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Interesting!  I wouldn't have guessed that it could be useful information.

Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Lewis
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 3:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Phonobomb examples?

By RCA he means "Record Corp. of America" not RCA Victor

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:57 PM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> from http://www.soundfountain.com/allegro-royale/catalogue.html
>
> Documented instances where phonobombs may be used to *identify* a recording:
>
> Discussion . . .
>
>
>
> During the evaluation of certain items of the "RCA" catalogue, the 
> author has found hints which might additionally point for a couple of 
> items to an "East German source" and he prefers to believe in the use 
> of first generation copies of radio tapes in these cases, rather than 
> in the generally accepted version of low-quality tape recorded 
> broadcasts.
>
> The Brahms Symphony No. 4 on Royale 1239 ("Berlin Symphony Orchestra / 
> Franz R. Friedl", also on Allegro/Elite 3124, "Dresden State Symphony 
> Orchestra / Fritz Schreiber") is a studio recording of the same sound 
> ambience as in the Haydn No. 94 on Royale 1223 and in some other works 
> in their catalogue. What makes these recordings so interesting is some 
> extraneous noise, clearly audible during certain soft passages in the 
> slow movements, especially when earphones are used. However, this 
> could only be detected in some of the cases when the usually quieter 
> pressings of these performances in their incarnations on Gramophone 
> were inspected. In these cases there are crows of a rooster and sounds 
> of car horns coming in from outside the recording location!
>
> It may not be without significance, in this respect, that sounds from 
> car horns also intrude into the recordings of Dvorak's 9th symphony 
> under Pflüger (Urania URLP 7132) as well as into  Abendroth's 
> Beethoven 'Pastorale' from 1950 and into his Tchaikovsky 'Pathétique'
> from 1952, both issued on Etema. In Schubert's 'Unfinished' on Royale
> 1220 ("Rome Symphony Orchestra / Dr. Felix Guenther", also on 
> Gramophone 2040, "National Opera Orchestra") there is another car horn 
> finding its way into the recording somewhere in the middle of the 
> first movement, and yet another one can be heard at the very beginning 
> of Franck's Symphony on Royale 1288 ("Berlin Symphony Orchestra / 
> Joseph Balzer", also on Gramophone 2088, "National Opera Orchestra").
> The peak may be in Haydn's 'Surprise Symphony' on Royale 1223 
> ("Orchestra of the Rome Symphony / Angelo Questa", also on Gramophone 
> 2040, "Varsity Symphony Orchestra"), where a rooster's crow is 
> followed by a car horn and then something like the jingling bells of a 
> tramway, all this at the beginning of the second movement, when 
> Haydn's "surprise" is just about due. This extraneous noise, the 
> rooster's contribution in particular, is a tantalizing facet of these 
> "RCA" items, as this makes them likely to be connected with a very 
> particular, if not unique, recording location. No definite answer can 
> be given as yet to the question of where this location may have been.
>
> In this author's opinion the fact of these very faint noises, captured 
> on a tape used for a record production would rule out a mere 
> off-the-air tape as a master in these instances (and many others not 
> "marred" by such extra-musical ornation), because it seems unlikely 
> that such delicate sounds should have been transmitted that clearly by 
> AM or FM broadcasts of those times. Record piracy indisputably is a 
> violation of law. Nevertheless, without a doubt, through this practice 
> a couple of performances have been preserved, which otherwise would be 
> lost for all times. In continuing his research, the author hopes to be 
> able to rely as much on his fellow-collectors'future support as he 
> could in the past. There is still much to do and surely more to 
> discover.
>
> forwarded by Uncle Dave Lewis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 3:33 PM,  <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I recall reading that there are birds twittering on at least one of 
>> Les Paul's great hit records.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/2/2013 3:30:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>> Insect  noises? Like termites munching his Bosendorfer?
>> I know of one instance  where an artist dubbed in his dog barking 
>> quietly at the beginning of a  piece. he had flubbed the beginning, 
>> stopped, went "Shhh... shh..." to the  dog and began again. Very cute.
>> M
>>
>> *******
>>
>> On 8/2/2013 4:18  AM, Don Cox wrote:
>>> On 02/08/2013, Donald Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mitch Miller wanted Frank Sinatra to bark like a  dog on one of his 
>>>> later Columbia sides, but he wouldn't do it and  Miller had to get 
>>>> somebody else. A famous recording of  Scheherezade by the 
>>>> Philadelphia Orchestra, transferred from 78s  for the new 
>>>> long-playing record in 1948, had reverb added to it,  using an old 
>>>> piece of tape that had a barking dog on it, and you  could hear 
>>>> that on the finished LP. And there's a few live folk  recordings 
>>>> made outdoors with barkers in the chorus; I've heard  one, but I 
>>>> don't remember what it was. There were fiddlers playing  "The Hot Canary", Leroy Anderson's "The Waltzing Cat"
>>>>
>>>  Rudolf Serkin's version of the Diabelli Variations, recorded at his  
>>> home, has insect noises in the background.
>>>
>>> There are many  recordings from Kingsway Hall with audible tube trains.
>>>
>>>  Regards