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Thanks for all the Haydn chatting, now I'll have to relisten to the
Scherchens (a conductor I normally enjoy anyway). But why has no one (I
think) mentioned Max Goberman, a pioneer of sorts in the authenticity
movement? His series is now on the (maligned) Haydn House label:

http://www.haydnhouse.com/Max_Goberman.htm

Also I have found this interesting old thread about the above:

http://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/PpN5iAva/feedback-on-the-max-goberman-haydn-transfers



On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Alex McGehee <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> How great to hear such responses and such variety. Uncle Dave is right
> about HvK, although I might add the words "slathered over." A paradox
> indeed for Landon, a man who had devoted his entire life and much of his
> family's money to promoting the authentic playing of Joseph Haydn. Haydn
> needs no defenders anymore. He has claimed his rightful seat in the
> pantheon of the few truly great composers.
>
> As to taste: I think Dorati is overrated because he got there first–a lie
> Decca's muscled marketing team produced when the real winner of course was
> Ernst Märzendorfer pushed to the side because he recorded for a record
> club. Funny how those recordings are still in university and public
> libraries today. Plenty of people got to know Haydn's genius through these
> recordings. I'm told M ärzendorfer remained bitter throughout his life at
> Dorati's cutting in line. The MHS recordings were made in 3 channel stereo,
> I believe. Their arrival on the "gray" market recently has come through
> some strangely transferred Haydn House recordings. Don't bite.
>
> As to favorites you really can't leave the historically informed movement
> out in the cold. Bruno Weil and Tafelmusik did some outstanding work for
> Sony. And as to the continuo vs no continuo debate; we can hear it at its
> most excessive extreme in the interrupted cycle on Hyperion by Roy Goodman
> and the Hanover Band or, with none at all on the Hogwood AAM interrupted
> cycle. James Webster (a leading Haydn scholar) leads the charge for no
> continuo, but hasn't, to my mind anyway, given a satisfactory answer to the
> question of what it was that Haydn did do if he wasn't behind the keyboard.
> In an era steeped in class and protocol he wouldn't have sat in the first
> chair and upstaged Luigi Tomasini. Haydn did play the violin passably well,
> but Tomasini was a leading player of the day and Haydn just wouldn't have
> pushed him down a seat. Haydn didn't conduct in the contemporary sense of
> the word. So what, Dr. Webster, was it indeed that Haydn did? Tap dance?
> Anyway, I like the Hogwood sets. The have some beautiful playing on them.
> Harnoncourt, his disciple Thomas Fey, Franz Brüggen. Not my cup of java
> although I must admit that Fey has the loveliest set of oboe players this
> side of the great divide, and he does work to restore a proper balance of
> winds and timpani with the strings (a main challenge in playing Haydn
> well). He just goes way overboard. Then there are those strange conducting
> tempo tics he picked up from Harnoncourt.
>
> As to favorites because I sure as Hell digressed (symptom of working alone
> too often without other Haydn lovers to talk to): Dennis Russell Davies and
> the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester put out an excellent set a few years ago of
> all the symphonies. You can still get it via Amazon dealers for $80. The
> individual symphonies all have applause at the end which is very irritating
> if you've decided to listen to a few works. The whole thing was done in a
> Mercedes Benz show room with inflatable walls to create the concert space
> (Yes, Dorothy, there's no place like this at home). I really like the set
> although no on one can do them all equally well. I also like some of what
> Adam Fischer did in his cycle, especially that he recorded it in the
> Esterházy music room and it sounds so good.
>
> Historic recordings: Hermann Abendroth (88, 96) didn't do much, but what
> he did do was superb. Another day, another age. I still have a soft space
> for Leslie Jones and the Little Orchestra of London. Maybe because I first
> heard a number of the works through him. I really like everything that the
> Orpheus Chamber Orchestra did for DG. Lacking a conductor by choice,
> they're forced to really listen to each other. Eugen Jochum seems to have
> fallen out of favor lately, but I still like his London set. Kurt
> Sanderling has been a recent discovery and plays big-box Haydn with
> glorious élan. Try no. 82, the acid test for the "Paris" set. It's easy to
> get through Japanese dealers (Tower has it) and it's on the Denon label.
>
> Well now, I've chattered away far too long and it's time to cut to the
> chase. Forced to pick one Haydn symphony recording for that fabled desert
