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Hi Peter:

Regarding your last comment, about editing 35mm for classical music ...

I am pretty sure that Everest used a standard Moviola editor for their 35mm. However, I think they 
prefered not to do note- or even few-measure inserts. So I don't think they were doing a lot of 
nit-picky splices. I might be wrong on that.

When Mercury decided to undertake 35mm classical recording, Harold Lawrence wanted an editing setup 
similar to what he was used to for tape. So my father and Bob Eberenz built him a modified Ampex 300 
transport with 35mm guides probably kludged off a spare dubber and a spare 3-track play head, I 
think it might have been custom made by John French's father or Tony Preto out in Illinois. The head 
was custom mounted so it worked on a 300 form-factor (this isn't trivial work but not impossible 
with access to a machine shop). I would guess they made sure the head was the proper impedence to 
interface with Harold's 300-3 electronics. Unfortunately, not photos exist.

Mercury, too, was not prone to make tiny-length inserts, so Harold told me that he didn't have too 
many problems with reverb tails or the like. He used a standard 35mm splicing block, although I 
suspect there was some facility to cut on an angle through several sprockets so you don't get bumps 
and ticks at splices. In any case, to my ears, the splices on the Everest, Mercury and Command 35mm 
recordings aren't any more or less obvious than well-done 3-track tape splices. I don't know the 
details of Command's 35mm editing rig, but they certainly edited enough 35mm masters over the years.

The larger issue with classical recording is the need for a minimum length per reel. I think the 
35mm portable units in stock configuration maxed out at 15 minutes or so per reel. Fine Recording 
eventually modified the Westrex machines with new reel motors mounted in a "penthouse" box above the 
original case, to accomodate up to 30 minutes recording time. This was mainly to allow for edited LP 
side-length masters to be cut to disk. The modified machines were definitely in use in the late 
Command Classics years, but I think Mercury was done with 35mm by the time the machines got 
modified.

The logistics of 35mm mag-film were more cumbersome vs. tape, but that wasn't what killed off the 
fad. Cost was the main killer, the economics of mag-film don't work in music-album recording but do 
work in higher-margin Hollywood. Also contributing were improved tape formulations and tape 
recorders in the early and mid 60's.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mew, Peter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] EMI, opera and 35mm?


> Hi
> 35mm in this context looks the same as film, with sprockets etc, but is coated with oxide rather 
> than photographic emulsion.
> It is also known as "Mag Film" and is a universal standard.
> A 35mm magnetic film recorder looks nothing like an audio Tape Machine, but serves the same 
> function.
> It looks more like a Film projector
> Up until the 90s most film scores were recorded on mag film, the sprockets keeping the audio in 
> sync with the projected film. There would be 1 reel of Mag film to 1 reel of Film.
> This allowed the film editor to edit the sound and picture at the same time.
> The audio might eventually end up as optical track on the film reels
> I think it would be a devil of a job to edit classical music using a sprocketed medium
> HTH
> -pm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf 
> Of Roderic G Stephens
> Sent: Tue 24 Apr 2012 21:50
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] EMI, opera and 35mm?
>
> Ironically, 35 & 16mm films are the few exceptions to the rule of international differences in 
> standards. It was established in 1909 according to this: 
> http://www.ehow.com/about_6635136_16mm-vs_-35mm-film.html
>
> --- On Tue, 4/24/12, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] EMI, opera and 35mm?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 1:36 PM
>
> I thought 35mm was a US thing, like the command and mercury.
> Shai
>
>
> בתאריך 24/04/12 4:35 PM, ציטוט Tom Fine:
>> Hi Ted:
>>
>> But 35 millimeters = 1.37795276 inches.
>>
>> So either the reporter completely confused what he was seeing (or hearing) or there was 35mm film 
>> in use.
>>
>> Are there any Abbey Road veterans from that time on the list?
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kendall"
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] EMI, opera and 35mm?
>>
>>
>>> On 24/04/2012 14:47, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>> So they don't mean sprocketed magnetic film?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kendall"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:40 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] EMI, opera and 35mm?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/04/2012 13:27, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>>>> I came across this blurb in May 1968 High Fidelity:
>>>>>> http://www.yousendit.com/download/M3Brc2ZPK3g3bUJEZU1UQw?cid=tx-02
>>>>>> 002207340200000000&s=19102 (paste full link into browser if it's
>>>>>> split by e-mail)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The part from London, about Klemperer recording Wagner for EMI, starts at the bottom of the 
>>>>>> first page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the top of the second page, the piece reports that "35-mm tape (is used) when separate 
>>>>>> systems were being used for voices and instruments."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there any EMI veterans on this list who can tell me more about this technique? How long 
>>>>>> was it used? Aside from the Klemperer Wagner opera recording, what other records were made 
>>>>>> using this technique? Was it ever detailed or used as a marketing hook in EMI advertising or 
>>>>>> album-notes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, do any EMI veterans have photos of the setup, showing the 35mm equipment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>> I'm pretty certain this would be one inch tape on Studer J37s, of which Abbey Road had several 
>>>>> at the time, although there was a similar Telefunken machine as well. Four tracks gave one 
>>>>> pair for voices and one for orchestra.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not as far as I know - I have not come across any other suggestion that this was used there, and 
>>> the technical climate was quite conservative at the time.
>>>
>>
>
> -- בברכה,
> שי דרורי
> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
>
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