> Stuart - can you give the examples you were going to give now VIAF is > back up? I believe that, as librarians, we can all see a semantic difference between the documents pointed to by these two URIs: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html http://viaf.org/viaf/179020116/ [I'm not interested in the exact semantic differences or the terminology we use to express them, that's a kettle of fish to be savoured separately]. I believe that we can agree that future BIBFRAME-based library systems / ecosystems are likely to need to make distinctions based on similar semantic differences. I posit that the distinction between those documents is the same as (or at least parallel to) the distinction between the 'thing' and the 'authority' in the lightweight abstraction layer. I posit further that the lightweight abstraction layer is needed to express the difference between these documents: http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/no2008000433.html http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n79065871.html http://viaf.org/viaf/182132891/ http://viaf.org/viaf/155934344/ http://viaf.org/viaf/179020116/ http://catalogo.bne.es/uhtbin/authoritybrowse.cgi?action=display&authority_id=XX437257 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5#bibrec http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11698 ... Some of us may choose to banish some of those documents from the systems under our purview, but without the ability to express the differences and reason about them, we'll be unable to do so in an automated fashion based on BIBFRAME. For example, we have a subject classification called Ngā Ūpoko Tukutuku http://mshupoko.natlib.govt.nz/mshupoko/index.htm It's entirely possible that we'd accept NŪT metadata from sources which we'd not normally accept LCSH metadata from. Being able to express that in BIBFRAME opens the door to automated rule-based acceptance of such metadata, across a group of libraries. Such a rule might be "When considering an authority for import, IF the authority refers to an entity that we already have AND we don't have NŪT for the entity AND the entity being considered does have NŪT for the entity, THEN import the authority." Such rules are hard / impossible to conceptualise without an 'authority' separate from the 'entity'. [Note that I'm not suggesting we increase the scope of BIBFRAME to include rule-based workflows, just attempting to ensure that we can represent the condition clause of a rule in BIBFRAME] ngā mihi stuart -- Stuart Yeates Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/