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Well, according to Fred Gaisberg -- thank you Michael Shoshani, for copying
that quote -- the "imitation hard rubber" would have been a shellac
compound, and those are the Berliners I have seen, admittedly not very
many. I guess this would be the introduction of shellac into the
manufacture of flat disc records. If so, it was a good idea that lasted
close to 65 years.

And thanks all, for the info on rubber records. Has anyone here ever played
one?

Dave Lewis
Lebanon, OH

On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Paul Charosh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The discs I own recorded in 1895 are very well recorded.  Played on  modern
> equipment, the voices are loud and clear.  But when were they  pressed, and
> on what material?  Some tend to be a bit thicker than later  discs.  Are
> they "hard rubber" or "imitation hard rubber"?  I have no  idea.
>
> Paul Charosh
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2012 8:26:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> From:  Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Emile Berliner  in testimony for a court case in England between the
> Gramophone Co. and  Nicole Record Co. wrote the following in a letter of
> information to the  British attorneys on 18 June 1903 (p. 2):
>
> ............................  In 1894 hard rubber records pressed
> under heat and cooling were sold by  the United States
> Gramophone Company of Washington D.C. and in 1895 the
> Berliner Gramophone Company of Philadelphia, likewise sold
> hard rubber  gramophone records in large quantities.
> It was found that the pressing of  perfect records in hard
> rubber was attended with considerable difficulty,  and upon
> enquiry I was referred to the Duranoid Manufacturing Co.
> of  Newark, N.J. who were making articles of commerce in
> immitation [sic] of  hard rubber, the composition of which nor
> the procedure of making it, or  pressing it, were unknown
> to me.     I started negotiations  with them for the Berliner
> Gramophone Company of Philadelphia, and the  Duranoid Co.
> agreed to furnish us copies in their hard rubber substitute
> if we would give them the matrices, but they did not
> divulge to the  Berliner Gramophone Company nor to me, nor
> to anyone connected with us,  how they made such imitation
> hard rubber sound records.      Since the Duranoid Company
> had no difficulty in furhishing us with any  number of
> perfect copies, we decided to give up the hard rubber and use
> only records similar in every respect in general appearance
> to hard  rubber, except that the Duranoid Company told us
> that could furnish  records in any color desired.
> .......................
>
> So, Gelatt was  right, as he generally was. The only problem with his book
> is
> that it does  not give any sources for his correct information.
>
> Kind  regards,
>
>
> George
>
>
> > The rubber disc story comes from  Gelatt. I have never seen one, and have
> > never known anyone to  encounter one, but that doesn't mean they might
> not
> > have existed. I  think that if you found one, it may not be playable by
> > conventional  methods no matter how hard it might have been originally
> > because very  old rubber tends to dry out and split.
> >
> > And I have no  confidence in rubber as a viable playing surface.
> >
> > Dave  Lewis
> > Lebanon, OH
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 6:41 PM,  [log in to unmask] <
> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Berliner did use hard rubber for a little while, in the early  days,
> did
> > I
> > > read that or did I make that up?
> >  >
> > > Perhaps a rubber disc would have sounded this quiet?
> >  >
> > > Has anyone ever heard a straight transfer of a hard rubber  disc?
> > >
> > > joe salerno
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > > On 4/21/2012 4:56 PM, George Brock-Nannestad wrote:
> >  >
> > >> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >  >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Alas, we shall  probably never know, for in the noise lies the
> > >>  authentication.
> > >>
> > >> And that is the true reason  why we must conserve the originals: all
> > other
> > >>  authenticity relies on a certificate appended to any digital copy
> made.
> > >> But
> > >> that is a mere witness statement.  The scientific approach to revisit
> > >> samples
> > >>  will have been made impossible without the originals.
> > >>
> >  >> Best wishes,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  George
> > >>
> > >>  ------------------------------**--------
> > >>
> >  >>
> > >>  Very quiet surface. IS it safe to assume that  this was filtered, or
> > did
> > >>> these early records  sound this good?
> > >>>
> > >>> joe salerno
> >  >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 4/21/2012 8:24 AM,  Milan P Milovanovic wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> How  about 1890s Berliner 5 inch record #532, La rondinella.
> >  >>>>
> > >>>>
> >
> http://www.archeophone.org/**Berliner5inch/berliner-532.php<
> http://www.arche
> >  ophone.org/Berliner5inch/berliner-532.php>
> > >>>>
> >  >>>> Almost as recorded through mic...
> >  >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> >  >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:  "[log in to unmask]"
> > >>>>  <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>>>  To:<[log in to unmask]>
> > >>>> Sent: Friday,  April 20, 2012 6:26 AM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Hi Fi  Brownwax
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> >  >>>>  Rather astounding. It must have really sounded great  thru
> eartubes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> joe  salerno
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >  >>>>> On 4/19/2012 10:56 PM, David Lewis wrote:
> >  >>>>>
> > >>>>>> This was posted via  Jerry Fabris on YouTube. The audio quality of
> > >>>>>>  this 1899
> > >>>>>> cylinder is stunning:
> >  >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=g0yWY_RXW6A&feature=related<
> http://www.yout
> >  ube.com/watch?v=g0yWY_RXW6A&feature=related>
> >  >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dave Lewis
> >  >>>>>> Lebanon, OH
> > >>>>>>
> >  >>>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> >  >>>>> Joe Salerno
> > >>>>>
> >  >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> --
> >  >>> Joe Salerno
> > >>>
> > >>
> >  >>
> > > --
> > > Joe Salerno
> >  >
>