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I agree with you 100%, Steve, whenever I am mastering a recording of Beethoven's 3rd or 7th, I always make the last movements come in attaca.  Another place where an attaca last movement is very effective but almost never allowed in the concert hall because of applause is the Tchaikovsky "Pathetique".  One more place where I want a last movement attaca without missing a beat is in Mendelssohn's Octet.

db



>________________________________
> From: Steve Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask] 
>Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:37:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause
> 
>Applause between movements.  The way I listen, I find it infuriating to have my concentration broken.  It drives me nuts during Bruckner symphonies, for example.  Sorry.
>
>Applause between movements was common during WW II when servicemen were often given tickets and were hearing their first classical concert.  Not knowing the style of music, they believed the silence meant the piece was over.
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>The space between movements can be meant as a resting place for the orchestra to retune or otherwise adjust itself.  Surely the pause between the 1st & 2d mvts of the Mahler 4th Symphony is one such, as the first fiddle has to switch instruments to one with a different tuning.  In other places, however, the rhythmic propulsion generated by the end of the prior movement forces the one following to begin at precise moment thereafter- I contend the end of the scherzos of the Beethoven 3rd and 7th are perfect examples.  Feel the unnotated beats. Attaca! Attaca!
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>Every so often I run across a tape of a performance where this happens. Invariably, it adds a layer of excitement.
>
>Steve Smolian
>
>
>-----Original Message----- From: ahamilton
>Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:54 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause
>
>My father said he once saw a 6-disc set of  78s of a public pre-War Hitler
>speech.    Shouting in German for 11 sides, but on the last B-side was
>nothing but thunderous applause.   ):
>
>On a similar note, when in college, my father and one of his roommates used
>a disc recorder to make a lock-out groove recording (I suppose at 16 rpm?)
>for the amusement of their third, O'Leary, who would walk in later to hear
>the disc repeating their recording every 3.6 seconds(?), "O'Leary eats dung
>raw, through a flavor straw, Haw, Haw!"
>
>
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>
>Andrew
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on YouTube
>
>
>> Hi Carl:
>> 
>> I think audiences today in the US are more "polite" (some would say "restained" or "detached") than
>> times past. I have some old recordings of concerts at Carnegie Hall and other venues, mostly
>> transcriptions of broadcasts, and you hear constant coughing and shuffling, and often applause
>> between movements. Orchestras seemed to pause more between movements back then, expecting applause.
>> I wonder if the LP era and classical's "golden age" of recordings got audiences used to shorter
>> pauses between movements, and some sort of cultural change caused a group-think that classical music
>> must be reverently enjoyed in silence. I remember being discouraged from reading program notes while
>> the orchestra played during a school trip, as if I can't listen when I'm reading. Meanwhile, how
>> long can a kid pay rapt attention to men and women in black suits moving bows across strings?
>> 
>> In today's multi-media age, I wonder why more orchestras don't at least explore, if not adopt, the
>> concept of accompanying classical music to light shows and/or other visual events. Is it somehow
>> "mind pollution" for another artist to suggest what colors and/or images may accompany the music?
>> What if anyone with a wifi device in the hall could create their own visual entertainment, triggered
>> by the ambient audio and/or some sort of sync to the score, on their iPads and cellphones (with the
>> damn ringers turned off, of course - perhaps the app could do that automatically when it's
>> launched!). I think it would make the genre more mainstream, boost appreciation for the idea that
>> music can be deep and complex and subtle (as opposed to stereotypically simple and silly, like most
>> pop hits). Don't forget that Scriabin wrote detailed notes on light shows to accompany his solo
>> piano music, and Hilde Somer re-created some of that entertainment in the 60's. Also, I would
>> suggest that Virgil Fox's tour of rock venues with the massive Rodgers Organ and accompanying
>> psychodellic light show, exposed more people to the music of Bach than all of the symphony concerts
>> in the world occuring in the same time frame.
>> 
>> Here are two of Virgil Fox's "Heavy Organ" concerts:
>> http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/virgil-fox/
>> (registration required, lossy streaming audio, but you'll get the idea)
>> 
>> Bottom line, who cares if people applaud between movements? Take the stuffiness out of the concert
>> hall and the music will live on in "the masses."
>> 
>> One caveat to my populism -- notice I don't advocate dilluting classical music with silly
>> "crossover" dreck. It should remain a highly skilled affair, with close contact to the heritage of
>> the art, and the worst thing to do is think that poptart "singers" or whatever else is popular at
>> the moment has any place mixing in with Beethoven. And idiotic "theme" albums like "Bach for the
>> Bathroom" or whatever just make the music seem dumb and boring. These are marketing ploys created by
>> small minds, not artistic expansion of a music form into the modern arena of mixed-media arts.
>> 
>> -- Tom Fine
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pultz" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on YouTube
>> 
>> 
>>> Applause after 1st mvmnt!
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shai Drori
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:21 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on YouTube
>>> 
>>> A really nice performance. Listening in bed for the night.
>>> Shai
>>> 
>>> Sent from my ringing donkey
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> There is  this outstanding performance of the Beethoven Violin Concerto I
>>> have just discovered.
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epkviHdNMww
>>>> 
>>>> It's by Zino Francescatti,and The New York Philharmonic,under Dimitri
>>> Mitropoulos.It is obviously a concert recording.Can anybody
>>>> tell me when it was done,and if it was ever issued?
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>> 
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