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I agree with what all of you are saying.  I wasn't saying that there are no frequencies on an LP above 20k, just that whoever wrote the item might have meant that he believes that and that's why he talked about the mathematical relationship between LPs and CDs.  My hearing cuts off long before 20k - I doubt if I can hear much above 14k - but an SACD sounds to me like it has much more hf content than its CD equivalent.  Some people will say that's because I can hear frequencies in a musical context that I can't hear as pure tones.  Others will say that is because two frequencies that I can't hear, (say 22k and 29k), will heterodyne in my head and produce the 7k difference frequency.  In fact, I've heard that when you have a medium which can reproduce up to 100K, all those frequencies between 20k and 100k combine to produce a whole palette of audible sounds.  When CDs first appeared in 1982, I rememeber reading that an audio specialist discovered
 that if you have a program with a bandwidth of 100k and listen to it, then insert a 20k low pass filter, what you're listening to changes from sounding like a live performance to sounding like a good recording.

When I bought my first CDs in the early '80s, I commented to my sales person that the CD seems to be lacking in high frequencies, especially in sounds like cymbal crashes and harmonic content of Brass and Strings.  He said that was because what I used to hear on LPs was actually distortion created by the LP and was absent on the CD.  Suddenly, when SACDs appeared, this content was back again.

db



On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:39:45 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 
I agree that a D2D LP would work. I will have time to do this in a controlled-environment way later 
>this year. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, there are variables at every stage. I was recently 
>at a very good mastering place, listening as they compared PCM and DSD codecs, against each other 
>and against the source. On good speakers, listening carefully, everything makes a difference, 
>usually small but noticeable. One thing that was clearly and blatantly noticeable was the difference 
>between DACs playing the same 96/24 archival-transfer files, especially between one manufacturer's 
>new DAC and older version. Note that the only difference is a new power supply design, which they 
>claim leads to more stable clocking. Whatever the reason, the stereo field out of the new version of 
>their DAC was wider and more stable out at the edges. Everyone heard that. Where there was debate 
>was who "favored" the sound qualities of DSD vs 192/24 PCM vs 96/24 PCM. Everyone heard differences 
>between DSD and PCM. I wasn't convinced I heard any appreciable difference between 96/24 and 192/24 
>PCM from the same converter, but I did hear differences at either resolution between the two PCM 
>converters.
>
>My point is, even using a "controlled test source" such as a tape or D2D LP, it's hard to say what 
>differences will emerge, or what will be causing them!
>
>Caveat: let me emphasize that these differences in the DSD/PCM listening session were evident only 
>because we were in a Storak-designed mastering suite with extremely good full-range speakers driven 
>by superb power amps. And a precision-designed level-matched A-B-C-D comparison system that's 
>level-accurate within a 10th of a dB. I doubt these differences would be audible under normal 
>listening conditions, even most audiophile-normal listening conditions. However, I do think good 
>headphones would reveal the differences if the headphone amp could reproduce them accurately. I 
>definitely came away believing that there is not yet a 100% transparent audio medium. Close, but not 
>zero differences.
>
>-- Tom Fine
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Gray, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:49 AM
>Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] "Why Vinyl Is the Only Worthwhile Way to Own Music"
>
>
>>I wish someone would try this test using a *tape* source, skipping the LP cutting/reproducing 
>>stages entirely. Unless, of course, you're using a direct-to-disc LP. Any takers?
>>
>> Mike Gray
>>
>> 
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