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I've been listening in for some time and this posting gave me pause for thought. "but I'm not sure that the US library world is on board." I think that one of the issues I'M attempting to grappling with is not the underlaying structure of the data (I.E. MARC21, marcxml, rdf, etc.) it is the going to be the interface that the professionals use to create the data and maintain the data. The historical hangup is going to be the fact that Catalogers have been using input screens that represent the MARC record (more or less raw, without the Directory data) and over the decades the editors have become sophisticated enough for the user to gain help to the coding. What will be needed to get catalogers to "buy in" to the shift to a new structure, is an editor which the data can be created, manipulated and maintained without know how to use xml coding (or other "<coding>") knowledge. A reminder that MARC was supposed to be "under the hood" and not for the end user—cataloger. No one developed the interface any further and it has become the "defacto" editor. This is where you will have major pushback from the Librarians that are in technical services more than anything else. Of course, our ILS vendors need to step up to the plate and show us some next-generation models for the creation/maintenance/manipulation with input from the users who create the data. I believe that this will be the *major* hurdle to overcome. Once I see an input screen that is as efficient and easy to use as the MARC record is, than I don't care how it lies underneath. I'll be willing to bet librarians will want to add more data than ever before and tie all things together in neat packages (read: FRBR, RDA, etc.) Jeffrey Trimble Associate Director & Head of Information Services William F. Maag Library Youngstown State University 330.941.2483 (Office) [log in to unmask] http://www.maag.ysu.edu http://digital.maag.ysu.edu "For he is the Kwisatz Haderach..." On 1/15/13 10:51 AM, "Karen Coyle" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: Bernard, I think it's important to think of bibliographic data with a broader scope than libraries, much less Bibframe. Bibliographic data is one of the more common types of data that is used widely in a variety of contexts. There are efforts around bib data that come out of publishing, out of "ad hoc" academic efforts, in retail, etc. If we don't think about this bigger world, libraries will end up once again in a silo that is of use only to libraries. Note that W3C already sponsored an effort to encourage libraries to think of their data in the Web context [1]. I'm not sure that it has had that effect (yet). But we really should not create a new bibliographic framework without thinking about: - how other communities might use the data libraries create - how libraries might use the data that other communities create - how library data can interact usefully with data created by other communities It is my impression that the Zepheira vision tries to address these issues, but I'm not sure that the US library world is on board. Some non-US library communities, including the German, British and Swedish, seem to be heading more in that direction, as is Europeana. I agree that we need ways for people to create data and manipulate data so that we can all experiment with these concepts. It needs to become more "real" in order for folks to grasp it. We also need more education in this area, and there is a group at Univ. of Washington who are requesting grants to develop training materials that can be used widely, including databases that can be searched and software that can be used by developers. kc On 1/15/13 5:42 AM, Bernhard Eversberg wrote: Am 15.01.2013 13:36, schrieb Todd Carpenter: ... The end result of this work will be a report that will identify exchange points where standards development is needed, and document suggested areas where functionality testing should be performed. It should help pinpoint at a high level the development priorities and coordination points needed over the next 24-36 months. Very briefly: Most helpful might be the development of a prototype for metadata entry and editing. For right now, those who will actually have to do the jobs (formerly called "catalogers", and who cannot in a short or medium term all be replaced by latter-day staff having been brought up on all the new technologies) are most of them thoroughly perplexed and in the dark about what they will be expected to learn and do. In my minority (?) view, the brave new world will have a chance only if there will be a demonstrably more efficient and elegant way of entering and editing data, surpassing the familiar MARC data entry screen and carrying the potential of becoming as widespread and universal as the latter because knowledge transfer from one application to any other is one of the biggest benefits from MARC's omnipresence. At the same time, only an easily learnable and swiftly operable data interface will be able to convince "other communities" to jump the BIBFRAME bandwagon. (Is there any formal involvement with Zepheira?) B.Eversberg -- Karen Coyle [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet