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Mike, was the earliest or one of the earliest off-air recordings the cylinders made by the guy in NJ 
who cracked the German spy ring broadcasting sped up morse code out on Long Island? I remember there 
was mention of that and some of the audio on the Evatone SoundSheet that accompanied a 2-part 
"history of recording" series in Audio Magazine.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour broadcasts


> From: Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>
>> Thanks for this information Mike.This may seem like a really basic
>> question,but the earliest radio transcription records I have seen
>> of full programs are from around 1929-30.When most radio shows
>> from the 1920s were recorded,were they cut to lacquer?  Roger
>
> In the 20s they recorded on wax and electroplated to make shellac
> pressings.  The lacquer disc was not introduced until late 1934.
> Uncoated aluminum was first used privately in 1928 but was not common
> till 1930.  The RCA pre-grooved Home Record disc was late 1930.  The
> uncoated and lacquer led to greater numbers of broadcst recordings by
> the radio stations and the new business of recording studios.
> Syndicated recording, most of them pre-recorded, continued to be cut on
> wax, then later on lacquer, for plating and pressing on shellac and
> vinyl.  Optical film had a minor role in mastering, and wax cylinders,
> Blattnerphone/Marconi-Stille steel tape, AEG plastic tape,
> Philips-Millertape, Amertype grooved film, magnetic wire, embossed discs
> like Gray Autograph, SoundScriber, and Edison and a few other formats
> were also used occasionally in the 30s and 40s.
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
>> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 11:41:07 -0400
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour broadcasts
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> What a shame. I hope they will be able to resurrect these items with a
>> machine that can play them correctly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > From: John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > That's very interesting. Thanks for posting that, Mike. Do you
>> > > know what the content was of those GE Hour symphony broadcasts?
>> > > Thanks, John
>> >
>> > Yes I do but I don't have the materials handy. I also have a full set
>> > of the DREADFUL transfers made from the ineptly designed playback
>> > machine. I have not heard from them if they are going ahead with plans
>> > to make another machine. Damrosch is quoted as saying that the sound of
>> > the films was wonderful, so it has got to be that newly constructed
>> > (distructed) playback machine. There are at least 10 full programs
>> > including the one he had listened to. The guy who made the machine was
>> > a computer programmer and I guess he didn't realize that analog
>> > recordings did not re-clock for jitter.
>> >
>> > Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > Here's a link to a cite that discusses the earliest radio broadcasts
>> > > >(not limited to symphonic), based on the expertise of ARSC;s own
>> > Dr.Biel.
>> > > > http://www.old-time.com/mcleod/ Best, John Haley
>> > >
>> > > It has been a while since Elizabeth has updated this essay, so she does
>> > > not include new discoveries such as the June 1924 WEAF excerpts of
>> > > Victor Herbert's "Sweethearts" from the memorial performance on the
>> > > stage of the Capitol theater and excerpts of the Roxy's gang show which
>> > > followed; the 1925 broadcast sign-off from the Kansas City radio
>> > > convention featuring many famous announcers from around the country; and
>> > > the many WGY recordings from 1929 and 1930 Pallophotophone films
>> > > including some complete G.E Hour symphony broadcasts, B.A. Rolfe Lucky
>> > > Strike Orch, and other excerpts including a high school basketball game
>> > > called by Graham McNamee. The films were played on a machine they made
>> > > without any flywheel stabilizing, thus are nearly unlistenable until
>> > > they get a machine built by an audio expert.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>> > >
>> > > -------- Original Message --------
>> > > Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I have often wondered,what is the earliest surviving recording of a
>> > > > symphony orchestra radio broadcast?
