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There's a primary disconnect between "smart" phone manufacturers and the American public. Specifically, phone microphones get buried in the American jowl. iPhones are the worst. I notice the latest generation iPhone and some Samsung phones are longer, presumable to reach down closer to the mouth and not into the middle of the word-muffling jowl. -- Tom Fine (still using a Krzr flip-phone) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Smolian" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Toothpaste > The problem is now semi-universal. > > I use a landline telephone and continually receive calls so compessed and > unitelligible that I have to ask to callers to speak slowly and move a bit > back from their device. It works sometimes. I assume it's cellphones but > could also be the transmission system. > > Steve Smolian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:09 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Toothpaste > > Equally terrible is the broadcast signal of WCBS-AM, Newsradio 88. Between > having reporters talk a few sentences into a cellphone and their massive > over-compression, the "on location" reporting is often unintelligable. I > grew up listening to Newsradio 88 and it was a textbook example of clearly > audible human speech and excellent spoken-word news and actuarial production > when I was a kid. Now it's reduced to disjointed, context-lacking bursts of > low-intelligable words which may or may not make any sense. > > Along these lines, where did the idea come into radio that people need to > speak so fast that they are throwing out words with little enunciation? Why > is this "good"? Slow the hell down, say the words clearly and get the > message across. And, no offense, but is radio the right job for people with > speech impediments? Radio circa 2014 is full of such people, people who > can't say "L" sounds correctly (it comes out as "W" sounds), people with bad > lisps and a whole new generation of "millennials" who talk in questions. Are > we now so politically correct that we can't demand clear, declarative > English speech as a requirement for radio on-air employment? I'll save for > another time the subject of TV "personalities" who are so unskilled that > they can't properly read a teleprompter for a few seconds at a time, can't > even manage to consistently spit out proper English sentences with a script > right there in front of them. > > -- Tom Fine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Durenberger" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Toothpaste > > >>A good point..because it brings out an insensitivity (carelessness???) > (indifference???) on the >>part of broadcast engineers who don't notice this is an abnormal sound. >> >> Today's audio processing gear includes "gating" controls that are smart > enough to hold gain in >> place during syllabic breaks in exactly that sort of audio. The > properly-adjusted result can >> actually be very pleasing...and there IS a romance about long-distance > nighttime AM >> listening...and fun to the other team's broadcaster when your team is > visiting. >> >> But you're right...a lot of stations are guilty (both AM and FM). They're > misusing what can be >> very effective audio control equipment. For too many it's "plug-and-play > and on to other things." >> Tom Fine's NPR citation can include an examples of operations where folks > DO care. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark Durenberger, CPBE >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Steve Greene >> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:35 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Toothpaste >> >> Worst broadcast example I can think of is baseball on AM radio. They are >> now compressed to the point that the background noise: crowd noises, >> sirens, the PA all meld into a wall of rumble just under the the levels of >> the announcers. Thankfully, I can usually get games on FM now. >> >> Steve Greene >> Audiovisual Archivist >> Office of Presidential Libraries >> National Archives and Records Administration >> (301) 837-1772 >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Mark Shakarjian > <[log in to unmask]>wrote: >> >>> The link doesn't explain much. Would wiki take it down?? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> Sent from a device you don't need to know about >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 11, 2014, at 8:32 AM, "Smith, Allison" <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi - >>> > >>> > Thanks a lot for the link. >>> > >>> > Regarding the Radio/Compression comment - that is sad. However, WPR >>> doesn't broadcast compressed material if we can help it. We only > broadcast >>> compressed files that are not produced by us, and are sent to us that > way. >>> Then, we have no choice. >>> > >>> > Our audio engineers are aware of the difference for the listener. >>> > >>> > Cheers! >>> > >>> > *********************************************************** >>> > Allison A. Smith >>> > Archivist, Wisconsin Public Radio >>> > 821 University Avenue, Suite 7151 >>> > Madison, WI 53706-1497 >>> > P (608) 263-8806 >>> > F (608) 263-9763 >>> > [log in to unmask] >>> > It's not true I had nothing on, I had the radio on - Marilyn Monroe >>> > >>> > *********************************************************** >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto: >>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Greene >>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 09:42 AM >>> > To: [log in to unmask] >>> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Toothpaste >>> > >>> > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war! I had never heard the >>> "toothpaste" metaphor either, but it's a great, visceral image! >>> > >>> > Compression is a tool used all the time on radio. In fact radio may be > a >>> prime driver of the trend. >>> > >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > Steve Greene >>> > Audiovisual Archivist >>> > Office of Presidential Libraries >>> > National Archives and Records Administration >>> > (301) 837-1772 >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Smith, Allison <[log in to unmask] >>> >wrote: >>> > >>> >> I am fascinated by this toothpaste discussion. I've never heard that >>> >> term before! I tried googling "toothpaste and sound mastering" to get >>> >> some further info, but only found a few very minor discussions (and a >>> >> lot of information about toothpaste in general). >>> >> >>> >> Would someone please explain this to the group - or, send a link that >>> >> does? Thanks! >>> >> >>> >> This is purely for my own interest... >>> >> >>> >> Allison >>> >> >>> >> *********************************************************** >>> >> Allison A. Smith >>> >> Archivist, Wisconsin Public Radio >>> >> 821 University Avenue, Suite 7151 >>> >> Madison, WI 53706-1497 >>> >> P (608) 263-8806 >>> >> F (608) 263-9763 >>> >> [log in to unmask] >>> >> It's not true I had nothing on, I had the radio on - Marilyn Monroe >>> >> >>> >> *********************************************************** >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto: >>> >> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 05:57 AM >>> >> To: [log in to unmask] >>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on >>> >> FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis >>> >> >>> >> The worst example of toothpasting ever was the last Metallica album >>> >> (which still won a Grammy for album art and was nominated for heavy >>> >> metal categories -- nice message about quality from the Grammy folks). >>> >> The RMS average level on that CD is -3dBfs and it's totally clipped. >>> >> It's so over-loud that it clips the analog stage of most playback >>> >> systems, clipping an already clipped waveform. And when it's crunched >>> >> to a lossy format, it clips further because of all the digital overs >>> >> created by the crunching math and psycho-acoustic EQ stuff. Even >>> >> sometimes hearing damaged metal fans hate the sound of that album. >>> >> Music-wise, while it's not up to Metallica's prime standards, it was >>> >> their best album in years and could have stood as a very powerful last >>> >> stand against age and changing music/culture trends. But it sounds so >>> >> bad, I don't think it will be remembered as something as good as the >>> music. >>> >> >>> >> The mastering guys tell me that the biggest problem with the >>> >> toothpasted stuff is that it's often delivered to them like that. Once >>> >> a digital file has been committed to toothpasting, especially if it's >>> >> done track by track, it can't be undone. Even if the toothpaste >>> >> commitment came in the mixing, it's still an expensive and >>> >> time-consuming endeavor to go back and remix it with civilized > dynamics. >>> >> The same is true with analog recordings, of course, and toothpasting >>> >> was not invented in the DAW world (nor in rock music -- see Buddy >>> >> Rich's 1970s Groove Merchant albums as an example of super-compressed >>> jazz production). >>> >> >>> >> As I've said before, the thing that amazes me about toothpasting is >>> >> that the drummers -- usually the tough guys in the band -- let the >>> >> guitarists win and come out louder. Toothpasting hurts electric >>> >> guitars the least and drums the most. >>> >> >>> >> -- Tom Fine >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]> >>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:35 AM >>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on >>> >> FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and Analysis >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> I actually had a client not pay me about a year ago for a mastering >>> >>> job because it wasn't touthpasted. They went and redid it with >>> >>> another engineer who did. And they had the audacity >>> >>> (Spelling?) to use my mixes without paying for them. >>> >>> Shai >>> >>> בתאריך 11/03/14 12:18 PM, ציטוט Tom Fine: >>> >>>> Yes. I lump them with record company hacks. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Cham" <[log in to unmask]> >>> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:19 PM >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resoluti on >>> >>>> FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech New s and >>> >>>> Analysis >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Let's not forget the producers in this. Back when I was very >>> >>>>> active in recording, they were the main proponents of louder is >>> better. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Bob Cham >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> Apple, because it's Apple, hates FLAC and refuses to allow it in >>> >>>>>> iTunes. Meanwhile, Sony is belatedly putting on a big push for >>> >>>>>> native DSD, including a hardware/marketing push. So it's likely >>> >>>>>> to be muddled, SACD vs DVD-A all over again. That said, anything >>> >>>>>> to promote higher-quality downloads is a Good Thing in my book. I >>> >>>>>> include in that Mastered for iTunes, but note that the vast >>> >>>>>> majority of material sold on iTunes was not well mastered or well >>> >> converted to the lossy format. Newer stuff, if it carries the Mastered >>> >> for iTunes certification is better. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On another front, I'm seeing slight signs of progress against >>> >>>>>> terrible-sounding toothpaste MAKE IT LOUDER mastering. Just the >>> >>>>>> fact that the high-rez downloads places are demanding reasonable >>> >>>>>> dynamics is trickling down to the CD mastering. I've now heard >>> >>>>>> enough tales of woe from mastering engineers -- "The Artist Made >>> >>>>>> Me Do It" or "The Record Company Suit Made Me Do It" -- that I >>> >>>>>> tend to >>> >> believe them, that Make It Louder is completely the fault of tin-eared >>> >> artists and record company hacks. But that doesn't make the results >>> >> sound any better! >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> --Tom Fine >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Stamps" >>> >>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> >>> >>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 6:20 PM >>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Neil Young wants to take h igh-resolution >>> >>>>>> FLAC audio recordings mainstrea m with Pono - Tech News and >>> >>>>>> Analysis >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> I hope all the players update their software so FLAC will play >>> >>>>>>> on everything, but unfortunately it's not possible since many >>> >>>>>>> players (both software and hardware) sold and/or distributed in >>> >>>>>>> the past >>> >> cannot be updated. >>> >>>>>>> Tim >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 4:42 PM, Steve Greene wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> http://gigaom.com/2014/03/10/neil-young-wants-to-take-high-reso >>> >>>>>>>> lu tion-flac-audio-recordings-mainstream-with-pono/ >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Stay tuned... >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Curious as to what kind of mass-market penetration you can make >>> >>>>>>>> at that price-point. Is the audiophile market alone enough? >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Steve >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> !DSPAM:639,531e5abb44331637612606! >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Shai Drori >>> >>> Timeless Recordings >>> >>> [log in to unmask] >>> >>> בברכה, >>> >>> שי דרורי >>> >>> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >