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That's precisely what I think would ruin Jerry Lewis' first scene appearance in the stage version of "Damn Yankees," when he played the devil. Cary Ginell > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:48:35 -0700 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause > To: [log in to unmask] > > I was taught -- actually taught! -- to not applaud movies unless there > were people there involved in making the movie. But if you look at the > early Vitaphone shorts which had to be filmed continuously without > breaks or edits, the performers pause and occasionally bow in > expectation of the applause in the theatre. I suppose if it is a > Vitaphone Project screening with Ron Hutchinson there that maybe > applause is appropriate! > > The applause I HATE is when a performer in a play makes their first > appearance on the stage. I recently saw the closing Broadway > performance of "Anything Goes" and EACH performer's clique loudly > cheered when they appeared, continuously breaking the rhythm of the > performance. > > Mike Biel [log in to unmask] > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause > From: Donald Tait <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Thu, August 16, 2012 2:55 pm > To: [log in to unmask] > > The debate about whether to have applause or not between movements in > the concert hall has been going on since at least the 1920s. Wilhelm > Furtwaengler had two very successful lengthy guest engagements with the > New York Philharmonic during two seasons in the mid-20s, and there were > isolated complaints because he did not want applause between movements. > In relatively more recent times, Erich Leinsdorf was vocal about > approving of and even encouraging applause between movements. I remember > a Boston Symphony tour concert in Chicago during the 1960s when there > was a little applause after a movement of Brahms's 3rd Symphony. > Leinsdorf turned around on the podium, grinned, and bowed. With which > encouragement the applause increased. > > I think one's reaction to such applause is purely personal. For myself, > I entirely agree with Steve. I find it an interruption. It's fine that > people approve of what the artists have done, but if some in the > audience would prefer to consider what they've experienced in silence, > such as I, they cannot. There is also the concept of a musical and > emotional totality. Steve's example of Bruckner is perfect as far as I > am concerned. > > In another message, Carl Pultz mentioned how Mahler drew protests when > he insisted that the Vienna Opera be darkened during performances to put > an end to audiences' treating them as opportunities to socialize during > the opera. Toscanini did the same thing, for the same reason(s), in > Italy during the 1890s. It had never been done there, evidently. Like > Mahler, Toscanini provoked howls of outrage. And since their time opera > houses go dark. > > I also agree with everyone about attaca between movements. The timing > can make a huge difference in the work's final impression. And with > regard to Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony third and fourth movements, > may I risk telling a famous anecdote in case someone hasn't heard it > yet? For those who have, apologies for the repetition. It could well > even be true. > > Supposedly, at a Boston Symphony concert at Tanglewood, Pierre Monteux > conducted Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. As usual, there was a storm of > applause after the third movement. They finished the symphony. The story > is that as two women were walking out of the Shed after the concert, one > asked the other "what was that sad piece they played after the > symphony?" > > I remember that Jascha Horenstein's late 1960s HMV LP of the Pathetique > has the last movement attaca. Barely a second or so between the > movements on the LP and no separating band between them. There might > also have been a comment in the liner notes that Horenstein had insisted > upon that because he felt strongly about the movements being an > emotional entity that should not be separated by applause. > > In any case, the applause issue is a major point of discussion that's > been around for many decades. It seems to have intensified a bit > recently. It's very interesting. > > Don Tait > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Smolian <[log in to unmask]> > To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:27 am > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause > > > Applause between movements. The way I listen, I find it infuriating to > have > my concentration broken. It drives me nuts during Bruckner symphonies, > for > example. Sorry. > > Applause between movements was common during WW II when servicemen were > often given tickets and were hearing their first classical concert. Not > knowing the style of music, they believed the silence meant the piece > was > over. > > The space between movements can be meant as a resting place for the > orchestra to retune or otherwise adjust itself. Surely the pause between > > the 1st & 2d mvts of the Mahler 4th Symphony is one such, as the first > fiddle has to switch instruments to one with a different tuning. In > other > places, however, the rhythmic propulsion generated by the end of the > prior > movement forces the one following to begin at precise moment thereafter- > I > contend the end of the scherzos of the Beethoven 3rd and 7th are perfect > > examples. Feel the unnotated beats. Attaca! Attaca! > > Every so often I run across a tape of a performance where this happens. > Invariably, it adds a layer of excitement. > > Steve Smolian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ahamilton > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:54 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Re: Applause > > My father said he once saw a 6-disc set of 78s of a public pre-War > Hitler > speech. Shouting in German for 11 sides, but on the last B-side was > nothing but thunderous applause. ): > > On a similar note, when in college, my father and one of his roommates > used > a disc recorder to make a lock-out groove recording (I suppose at 16 > rpm?) > for the amusement of their third, O'Leary, who would walk in later to > hear > the disc repeating their recording every 3.6 seconds(?), "O'Leary eats > dung > raw, through a flavor straw, Haw, Haw!" > > > > > Andrew > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:40 AM > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on > YouTube > > > > Hi Carl: > > > > I think audiences today in the US are more "polite" (some would say > > "restained" or "detached") than > > times past. I have some old recordings of concerts at Carnegie Hall and > > other venues, mostly > > transcriptions of broadcasts, and you hear constant coughing and > > shuffling, and often applause > > between movements. Orchestras seemed to pause more between movements back > > then, expecting applause. > > I wonder if the LP era and classical's "golden age" of recordings got > > audiences used to shorter > > pauses between movements, and some sort of cultural change caused a > > group-think that classical music > > must be reverently enjoyed in silence. I remember being discouraged from > > reading program notes while > > the orchestra played during a school trip, as if I can't listen when I'm > > reading. Meanwhile, how > > long can a kid pay rapt attention to men and women in black suits moving > > bows across strings? > > > > In today's multi-media age, I wonder why more orchestras don't at least > > explore, if not adopt, the > > concept of accompanying classical music to light shows and/or other visual > > events. Is it somehow > > "mind pollution" for another artist to suggest what colors and/or images > > may accompany the music? > > What if anyone with a wifi device in the hall could create their own > > visual entertainment, triggered > > by the ambient audio and/or some sort of sync to the score, on their iPads > > and cellphones (with the > > damn ringers turned off, of course - perhaps the app could do that > > automatically when it's > > launched!). I think it would make the genre more mainstream, boost > > appreciation for the idea that > > music can be deep and complex and subtle (as opposed to stereotypically > > simple and silly, like most > > pop hits). Don't forget that Scriabin wrote detailed notes on light shows > > to accompany his solo > > piano music, and Hilde Somer re-created some of that entertainment in the > > 60's. Also, I would > > suggest that Virgil Fox's tour of rock venues with the massive Rodgers > > Organ and accompanying > > psychodellic light show, exposed more people to the music of Bach than all > > of the symphony concerts > > in the world occuring in the same time frame. > > > > Here are two of Virgil Fox's "Heavy Organ" concerts: > > http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/virgil-fox/ > > (registration required, lossy streaming audio, but you'll get the idea) > > > > Bottom line, who cares if people applaud between movements? Take the > > stuffiness out of the concert > > hall and the music will live on in "the masses." > > > > One caveat to my populism -- notice I don't advocate dilluting classical > > music with silly > > "crossover" dreck. It should remain a highly skilled affair, with close > > contact to the heritage of > > the art, and the worst thing to do is think that poptart "singers" or > > whatever else is popular at > > the moment has any place mixing in with Beethoven. And idiotic "theme" > > albums like "Bach for the > > Bathroom" or whatever just make the music seem dumb and boring. These are > > marketing ploys created by > > small minds, not artistic expansion of a music form into the modern arena > > of mixed-media arts. > > > > -- Tom Fine > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Pultz" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:00 AM > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on > > YouTube > > > > > >> Applause after 1st mvmnt! > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shai Drori > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 5:21 PM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] FW: [ARSCLIST] Beethoven Violin Concerto on > >> YouTube > >> > >> A really nice performance. Listening in bed for the night. > >> Shai > >> > >> Sent from my ringing donkey > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> There is this outstanding performance of the Beethoven Violin Concerto > >>> I > >> have just discovered. > >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epkviHdNMww > >>> > >>> It's by Zino Francescatti,and The New York Philharmonic,under Dimitri > >> Mitropoulos.It is obviously a concert recording.Can anybody > >>> tell me when it was done,and if it was ever issued? > >>> > >>> Roger > >>