>> > > >
>> > > > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:51:58 -0700
>> > > > > From: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour broadcasts
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yes,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > February 10, 1922, as noted in the posting, so the DSO beat the NY
>> > Phil
>> > > > by 6 months.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > However, as a consolation, it appears that NYPO had the first
>> > national
>> > > > broadcast in 1930,
>> > > > > 4 years before the DSO began their Ford Hour broadcasts.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- Leo Gillis
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --------------------------------------------
>> > > > > On Thu, 3/20/14, Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour broadcasts
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2014, 7:24 PM
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Can you supply date?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > New York Phil. Many summer Concerts were complete, the first
>> > > > > being 8/11/22.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Steve Smolian
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> > > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> > > > > On Behalf Of Leo Gillis
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 3:09 PM
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour broadcasts
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hi Steve,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > There certainly were earlier broadcasts of classical music
>> > > > > on the radio but it seems that the DSO was the first to do a
>> > > > > full concert.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is from the DSO website:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "In 1922, Gabrilowitsch led the orchestra and guest pianist
>> > > > > Artur Schnabel in the world's first radio broadcast of a
>> > > > > symphonic concert on WWJ-AM. "
>> > > > >
>> > > > > and from last.fm:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "The DSO performed the world's first radio broadcast of a
>> > > > > symphonic concert on February 10, 1922 with pianist Artur
>> > > > > Schnabel, and became the first nationally broadcast radio
>> > > > > orchestra on the Ford Sunday Evening Hour, later Ford
>> > > > > Symphony Hour from 1934 to 1942 on the Columbia Broadcast
>> > > > > System."
>> > > > >
>> > > > > and from the Schabel Music Foundation:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Feb. 1922 --Schnabel coincidentally participated in the
>> > > > > first live radio broadcast of a complete symphony orchestra
>> > > > > concert. This was in Detroit, Michigan during his first
>> > > > > American tour."
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > There are only four instances of Schnabel mentioned in the
>> > > > > performance archives of the DSO. The first two are for
>> > > > > identical concerts on Feb. 9 and 10, 1922; the second
>> > > > > performance was the one broadcast on WWJ (which, however,
>> > > > > was still WBL at that time, and did not receive the call
>> > > > > letters WWJ until March 3, 1922):
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Tenth Programme
>> > > > > Subscription 10
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Detroit Symphony Orchestra
>> > > > > Thursday, February 09, 1922
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Artists
>> > > > > Ossip Gabrilowtisch, conductor
>> > > > > Artur Schnabel, Piano
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Program
>> > > > > Mendelssohn - Overture from Calm Sea and Prosperous
>> > > > > Voyage, Op. 27 Brahms - Piano Concerto No.1 in D
>> > > > > minor, Op.15 Intermission Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 6
>> > > > > in B minor, Op. 74, "Pathétique"
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So when did the NYPO start their broadcasts? From their site
>> > > > > we have:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Aug. 11, 1922 - First broadcast by a
>> > > > > major symphony orchestra, New York Philharmonic,
>> > > > > program conducted by Willem van Hoogstraten from Lewisohn
>> > > > > Stadium."
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- Leo Gillis
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --------------------------------------------
>> > > > > On Thu, 3/20/14, Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour
>> > > > > broadcasts
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2014, 5:26 PM
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hi, there, DDR et al,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The New York Philharmonic was being broadcast regularly
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > previous year.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Steve Smolian
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> > > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> > > > > On Behalf Of Dennis Rooney
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:12 PM
>> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ford Sunday Evening Hour
>> > > > > broadcasts
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The 1923 broadcasts are authentic but unrecorded. The were
>> > > > > conducted by
>> > > > > Gabrilowitsch. They may have been the first radio
>> > > > > broadcast
>> > > > > of a regular
>> > > > > symphony orchestra concert. The Minneapolis Symphony under
>> > > > > Verbrugghen also
>> > > > > broadcast in that same year.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > DDR
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:41 PM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks, Leo. Great info.
