It would. I'm sure there is an LC guideline that says 1XX should not be altered in RDA review, if the construction is acceptable in RDA. So neither should the qualifier be changed, nor a date be added. perhaps Paul can confirm, as I can't lay my hands on the link at this moment (it's 7 a.m. here and I have not yet had my first cup of tea). Regards Richard _________________________ Richard Moore Authority Control Team Manager The British Library Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806 E-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ________________________________ From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Hostage Sent: 19 February 2013 21:17 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Order of subfields in RDA NARs for personal names Wouldn’t the heading for 50 Cent be considered RDA “acceptable” as is? Moreover, in today’s multicultural world, it’s getting harder and harder to say what does or does not convey the idea of a person. ------------------------------------------ John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services Langdell Hall 194 Cambridge, MA 02138 [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 15:14 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Order of subfields in RDA NARs for personal names This should have been qualified with (Rapper or Rap musician) to begin with. (It’s my record, so I can say what I want about it!) However, if he can now be considered “entrepreneur, investor and actor” as well, then my third alternative below is probably the best one. The first version of the AR looked like this: 010 no2003002159 040 PPi-MA ǂb eng ǂc PPi-MA 1000 50 Cent ǂc (Musician) 4000 Fifty Cent ǂc (Musician) 4001 Jackson, C. ǂq (Curtis) 4001 Jackson, Curtis 670 Music from and inspired by the motion picture 8 mile [SR] p2002: ǂb container (50 Cent) insert (C. Jackson) 670 All music guide WWW site, Jan. 8, 2003 ǂb (50 Cent; b. Curtis Jackson, Queens, NY; rapper) 670 OCLC database, Jan. 8, 2003 ǂb (hdgs.: 50 Cent (Musician); 50 Cent, rapper) More worrisome is what to do in upgrading this to RDA. There are almost too many possibilities: 50 Cent ǂc (Rapper) 50 Cent ǂc (Rapper), ǂd 1975- 50 Cent, ǂd 1975- I think we’ve established, mainly though Richard Moore’s thoughtful statements, that $c would precede $d. But the question remains: with a birth date clearly identifying “50 Cent” as a person, is the additional of Occupation even necessary: 010 no 00088820 040 RPB-M ǂb eng ǂc RPB-M ǂd PPi-MA ǂd DLC ǂe rda ǂd ICrlF 046 ǂf 1971 1000 Chali 2na, ǂd 1971- 372 Music industry 373 Jurassic 5 374 Rapper 375 male 377 eng 4000 Chali2na, ǂd 1971- 4001 2na, Chali 4000 Chali2na ǂc (Musician) 4001 Stewart, Charles, ǂd 1971- 4001 Tuna, Charlie 4000 Chali 2na ǂc (Musician) ǂw nnea I haven’t been consistent myself. I’d like to be, going forward at least. Chuck Herrold Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gonzalez, Carolyn S Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Order of subfields in RDA NARs for personal names Should 50 Cent be qualified by (Rapper) rather than by (Musician)? Wikipedia lists 50 Cent as being a rapper, entrepreneur, investor and actor. (My staff have been debating this for the last 15 minutes.) Are these qualifications up for discussion? Thanks, Carolyn Gonzalez Head of Technical Services Sueltenfuss Library Our Lady of the Lake University 411 SW 24th St San Antonio, TX 78249 (210) 434-6711 x8165 From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark K. Ehlert Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:21 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Order of subfields in RDA NARs for personal names Herrold, Charles <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I’ve done one somewhat like this—not very tidy—and perhaps incorrectly: 1000 KJ-52 ǂc (Rapper), ǂd 1975- [changed from KJ52 (Rapper)] A question on this point came up during our RDA in NACO training in November. Here's the question I posed to Paul Frank along with his response: 5. Additions made to names that do not evoke "person-ness": since LC-PCC PS 126.96.36.199 asks for birth/death dates in personal name access points regardless of conflict, it seems this is also expected for those names that require Profession/Occupation element data to clarify the person-ness of someone (RDA 188.8.131.52). Following this, we would then have: 100 0- 50 Cent $c (Musician), $d 1975- Is this correct? PF: Yes, this is correct. -- Mark K. 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