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Dear all, I want to thank everyone for taking the time to contribute your suggestions for finding the WOR radio doc on New York's Subways. I may still have an uphill battle, but now I have some really strong leads. I really appreciate all the help. Best, Nellie On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Randy A. Riddle <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > ... And don't forget that some "unpublished" radio broadcasts were > copyrighted by depositing the script at the LOC and copyrighting that. > > I've run into syndicated, network and even local shows that were > handled that way. > > rand > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Sam Brylawski <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > While we're at this, know that the situation for WOR and other > > broadcasting recordings is worse than you might imagine. U.S. law > > considers broadcasts "unpublished." The exception to this is if they > > were syndicated, i.e., distributed as transcriptions as opposed to > > over the air. Of course this is hypothetical in WOR's case as no > > pre-1972 recordings are covered by federal law. But if they were > > protected under federal law the term would be 120 years from the date > > of creation. > > > > Good news/bad news: As I recall, when LC received the WOR collection > > from GenCorp, in the Instrument of Gift GenCorp relinquished its own > > rights to them. But at the same time, they attached strings to that. I > > forget exactly what or how. But I think that they were saying, we're > > generously donating rights, but that doesn't cover the rights of the > > actors, musicians, writers, other union members, etc. WOR's original > > contracts with those parties probably stated that they were being > > compensated for their services *to a broadcast.* "After-market" was > > not anticipated or covered in those contracts. See the Peggy Lee-"Lady > > and the Tramp" lawsuit for an example of that issue. > > > > Best wishes to the younger people on this list, those who will live to > > 2067 and be able to enjoy and study things like the WOR collection > > legally. > > > > Sam Brylawski > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> Hi James: > >> > >> I hear you loud and clear. I don't blame the LOC for the screwy > copyright > >> laws, and indeed many LOC employees are members of ARSC, which is > actively > >> lobbying to loosen the laws so citizens may have more widely-available > >> access to the LOC's contents. > >> > >> I think you hear my frustrations clearly, as I hear yours. > >> > >> > >> -- Tom Fine > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:52 AM > >> > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary > >> > >> > >> Tom, > >> > >> For better and for worse, copyright is not contingent on monetary > value, nor > >> upon the specific conditions of a work's creation. > >> > >> Like most everyone else in the archiving community, I agree that US > >> copyright terms are ludicrous, especially on sound recordings - so I > share > >> your frustration. But I also have to sympathize with the LOC as an > >> institution. As the administrator of copyright, it is completely bound > to > >> follow the law. I've commented before that its copyright functions put > it at > >> cross-purposes with its role as the nation's library. But until Congress > >> splits off copyright and grants special dispensation to skirt the law, > this > >> is how things will be. > >> > >> James > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine > >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:06 AM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary > >> > >> Well hopefully the BBC will put it online. I can't imagine it has one > penny > >> of monetary value, so this whole discussion of ownership and rights is > >> ridiculous, it should be out in the public domain already (note that it > >> would be in the UK). Plus, it wouldn't have been possible without > access to > >> the publicly-funded NYC subway system, which I believe operated at that > time > >> (and operates to this > >> day) with a heavy subsidy from federal taxes, hence partial ownership > by > >> every U.S. citizen. > >> > >> Yet another case of something the preservation and maintenance of which > is > >> funded by those who can't get any access to it (unless they live local > to > >> Washington DC and can take the time to wade through the LOC access > rules and > >> listen to it in person, which may well cost them extra money). Very > >> frustrating! > >> > >> -- Tom Fine > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:53 AM > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary > >> > >> > >> LOC could not post this online without permission from rightsholders. > The > >> same would be necessary to > >> obtain a private copy from LC. So that would be BBC, whoever now owns > the > >> rights to WOR, and > >> possibly the heirs of Dick Willard. > >> > >> James > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Personal opinions only. Not a statement of official LC policy, etc. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > >> Tom Fine > >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:43 AM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary > >> > >> How does one get a copy of this recording? Can LOC post it online? > >> > >> -- Tom Fine > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:13 AM > >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary > >> > >> > >>> A copy exists at the Library of Congress. See: > >>> http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082 > >>> > >>> Thom Pease > >>> Library of Congress > >>> > >>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Chris J Brady <[log in to unmask]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Have you tried > >>>> > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Television_%26_Radio > >>>> > >>>> CJB > >>>> > >>> LC control no.: 2002660082 > >>> LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082 > >>> Type of material: Nonmusic Sound Recording > >>> Main title: New York subways [sound recording]. > >>> Published/Created: 1948. > >>> Description: 2 sound discs : analog, 33 1/3 rpm ; 16 in. > >>> Related names Willard, Dick. > >>> WOR (Radio station : New York, N.Y.) > >>> British Broadcasting Corporation. > >>> Performer: WOR reporters: Dick Willard ... [et al.] > >>> Credits: Presented by radio station WOR in cooperation with the BBC. > >>> Summary: A radio documentary that examines the New York City subway > >>> system. WOR reporters talk to various employees of the subway system > >>> including a dispatcher, brakeman, signal maintenance man, staff member > >>> of the lost and found, and a police officer. Includes a discussion of > >>> the engineering system and its costs. Closes with an interview with a > >>> nineteen-year-old female passenger, who was named Miss Subway of the > >>> Month. > >>> Subjects: Subways --New York (State) --New York. > >>> Local transit --New York (State) --New York. > >>> Form/Genre: Documentary radio programs. > >>> Notes: Recorded Jan. 28, 1948, by WOR, New York, for broadcast in > >>> Great Britain. > >>> Additional formats: Preservation master. Washington, D.C. : Library > >>> of Congress Magnetic Recording Laboratory, 1968. On 1 sound tape reel > >>> : analog, 7 1/2 ips, 2 track, mono. ; 10 in. > >>> LC classification: LWO 5520 r12A1-3 (preservation master) > >>> CALL NUMBER: LWO 5520 r12 (preservation master) > >>> -- Request in: Request in advance in Rec Sound Ref Center (Madison, > LM113) > >>> -- Status: Not Charged > >>> > >> >