>> > > > > > Best, John
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Leo Gillis <[log in to unmask]
>> > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The online archives of the DSO for the Ford
>> > > > > Sunday
>> > > > > Evening Hour goes
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > 2/16/1934 to 3/8/1947. A couple are listed for
>> > > > > 1923, but I'm not
>> > > > > > > sure if those are correct.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > http://www.dso.org/performanceTitle.aspx?page_id=648
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The list of conductors includes: Victor
>> > > > > Kolar, Fritz Reiner, Mischa
>> > > > > > > Levitsky, Alexander Smallens, Charles Hackett,
>> > > > > Richard Bonelli, Sir
>> > > > > > Ernest
>> > > > > > > MacMillan, Emma Otero, Franco Ghione, Elwyn
>> > > > > Carter, Andre
>> > > > > > > Kostelanetz,
>> > > > > > Sir
>> > > > > > > John Barbirolli, Sir Thomas Beecham, Wilfrid
>> > > > > Pelletier, Jose Iturbi,
>> > > > > > George
>> > > > > > > Szell, Sir Eugene Ormandy, Reginald Stewart,
>> > > > > Artur, Rodzinaksi,
>> > > > > > > Eugene Goossens, Victor Kolar, Harold Koch,
>> > > > > Dmitri
>> > > > > Mitropoulos, Karl
>> > > > > > > Krueger, William Steinberg, Leonard Bernstein,
>> > > > > Efrem Kurtz, and C.
>> > > > > Valter Poole.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The first few years were all Kolar, (DSO
>> > > > > principal
>> > > > > conductor) then
>> > > > > > > Reiner and Ormandy began appearing. Kolar,
>> > > > > Reiner,
>> > > > > Ormandy, Iturbi,
>> > > > > > > Pelletier
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > Beecham did numerous performances, and many of
>> > > > > these in later years
>> > > > > > > were held at the Music Hall, another fine, small
>> > > > > venue in downtown
>> > > > > > > Detroit, still in operation. Several of the
>> > > > > listings unfortunately
>> > > > > > > do not include the performance venue.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > -- Leo Gillis
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Don Tait
>> > > > > ([log in to unmask])
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > < [log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I have tapes or private CD-Rs of some
>> > > > > of those broadcasts. From
>> > > > > > > circa > 1941/2. Each 30 minutes. All I
>> > > > > have are conducted by Fritz
>> > > > > > > Reiner, who > presumably took the train
>> > > > > up from Pittsburgh for the
>> > > > > > > gig. I got the > recordings >
>> > > > > from fellow Reiner collectors and
>> > > > > > > have no idea who might have
>> > > > > conducted > other > programs. As one
>> > > > > > > might expect, the selections are short
>> > > > > and the musical > gruel is
>> > > > > > > pretty thin. The "theme music" for each
>> > > > > program is the French >
>> > > > > > > horn > "bedtime" music from Hansel und
>> > > > > Gretel.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I do not remember
>> > > > > whether the
>> > > > > > > announcer(s) said from where the
>> > > > > > > > broadcasts originated. Sorry.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Don Tait
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > In a message dated 3/18/2014 3:38:10
>> > > > > P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> > > > > > > > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > > > writes:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Starting in 1934 and continuing
>> > > > > for a number of years
>> > > > > > > thereafter, the > Detroit
>> > > > > Symphony
>> > > > > appeared on a radio program,
>> > > > > > > the Ford Symphony Hour.
>> > > > > > > > Some
>> > > > > > > > of the most distinguished
>> > > > > conductors of that time regularly
>> > > > > > > guested on > this > show,
>> > > > > which
>> > > > > also featured big name soloists.
>> > > > > > > Preserved broadcasts show
>> > > > > > > > that the orchestra was an excellent
>> > > > > one
>> > > > > during this period, and
>> > > > > > > the > acoustics audible on these
>> > > > > recordings sound OK, with a touch
>> > > > > > > of nice hall > ambiance. A
>> > > > > number of these broadcasts are sought
>> > > > > > > after by collectors. I >
>> > > > > don't know where these shows were
>> > > > > > > recorded, but I assume they predate
>> > > > > the > Ford Auditorium referred
>> > > > > > > to previously.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Best,
>> > > > > > > > John Haley
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > 1006 Langer Way
>> > > > > Delray Beach, FL 33483
>> > > > > 212.874.9626
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>
>