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Hi John --
 
  As I recall, Reiner's added timpani were most often single strokes  that 
gave added lower solidity to chords. It is one of the things that makes the  
sound of his CSO recordings so distinctive. But it frequently isn't obvious 
 because it's part of the chord. If I'm remembering correctly (it's been a 
while)  Reiner's CSO recording of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture is a good 
example.  Also -- perhaps! -- Moussorgsky/Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition. 
 
  Yes, the Thunder and Lightning Polka! As we used to say, "Fritz  Reiner 
and his *Big* *Bass* *Drum!"*
 
  Don Tait
 
 
In a message dated 5/6/2014 12:28:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

Good  comment about Reiner and percussion, Don.  Reminds me of his  
fantastic
recording of Johann Strauss, Jr.'s Thunder and Lightning Polka,  which is a
subwoofer demo *par excellence*, especially on the SACD.  I  didn't realize
he also added tympani parts where not written.  Can you  think of any
examples?

Best,
John Haley


On Mon, May 5,  2014 at 8:47 PM, Steve Smolian <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I  love that Prokofiev piano recording.   It's enthusiatically played  by 
a
> true believer in the piece.  It just about leaps out of the  speakers.
>  Great record.
>
> Steve  Smolian.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Donald Tait
>  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 8:07 PM
> To:  [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Dora Labbette,  Soprano with string quartette: The
> Flowers of the Forests,  1925?
>
>  Reiner also studied percussion as a student in  Budapest. Including
> timpani, which might help explain the added  prominence of and occasional
> added timpani parts in his CSO recordings  (it's harder to tell with his
> Pittsburgh and other recordings). I  remember talking to Sam Denov, who 
was
> then a retired member of the  Chicago Symphony's percussion section. He 
said
> "Reiner was DEATH on  percussion." Meaning that he not only heard
> everything, which was a  given, but that he knew exactly what he wanted 
and
> wouldn't settle  until he got it. Sam was speaking from his personal CSO
>  experience....
>
>  Also, Reiner made piano rolls in 1925 et  seq. Four-hand versions in 
which
> he was credited as being one of the  two pianists and others in which he 
was
> credited as the "conductor."  Philip Hart wrote about it on page 44 of his
> biography of  Reiner.
>
>  Don  Tait
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: John Haley  <[log in to unmask]>
> To: ARSCLIST  <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Mon, May 5, 2014 8:50  am
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Dora Labbette, Soprano with string  quartette: The
> Flowers of the Forests, 1925?
>
>
> I  just looked up Fiedler in Wiki, and while born in Boston, his parents
>  moved to Europe (Vienna and Berlin) and he studied violin with Willy  
Hess
> at the Berlin Hochschule.  I didn't see mention of the  Johann Strauss 
III's
> orchestra, but that is possible.  I might be  wrong about his playing the
> viola.  Monteux was a violist, and  both Reiner and Mitropoulos were
> pianists.  We have a recording  of Mitropoulos performing and conducting a
> Prokofiev  concerto.
>
> Best,
> John Haley
>
>
> On  Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Roger Kulp  <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>   Szell,Walter,Solti,and Bernstein all made very famous recordings  as
>> pianists.I have seen it reported that Fiedler played in Johann  Strauss
>> III's orchestra as a student.Is there any truth to  this?
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> > Date: Sun, 4  May 2014 12:45:19 -0400
>> > From: [log in to unmask]
>>  > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Dora Labbette, Soprano with string  quartette:
>> The Flowers of the Forests, 1925?
>> > To:  [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> > I believe Fiedler  (whose name means "fiddler") was also a violist.  
But
>>  the
>> > violists are in good company with composers.   Beethoven, Rossini and
>> Mozart
>> > all played the  viola, I believe, altho both Beethoven and Mozart had
>> >  performing careers as pianists.  Most of the famous violinists of  the
>> 19th
>> > Century, and before, were also  composers.
>> >
>> > Best, John
>>  >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On  Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Dave Burnham  <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>>  > > You're right. And an inordinate number were cellists, the ones  you
>> mention
>> > > along with Kindler, Bourdon,  Casals and Rostropovich. I think
>> Hindemith did
>> >  > some conducting as well which would fill out the picture by  
including
>> > > a
>> > > violist.
>>  > >
>> > > db
>> > >
>> > >  Sent from my iPhone
>> > >
>> > > > On May 4,  2014, at 10:48 AM, John Haley <[log in to unmask]>
>>  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Most of the great  conductors were/are in fact string players, not
>> > >  pianists.
>> > > > Szell, Walter, Solti and Bernstein were  pianists, and Stokowski 
was
>> an
>> > > > organist  (his first job in the US was as organist for St. Bart's
>>  Church
>> > > in
>> > > > Manhattan).   Most of the rest were string players.  Munch was a
>> > >  > concertmaster under Furtwaengler.  Toscanini and Barbirolli  were
>> > > cellists.
>> > > > Koussevitzsky  was a bass fiddle virtuoso.  Ormandy was the most
>>  famous
>> > > > violin student of Hubay, Szigeti's  teacher.
>> > > >
>> > > >  Best,
>> > > > John Haley
>> > >  >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> >  > >
>> > > > On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Nick  Morgan <
>> > > > [log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> I suppose  most conductors trained before orchestral recording > >
>>  >> became
>> > > >> widespread must have been able  to - does anyone know of any that
>> > > couldn't?
>>  > > >>
>> > > >> Nick
>> > >  >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > >> From:  Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> > > >>  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Burnham
>> >  > >> Sent: 04 May 2014 04:11
>> > > >> To:  [log in to unmask]
>> > > >> Subject: Re:  [ARSCLIST] Dora Labette, Soprano with string
>> quartette:  The
>> > > >> Flowers of the Forests, 1925?
>>  > > >>
>> > > >> I recently came across a  record by Dora Labette with Beecham at 
the
>> > >  piano;
>> > > >> never realized he could play the  piano.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>  db
>> > > >>
>> >  >
>>
>>
>>