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On 5/16/13 8:08 AM, Owen Stephens wrote:
> You are correct in the direction of the relationship, but the thing I was really getting at was the additional layer. SCoRO actually does something more like:
>
> PersonB -> hasRole -> Role1
> Role1 -> isAuthorOf -> BookA
>
> Which is not dissimilar to what Tom was proposing I think?

Actually, I don't think that's quite it. What is "Role1" in this case? 
It can't be "editor" or some URI for editor, because then you'd be saying:

"John hasRole editor"
"editor is author of BookA"

Unless "editor" is some unique ID, you haven't connected these together. 
If it is a unique id, then it doesn't make sense as a role. It's more 
like "has specific relationship to" or something like that. Looking at 
what SCoRO does shows how far you have to go to make a clear connection. 
First, in their turtle (which is deceptively concise):

:Shottona foaf:Person ; foaf:name "David Shotton" ;
    scoro:hasORCID "0000-0001-5506-523X" ;

    pro:holdsRoleInTime [ a pro:RoleInTime ;
       pro:withRole scoro:author , scoro:senior-author ;
       scoro:relatesToPublication:Adventures] ;

This says that:
  
- Shotton is a person
- Shotton has name "David Shotton"
- Shotton has ORCID ...
- ShottonholdsRoleInTime Role1
- Role1 is a RoleInTime
-Role1withRole scoro:author
-Role1  withRole scoro:senior-author
- Role1 relatesToPublication (URI)Adventures

Each role/publication relationship gets its own identifier in this 
scenario. However, this doesn't give you a role in the bibliographic 
entity. In fact, you have a gap there to be filled:

BibEntity1 -> ? -> Shotton

There's no relationship here, because the role, which is the 
relationship, is a property of the person, not the bibliographic entity. 
Let's say that you do what SCoRO does, and use "dc:creator" as a generic 
relationship between the bibliographic entity and the person.

BibEntity1 -> dc:creator -> Shotton

Then the role has to be found NOT by querying simply for Shotton, but by 
querying Shotton + relatesToPublication, returning all values for 
"withRole", which in this case is "author" and "senior-author." This 
means that if you don't query for the role, you don't know what the 
relationship is between Shotton and BibEntity1. It also begs the 
question of "roles" like being the subject of, or the owner of, 
something. SCoRO is only concerned with creators so they don't cover 
these other cases.

>> It still doesn't solve our problem of roles without URIs, which cannot be in that middle position in the triple.
> SCoRO itself limits the types of relationship that can be used, but the structure would allow you to adopt something closer to Tom's proposal
>
> Owen

Yes, because role in SCoRO is an object and not a predicate, you could 
use text instead of a URI. I believe this is all very similar to the 
example I gave with blank nodes, although this solution allows one to 
link all publications to a single Person (or corporation, etc.) 
identity. I wouldn't, however, consider it "lightweight." :-)

kc

-- 
Karen Coyle
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