Charles, I think the “subjective information” on Knotts isn’t as bad as that for Moon. I am almost certain that if you had described Knotts as “skinny, lovable nerd who kept generations of television audiences laughing as the bumbling Deputy Barney Fife on The Andy Griffith show)” to his face or to one of his fans, he would not have objected to it. After all, that is the persona he projected, whether it was true to his “real” personality or not. I suppose mentioning the shows he was on, as you said, might be safer, but I wouldn’t worry very much about the “skinny, lovable nerd” statement either. Remember that he starred in a film called “The Love God?,” where the whole point of the humor was the contrast between his persona and the role. But to call Moon a “self-proclaimed [or pseudo-] Messiah” is openly contemptuous of the church he founded. Though “pseudo-Messiah” is an established LCSH heading, it strikes me that it would only be safe to use it after a period of decades, at least, after the death of the person. In a shorter time frame, the description would be controversial. I think it might be impossible to make hard and fast rules about this sort of thing. It’s a matter of “cataloger judgment,” as we’ve long been told. But catalogers do need to have good judgment! Ted Gemberling UAB Lister Hill Library From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Herrold, Charles Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:07 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] subjective opinions buried in the new fields on NARs - open season? I've noticed this subjective stuff in (mostly) LC-added 670s for years, and I am not fond of it. Obviously it's the result of a cut-and-paste approach. (Cut and paste is fine as long as appropriate edits are made.) To translate that information into an attribute is most unfortunate, IMO. The full 670 is: New York times WWW site, Sept. 4, 2012 ǂb (in obituary published Sept. 2: the Rev. Sun Myung Moon; b. Jan. 6, 1920, in a small rural town in what is now North Korea; d. Monday [Sept. 3, 2012], Gapyeong, South Korea, aged 92; Korean evangelist, businessman, and self-proclaimed messiah who built a religious movement notable for its mass weddings, fresh-faced proselytizers, and links to vast commercial interests) Note that other piece of subjective information. Some years back, I actually questioned this 670 added to n 87922126 when Don Knotts died: New York times WWW site, Feb. 27, 2006 ǂb (in obituary published Feb. 26: Don Knotts; b. in W. Va.; d. Friday [Feb. 24, 2006], Beverly Hills, aged 81; skinny, lovable nerd who kept generations of television audiences laughing as the bumbling Deputy Barney Fife on The Andy Griffith show) It was promptly changed by LC to: 670 New York times WWW site, Feb. 27, 2006 ǂb (in obituary published Feb. 26: Don Knotts; b. in W. Va.; d. Friday [Feb. 24, 2006], Beverly Hills, aged 81) The rest of the information could have been added in objective form, for example: known for playing Deputy Barney Fife on The Andy Griffith show. Had that subjective text been retained, I suppose we might, theoretically, have encountered this, by analogy with the Moon AR: 374 Nerd (Just kidding ☺) Chuck Herrold Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh -----Original Message----- From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:02 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] subjective opinions buried in the new fields on NARs - open season? Editorial aside for n 79006991: since the 670 field gives the date, place and "occupation" information, subfield $v is redundant in the 046, 370 and 374 fields. It creates clutter without adding information. Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc. Twitter: GaryLStrawn Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300 e-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> voice: 847/491-2788 fax: 847/491-8306 Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit. BatchCat version: 2007.25.428 -----Original Message----- From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CHRISTOPHER WALKER Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 10:54 AM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: [PCCLIST] subjective opinions buried in the new fields on NARs - open season? Colleagues, In another online community where catalogers gather, discussion is raging about the 374 that has been added to NAR n 79006991 for Moon, Sun Myung: Evangelist ǂa Businessman ǂa Self-proclaimed messiah ǂv New York times, Sept. 2, 2012. I find the characterization in the third $a profoundly disturbing both with regard to this particular NAR and in its implication that if catalogers can only find something scurrilous to quote from a respected newspaper, they may add it to an established NAR for a religious leader, politician, or historical figure they happen not to like or admire. The potential for editing wars is surely not something envisioned by the framers of the new MARC fields introduced by RDA. Christopher H. Walker Serials Cataloging Librarian Penn State's representative to the CONSER Operations Committee Member at Large, ALCTS CRS Executive Committee 2013/2016 126 Paterno Library The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-1812 (814) 865-4212 [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> This email message and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.� Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by anyone other than the intended individual or entity is prohibited without prior approval.� If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately.