? If I understand
what George is saying below, the IRCC was licensing material from EMI, which
EMI would press for them from metal parts in their files? Were they unique
in this?

2. how did subscriptions work? Did you only get what was being pressed at
any given time or could you choose from other items like Book of the Month
Club?

3. how in the world did they package shellac records for postal
distribution? I've had such bad luck with eBay sellers that I'm guessing
this is a lost art if it was done successfully by those subscription clubs.

4. in the case of HRS, this was based out of a store, so could you buy the
records in the store?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources


> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> Hello Tom,
>
> thank you for commenting further, and I am sorry I was not precise. The
fact
> is that I am interested in the dates that these versions of the old
> recordings were first made available to subscribers (I suppose your HRS
used
> subscribers).
>
> So, the left-hand column looked very promising, although it says "Cat #".
We
> get dates from May 1937 - to December 1938. After that it is only
catalogue
> numbers. Apparently, the later issues from the late 40s are, as you say,
> original, and so the recording date, which is given, will be close to the
> issue date.
>
> The fact is that the distribution of records happened around the issue
date
> and not around the recording date. These semi-private distribution
activities
> were part of the record scene, and I find those dates interesting.
>
> Incidentally, the IRCC were not able to order pressings from EMI by giving
> Artist's names, because press runs could only be ordered by matrix number.
So
> they guessed at matrix numbers clustered around those had been published
in
> order to find unissued material. And they did. Presumably, the test
pressings
> Seltsam ordered were from the original negatives, which makes later
re-issues
> in vinyl slightly less pristine.
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> George
>
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>> I'm not sure what you're talking about. The first link is for a listing
of
>> the Hot Record Society,
>> reissues and original issues. There ARE dates after 1938, many covering
>> HRS's original issues made
>> in the mid and late 40's. See the detailed book that accompanied the
Mosaic
>> reissue of those
>> records. As far as I can tell, most of the original dates from "pirate"
>> reissues are covered in that
>> listing, although they may or may not be correct.
>>
>> As with any information on a website, if I were doing anything
authoratative
>> like a reissue booklet
>> or discography book, I'd double-check everything with from-the-day
printed
>> sources, which requires
>> trips to libraries and the like. I checked a few of the original-issue
>> session dates from the late
>> 40's and they match up with the Mosaic reissue book.
>>
>> I don't know anything about the IRCC label, so I won't comment on that
page
>> of the website.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>>
>>
>> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> >
>> >
>> > - nope, none will do: the HRS is not Historic Record Society (as in the
>> book
>> > "70 years...", but Hot Record Society. And after 1938, no dates.
>> >
>> > And the other does not have the information either, for IRCC.
>> >
>> > So it's back to legwork, as Steve says.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> >
>> > George
>> >
>> >
>> >> what about this?
>> >> http://www.78discography.com/HRS.htm
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >> http://www.78discography.com/IRCC.htm
>> >>
>> >> useful at all?
>> >>
>> >> -- Tom Fine
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Steven Smolian" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:36 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > The IRCC and HRS reissues were reviewed as they came out in the
>> Americna
>> >> > Record Guide.  Aida Favia-Artsy reviewed many and discussed their
>> origins
>> >> in
>> >> > various issued of Hobbies Magazine.  ARG was indexewd in "Music
>> Index"
>> >> but
>> >> > not the individual reviews, as I recall.  Hobbies wasn't.
>> >> >
>> >> > These labels also sent new release announcements to subscribers and
>> >> > libraries.
>> >> >
>> >> > The info is out there but requires lots of digging.  And the dates
of
>> >> the
>> >> > dubbed items on the labels are notoriously unreliable.
>> >> >
>> >> > Steve Smolian
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> >> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of George
>> Brock-Nannestad
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 3:34 AM
>> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >> >
>> >> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > looking at what is available via GoogleBooks, it seems that this
book
>> >> has
>> >> > one big "failing". It seems that it does not list the dates of the
>> >> reissues,
>> >> > only of the original recordings. If someone knows that there is an
>> index
>> >> for
>> >> > precisely this (a sort of chronological "discography" of special
>> >> pressings),
>> >> > then I am merely ignorant and would like to be informed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > George
>> >> >
>> >> > -------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hey, Tim,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't know of any.  Many of the dubs on IRCC and HRS are from
hill
>> >> >> and dale discs and from cylinders.  I don't recall if Gerard &
>> Barnes
>> >> >> list the later dubs, but many will self-identify from plowing
throgh
>> >> >> that book, side by IRCC side.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Steve Smolian
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> >> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hawthorn's Antique
>> >> >> Audio
>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:21 PM
>> >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> >> Subject: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Everyone,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Does anyone know of a readily available reference that will list
the
>> >> >> source recordings for the many IRCC, HRS and similar reissues?
>> >> >> "Seventy Years of Issues" by Tom Peel covers the records pressed
>> from
>> >> >> original metal parts, but not the dubbings, and some of those are
>> the
>> >> >> ones I'm trying to identify.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tom Hawthorn
>> >> >> Hawthorn's Antique Audio
>> >> >> www.thoseoldrecords.com
>> >> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >> >
>> >
>