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EMI did reissue the Toch, in their "Matrix" series in the 90s. No one paid attention to those: http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Mathis-Der-Maler/dp/B00000DCLA/ref=cm_lmf_tit_23 UD On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > Those are the Capitol recordings, made before the Command contract. > Capitol recorded in the Syria Mosque. They didn't do badly for early-era > stereo. Frank Abbey and Irv Joel did most of the engineering for > Pittsburgh. One really good recording they did early in the stereo era was > the Toch 3rd Symphony. I don't know why EMI never reissued it on CD, but > the 2-track duped tape is pricey to say the least. > > People sometimes don't associate Capitol and its engineering staff with > classical recording, but they always had at least one foot in the business > in the LP era. Steinberg/Pittsburgh and Stokowski/Houston recorded on the > Capitol label. Capitol also did "sound spectacular" light-classical records > in Hollywood with Erich Leinsdorf and Leonard Slatkin. > > By the late 60's, Capitol seemed to be acting more as the US agent of EMI, > but note that Dick Jones was still overseeing those sessions even when > Peter Andry was over here from England. Carson Taylor and his recording > staff were working out of Capitol Tower, not England. And, Taylor seemed to > have had free reign to record things his way, which was different from how > EMI was working in England as far as I can tell. By the late 60's, I think > EMI in England was using a larger number of mics and I'm not sure how many > tracks they were recording to in a typical session. Also, I'm almost > positive they weren't using the 3M Dynatrack system like Taylor was. Taylor > typically brought along 4-track (8-electronics) 3M machines, but he later > wrote that many recordings were to 2-track with a couple of spot mics or > room mics doubled to the other tracks so the producer had some leeway about > balance and ambiance when they cut a 2-track Dolby LP master back at the > studio. Soloists, of course, got their own tracks. In the case of the Du > Pre recording at Medinah, Taylor used a Neumann coincident stereo mic in > front of Du Pre, likely sent to its own 2 tracks. The orchestra would then > have been mixed to the other 2 tracks. Typical Taylor setup was a stereo > mic up high and behind the conductor, a stereo mic over the middle of the > orchestra, and a few spot mics on the sides. All Neumann and AKG condenser > mics. > > I'm not sure what happened after the early 70's with Capitol and EMI > regarding US classical recording. Carson Taylor retired in the mid-70's and > I don't think anyone replaced him engineering for Capitol/Angel. > > I think the last of the last US labels recording US orchestras was Telarc. > > -- Tom Fine > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderic G Stephens" < > [log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Medinah Temple > > > Don, >> A series of EMI releases of the Pittsburg/Steinberg recordings are >> available at ArkivMusic:http://www.**arkivmusic.com/classical/** >> Search?cx=**011477110254701862377%**3Abwrykxfy_di&cof=FORID%3A10&** >> ie=UTF-8&google_search=1&**searchingPage=ABC456&** >> searching=1&role_wanted=-1&q=**steinberg+pittsburgh+so<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Search?cx=011477110254701862377%3Abwrykxfy_di&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&google_search=1&searchingPage=ABC456&searching=1&role_wanted=-1&q=steinberg+pittsburgh+so> >> >> --- On Mon, 11/5/12, Don Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> From: Don Cox <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Medinah Temple >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Date: Monday, November 5, 2012, 11:59 AM >> >> On 05/11/2012, Tom Fine wrote: >> >> The whole issue with finding a suitable recording venue in Chicago, >>> after Orchestra Hall was ruined, shows that logistics and local >>> politics matter as much or more than acoustics and engineering >>> preferences. It's interesting that, given how acclaimed RCA's Chicago >>> recordings from the 50's and early 60's were, that the orchestra board >>> could be convinced to butcher the acoustic space so much. To some >>> classical music fans, those RCA records were the ultimate examples of >>> the recording art with an American orchestra in an American venue. >>> >>> Mercury had similar problems in Detroit and Minneapolis, as much >>> politics and logistics as acoustical and engineering decisions. >>> >>> Likewise Kingsway Hall, the best recording space in London for >> orchestral music. It was demolished in 1984. >> >> In Detroit, the Edsel Ford Auditorium was built by and named after the >>> Ford family, which was a primary or the primary sponsor of the Detroit >>> Symphony. From the first time my father set foot in that room, he >>> hated it acoustically. In the mono days, there were tricks that could >>> deployed to make the single-mic technique work, but when stereo >>> recording started, that venue became almost impossible (although there >>> were a few stereo recordings made in the Ford auditorium in the early >>> days of stereo). Old Orchestra Hall, known as the Paradise Theatre in >>> those days, was a better space, but it was literally falling apart and >>> was not in a good part of town. However, many Mercury sessions were >>> done there, leaky roof and all. The room has a nice sound to it, >>> although my father thought it sounded smaller than it was. Then, via >>> several sources, word trickled down about the superb auditorium in >>> Cass Technical High School. It ended up being an almost ideal >>> recording venue. The auditorium was in the middle of the huge >>> building, so it was well isolated. There were good and comfortable >>> control-room facilities in the school. And the sound was superb. It's >>> unfortunate that Cass was discovered rather late in the Mercury >>> relationship with Paul Paray and Detroit. But, all or almost all of >>> the 35mm magnetic-film recordings done in Detroit were done at Cass, >>> to the benefit of the sound quality. >>> >>> In Minneapolis, the Northrop Auditorium was also non-ideal. It turned >>> out to be less ideal for single-mic mono than for stereo. The reason >>> was, it was so cavernous that sound got lost in the huge space. In the >>> mono days, various setups were used, mainly moving the strings out >>> onto the stage apron and, for a couple of sessions, using a tape-delay >>> reverb fed to a big Altec speaker in the rear of the auditorium so as >>> to make the room sound more live. What happened was that the sound >>> dissipated so much that the rear of the omni-directional mic barely >>> caught anything, so the recording sounded too dry. When the technique >>> changed to three spaced omnis, more reverb and room tone was captured, >>> so there was less of a problem. Switching to the Schoeps M201 mic for >>> the single-mic mono also helped a bit because it's more sensitive than >>> a Neumann U-47 and also has a different presence peak that tends to >>> pick up low-level high-frequency information better in that setup. >>> Very late in Mercury's relationship with the Minneapolis Symphony, the >>> auditorium at Edison High School, which I think was out in the >>> suburbs, was used. That room had a better sound, it was "warmer" and >>> more detailed. Like Cass, it's a pity it wasn't "discovered" earlier. >>> >>> A similar search for a good venue took place when Command signed the >>> Pittsburgh Symphony. My father and Enoch Light checked out the >>> orchestra's performance venue, didn't like that. They also didn't like >>> the Syria Mosque, where Capitol had made its Pittsburgh recordings. >>> They found the Soliders and Sailors Hall, which had the unique >>> property of the stage being out into the cavernous space, so the whole >>> room had similar reverberant properties. This worked well for the >>> 6-mic technique that they devised for Command Classics. The Pittsburgh >>> Symphony went on to deliver a very good Beethoven cycle, and a good >>> Brahms cycle, and some other interesting recordings. Alas, Command >>> Classics never sold well, according to later interviews with Enoch >>> Light and others. In the late 60's and early 70's, ABC/MCA kept >>> cheapening the packaging and eventually let Pickwick put out >>> supermarket-counter versions of some records. Later-era ABC re-cuts >>> and pressings are far inferior to original-issues. >>> >>> Were these Pittsburgh recordings ever issued on CD ? >> >> Regards >> -- >> Don Cox >> [log in to unmask] >> >>