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I think genre/form terms would be just as good as gathering access means as 
conventional collective titles, at least for collections in a single form or 
genre.  A search for Walt Whitman combined with form Poetry would pull up 
all collections and individual poetic works if it were applied consistently.

The other significant issue with using conventional collective titles to 
serve as the authorized access points for compilations, is that they make 
very little sense when needed as a subject access point or as a related work 
access point.  Users may understand them in context of looking at a 
bibliographic record with the title proper, edition statement, publication 
information, etc., but I don't think they are comprehensible when used in a 
subject added entry or as a related work, for example as in this made up 
example:

700 1_ $i Motion picture adaptation of (work): $a Whitman, Walt. $t Poems. 
$k Selections. $f 1952.

Adam Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries

-----Original Message----- 
From: Carlton, Tim
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 5:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

Well-said (although some will assuredly quibble over saying 'most')!

As a former literature cataloger, I did see the benefit of conventional 
collective titles; for example, I want to find a selection of [whoever's] 
plays (or all of them, what the heck), and I don't particularly care which 
ones, and I may not even know the titles, or that others exist.  Especially 
if translation is a factor.
And I don't understand the general aversion I'm seeing so often in the list 
to the very idea of a conventional collective title.  As you correctly note, 
we are not talking about hiding the manifestation title; the point is 
provision of another 'gathering title' (as some called 'uniform titles').'
Judgment ..................

Here speaking for myself, NOT as a matter of LC policy.

Timothy J. Carlton
Senior Instructor
Cooperative and Instructional Programs (COIN)
Library of Congress
202-707-5323
[log in to unmask]

The views expressed here are my own and I do not speak officially for the 
Library of Congress.



-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
On Behalf Of Arakawa, Steven
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 4:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

If someone were to write a book about Follow the blackbirds, it seems to me 
it is by definition well known under that title and the bibliographic record 
would be recataloged as part of the process of cataloging the critical work. 
But most poetry collections will never warrant a book or article written 
about them, so I don't expect it would happen often.  And in the meantime, 
the author of the book of criticism can contextualize Follow the blackbirds 
by retrieving the poet's other collections using the conventional collective 
title. It's not like catalogers would be suppressing the publication title.

Steven Arakawa
Catalog Librarian for Training & Documentation
Catalog & Metadata Services
Sterling Memorial Library. Yale University
P.O. Box 208240 New Haven, CT 06520-8240
(203) 432-8286 [log in to unmask]




-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
On Behalf Of Amy Turner
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 4:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

In the Duke University Libraries catalog (Endeca, one of the 
"next-generation catalogs" now in fashion), a search for "Follow the 
blackbirds" results in this hit (apologies for formatting that was be lost 
in transmission: to see the actual entry, follow the link: 
http://search.library.duke.edu/search?sugg=is&source=duke&Nty=1&N=0&Ntk=Title&Ntt=follow+the+blackbirds):


Follow the blackbirds
Author: Westerman, Gwen.
Format: Book
Published:  East Lansing : Michigan State University Press, [2013] 
Perkins/Bostock Library Stacks Click for map
PS3623.E84767 F65 2013
Checked Out (due 05/15/14).

The only way that you can see that LC used a uniform title is to click on 
the title, and then on "details" where it is a part of a list:


Titles:
Uniform Title: Poems. Selections
Authors:
Gwen Nell Westerman.
Westerman, Gwen.
Series:
American Indian Studies Series
American Indian studies series (East Lansing, Mich.) Item Description:
Published: East Lansing : Michigan State University Press, [2013]
Description: 72 pages ; 23 cm
ISBN: 9781611860924 (pbk. : alk. paper)
ISBN: 161186092X (pbk. : alk. paper)
ISBN: 9781609173845 (ebook)
OCLC Number: 826016001
Notes:
Gift of the Leona Bowman Carpenter Collection of English and American 
Literature

We catalogers have our complaints about Endeca, but I think in this case 
they got it right.   Collective uniform titles like this (and uniform titles 
in general) are not intuitive to the user, and hiding them in "details" is 
just fine by me.    BUT, if someone were to write a criticism of "Follow the 
blackbirds", following LC practice would result in a subject heading of: 
Westerman, Gwen. $t Poems. $k Selections (perhaps qualified to make it 
unique???).

Amy




-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
On Behalf Of Bothmann, Robert L
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCLIST] Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question

You are kidding me, right?

By that logic we would do this:

Silverstein, Shel, author
Poems. Selections
Falling up / poems and drawings by Shel Silverstein.


Clarke, Arthur C., author
Short stories. Selections
The sentinel / by Arthur C. Clarke.


Articles. Selections
Practical strategies for cataloging departments / edited by Rebecca L.
Lubas.


[Also, in what universe does ³Poems. Selections² add clarity and/or meet 
FISO??]

Yes, I can see this PS being valid for a work without a collective title, 
but ³Follow the Blackbirds² is the collective title of the book of poems.

But LC really wants to do "<Form>. Selections² for every book of poetry, 
short stories, omnibus editions of novels, conference proceedings, edited 
theme editions of books, and every other collected works compilation with a 
collective title?

Is this PS really being interpreted correctly? Why would we ignore 6.2.2.4 
RDA and its instruction to ³choose as the preferred title the title in the 
original language by which the work has become known² which is the title 
proper, ³Follow the Blackbirds²?


Bobby



On 3/31/14, 1:41 PM, "Adam L. Schiff" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>This is LC's policy.  The anthology is a compilation of works.  It
>doesn't matter that they haven't been previously published elsewhere.
>LC policy is to assign a conventional collective title in these
>situations.  See the LC-PCC PS at the alternative for 6.2.2.10.3:
>
>  LC practice for Alternative: Instead of recording the preferred title
>for each of the works in the compilation, record a conventional
>collective title followed by "Selections." Give an authorized access
>point for the first or predominant work (Policy Statement 25.1) or
>expression (Policy Statement 26.1).
>
>The LC-PCC PS for 25.1 says to disregard the last sentence above for
>anthologies of poetry.
>
>--Adam Schiff
>
>**************************************
>* Adam L. Schiff                     *
>* Principal Cataloger                *
>* University of Washington Libraries *
>* Box 352900                         *
>* Seattle, WA 98195-2900             *
>* (206) 543-8409                     *
>* (206) 685-8782 fax                 *
>* [log in to unmask]           *
>**************************************
>
>On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Bothmann, Robert L wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:57:53 +0000
>> From: "Bothmann, Robert L" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Reply-To: Program for Cooperative Cataloging
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Preferred title using "Poems. Selections" question
>>
>> Please see the record for "Follow the Blackbirds" by Gwen Westerman,
>>LCCN 2012046616 / OCLC ocn826016001
>>
>> Can anyone explain why there is a preferred title "Poems. Selections."
>>? I can't figure it out.
>>
>> While some of the poems in this book have been published in other
>>places, this is a unique and original work of its own according to the
>>author (who is also my neighbor and a colleague at my institution).
>>
>> I can't find anything in RDA that justifies this. No other work bears
>>this title.
>>
>> Thanks for any light that can be shed.
>>
>> Bobby Bothmann
>>
>> ***********************************
>> Robert Bothmann
>> Metadata & Emerging Technologies Librarian Professor, Library
>> Services Minnesota State University, Mankato P.O. Box 8419, ML3097
>> Mankato, MN 56002
>> Voice: 507-389-2010
>> Fax: 507-389-5155
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Adam L. Schiff
>Principal Cataloger
>University of Washington Libraries
>Box 352900
>Seattle, WA 98195-2900
>(206) 543-8409
>(206) 685-8782 fax
>[log in to unmask]
>http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~