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Thanks Dave!

Note that the low-priced "new" option is a legal CDR burned by ArkivMusic, which may or may not 
include booklet copy. There are several other "new" and "used" options at Amazon.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Medinah Temple


> EMI did reissue the Toch, in their "Matrix" series in the 90s. No one paid
> attention to those:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Mathis-Der-Maler/dp/B00000DCLA/ref=cm_lmf_tit_23
>
> UD
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Those are the Capitol recordings, made before the Command contract.
>> Capitol recorded in the Syria Mosque. They didn't do badly for early-era
>> stereo. Frank Abbey and Irv Joel did most of the engineering for
>> Pittsburgh. One really good recording they did early in the stereo era was
>> the Toch 3rd Symphony. I don't know why EMI never reissued it on CD, but
>> the 2-track duped tape is pricey to say the least.
>>
>> People sometimes don't associate Capitol and its engineering staff with
>> classical recording, but they always had at least one foot in the business
>> in the LP era. Steinberg/Pittsburgh and Stokowski/Houston recorded on the
>> Capitol label. Capitol also did "sound spectacular" light-classical records
>> in Hollywood with Erich Leinsdorf and Leonard Slatkin.
>>
>> By the late 60's, Capitol seemed to be acting more as the US agent of EMI,
>> but note that Dick Jones was still overseeing those sessions even when
>> Peter Andry was over here from England. Carson Taylor and his recording
>> staff were working out of Capitol Tower, not England. And, Taylor seemed to
>> have had free reign to record things his way, which was different from how
>> EMI was working in England as far as I can tell. By the late 60's, I think
>> EMI in England was using a larger number of mics and I'm not sure how many
>> tracks they were recording to in a typical session. Also, I'm almost
>> positive they weren't using the 3M Dynatrack system like Taylor was. Taylor
>> typically brought along 4-track (8-electronics) 3M machines, but he later
>> wrote that many recordings were to 2-track with a couple of spot mics or
>> room mics doubled to the other tracks so the producer had some leeway about
>> balance and ambiance when they cut a 2-track Dolby LP master back at the
>> studio. Soloists, of course, got their own tracks. In the case of the Du
>> Pre recording at Medinah, Taylor used a Neumann coincident stereo mic in
>> front of Du Pre, likely sent to its own 2 tracks. The orchestra would then
>> have been mixed to the other 2 tracks. Typical Taylor setup was a stereo
>> mic up high and behind the conductor, a stereo mic over the middle of the
>> orchestra, and a few spot mics on the sides. All Neumann and AKG condenser
>> mics.
>>
>> I'm not sure what happened after the early 70's with Capitol and EMI
>> regarding US classical recording. Carson Taylor retired in the mid-70's and
>> I don't think anyone replaced him engineering for Capitol/Angel.
>>
>> I think the last of the last US labels recording US orchestras was Telarc.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderic G Stephens" <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:48 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Medinah Temple
>>
>>
>>  Don,
>>> A series of EMI releases of the Pittsburg/Steinberg recordings are
>>> available at ArkivMusic:http://www.**arkivmusic.com/classical/**
>>> Search?cx=**011477110254701862377%**3Abwrykxfy_di&cof=FORID%3A10&**
>>> ie=UTF-8&google_search=1&**searchingPage=ABC456&**
>>> searching=1&role_wanted=-1&q=**steinberg+pittsburgh+so<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Search?cx=011477110254701862377%3Abwrykxfy_di&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&google_search=1&searchingPage=ABC456&searching=1&role_wanted=-1&q=steinberg+pittsburgh+so>
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 11/5/12, Don Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Don Cox <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Medinah Temple
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Monday, November 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
>>>
>>> On 05/11/2012, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>
>>>  The whole issue with finding a suitable recording venue in Chicago,
>>>> after Orchestra Hall was ruined, shows that logistics and local
>>>> politics matter as much or more than acoustics and engineering
>>>> preferences. It's interesting that, given how acclaimed RCA's Chicago
>>>> recordings from the 50's and early 60's were, that the orchestra board
>>>> could be convinced to butcher the acoustic space so much. To some
>>>> classical music fans, those RCA records were the ultimate examples of
>>>> the recording art with an American orchestra in an American venue.
>>>>
>>>> Mercury had similar problems in Detroit and Minneapolis, as much
>>>> politics and logistics as acoustical and engineering decisions.
>>>>
>>>>  Likewise Kingsway Hall, the best recording space in London for
>>> orchestral music. It was demolished in 1984.
>>>
>>>  In Detroit, the Edsel Ford Auditorium was built by and named after the
>>>> Ford family, which was a primary or the primary sponsor of the Detroit
>>>> Symphony. From the first time my father set foot in that room, he
>>>> hated it acoustically. In the mono days, there were tricks that could
>>>> deployed to make the single-mic technique work, but when stereo
>>>> recording started, that venue became almost impossible (although there
>>>> were a few stereo recordings made in the Ford auditorium in the early
>>>> days of stereo). Old Orchestra Hall, known as the Paradise Theatre in
>>>> those days, was a better space, but it was literally falling apart and
>>>> was not in a good part of town. However, many Mercury sessions were
>>>> done there, leaky roof and all. The room has a nice sound to it,
>>>> although my father thought it sounded smaller than it was. Then, via
>>>> several sources, word trickled down about the superb auditorium in
>>>> Cass Technical High School. It ended up being an almost ideal
>>>> recording venue. The auditorium was in the middle of the huge
>>>> building, so it was well isolated. There were good and comfortable
>>>> control-room facilities in the school. And the sound was superb. It's
>>>> unfortunate that Cass was discovered rather late in the Mercury
>>>> relationship with Paul Paray and Detroit. But, all or almost all of
>>>> the 35mm magnetic-film recordings done in Detroit were done at Cass,
>>>> to the benefit of the sound quality.
>>>>
>>>> In Minneapolis, the Northrop Auditorium was also non-ideal. It turned
>>>> out to be less ideal for single-mic mono than for stereo. The reason
>>>> was, it was so cavernous that sound got lost in the huge space. In the
>>>> mono days, various setups were used, mainly moving the strings out
>>>> onto the stage apron and, for a couple of sessions, using a tape-delay
>>>> reverb fed to a big Altec speaker in the rear of the auditorium so as
>>>> to make the room sound more live. What happened was that the sound
>>>> dissipated so much that the rear of the omni-directional mic barely
>>>> caught anything, so the recording sounded too dry. When the technique
>>>> changed to three spaced omnis, more reverb and room tone was captured,
>>>> so there was less of a problem. Switching to the Schoeps M201 mic for
>>>> the single-mic mono also helped a bit because it's more sensitive than
>>>> a Neumann U-47 and also has a different presence peak that tends to
>>>> pick up low-level high-frequency information better in that setup.
>>>> Very late in Mercury's relationship with the Minneapolis Symphony, the
>>>> auditorium at Edison High School, which I think was out in the
>>>> suburbs, was used. That room had a better sound, it was "warmer" and
>>>> more detailed. Like Cass, it's a pity it wasn't "discovered" earlier.
>>>>
>>>> A similar search for a good venue took place when Command signed the
>>>> Pittsburgh Symphony. My father and Enoch Light checked out the
>>>> orchestra's performance venue, didn't like that. They also didn't like
>>>> the Syria Mosque, where Capitol had made its Pittsburgh recordings.
>>>> They found the Soliders and Sailors Hall, which had the unique
>>>> property of the stage being out into the cavernous space, so the whole
>>>> room had similar reverberant properties. This worked well for the
>>>> 6-mic technique that they devised for Command Classics. The Pittsburgh
>>>> Symphony went on to deliver a very good Beethoven cycle, and a good
>>>> Brahms cycle, and some other interesting recordings. Alas, Command
>>>> Classics never sold well, according to later interviews with Enoch
>>>> Light and others. In the late 60's and early 70's, ABC/MCA kept
>>>> cheapening the packaging and eventually let Pickwick put out
>>>> supermarket-counter versions of some records. Later-era ABC re-cuts
>>>> and pressings are far inferior to original-issues.
>>>>
>>>>  Were these Pittsburgh recordings ever issued on CD ?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> --
>>> Don Cox
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>