> Isle, no question: George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra in no. 97 in C
> major. Played like this, with one voice in ensemble it shows us how
> incredibly powerful a composer Haydn was.
>
> Thanks for asking and apologies to all for the novel length response.
>
> Alex
>
> On May 9, 2014, at 6:33 AM, David Lewis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I have more "modern" tastes in Haydn -- I think Dorati's attempt(s) to
> > record all of the symphonies contain some superb interpretations,
> > particularly of my favorite,
> > No. 93. The discs I have heard out of Adam Fischer's series for Nimbus
> with
> > the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra were also outstanding. I can see why
> > Robbins-Landon
> > liked Karajan, as his recording of No. 49 is intense and dramatic, and
> this
> > comes from a listener who can take or leave HvK.
> >
> > I have a friend, Greg Fernandez, who is a listener very well steeped in
> > Haydn. I one made him a CDR of some very old recordings of Haydn. He was
> > impressed by Toscanini's
> > recording of "The Clock," but didn't like Beecham -- at all. We both
> agree
> > that we could use more of Scherchen -- his recording of No. 45, "The
> > Farewell," is something else!
> > I think Haydn really is one of the greatest of all Western composers;
> works
> > like "The Seven Last Words of Christ," his "Sunrise" (Op. 76/4) and
> > "Fifths" (Op. 76/2) string quartets
> > and some of the piano sonatas are daring and innovative beyond
> > comprehension within their own era. The old notion of friendly "Papa
> Haydn"
> > in his little wooden music shed,
> > pumping out samey music for the prince like piecework from a sewing
> > machine, does not come anywhere near his capabilities, nor what he
> actually
> > achieved.
> >
> > David N. "Uncle Dave" Lewis
> > Lebanon, OH
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:38 AM, Dave Burnham <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't believe the Colin Davis set on Philips can be beat.
> >>
> >> db
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On May 9, 2014, at 12:03 AM, Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My favorite Haydn recordings are mostly from the 40s-70s Josef
> >> Krips,Hermann Scherchen,Serge Kossevitzky,Eugen Jochum,George Szell,and
> all
> >> those old guys,but as a whole Paavo Jarvi is my favorite modern
> >> conductor.Here he is in the Haydn #84
> >>>
> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUhvKbbJ0OM
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 22:27:00 -0400
> >>>> From: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Haydn
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks Alex. I don't listen to enough Classical period music to know
> >> what I
> >>>> like necessarily, but I know I don't like portentous. That's what came
> >> to
> >>>> mind from LB's #88 on DG, until the finale, which seems more engaged
> >> than
> >>>> the rest of the performance. On the flipside, #92 fairs better, but
> not
> >>>> anything to treasure, IMO. Inner movements don't go anywhere; they're
> >> played
> >>>> the same at the end as at the beginning. I first encountered his Haydn
> >>>> records in the mid-80s and thought: great, hopefully they play him
> like
> >> they
> >>>> play Gershwin. But I was disappointed. Three are in a give-away pile,
> >> along
> >>>> with the DG.
> >>>>
> >>>> LB wasn't generally a stickler for textual fidelity and he wasn't
> always
> >>>> well prepared. Orchestra's know this when they see it. According to
> one
> >>>> biographer, he could be quite casual about some of his recordings.
> >> Sessions
> >>>> for short, war-horse pieces were sometimes noted on his calendar as
> >> "shit."
> >>>> They were said to be quick, barely-rehearsed sessions. When it worked,
> >> the
> >>>> spontaneity could be delightful. When it didn't, ...
> >>>>
> >>>> They shouldn't have had any technical problems with Haydn, but the NYP
> >> could
> >>>> also be rather inconsistent. [<-Understatement.]
> >>>>
> >>>> Who would you say does nail FJH in recent years?
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alex McGehee
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 7:37 AM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Mitrop[olous was Dora Labbette, Soprano with
> >> string
> >>>> quartette:
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry for the delay, was working on deadline for another project. The
> >>>> Bernstein performances have been widely praised, held up as models,
> >> etc.,
> >>>> but I can't board that train. The string playing is sloppy, intonation
> >>>> questionable at times, especially in the "Paris" cycle. Now please
> >> don't ask
> >>>> me for specifics because I gave my sets away years ago. Unable to make
> >> the
> >>>> connection many others have made with the late Haydn symphonies
> >> conducted by
> >>>> Bernstein, I jotted down a few notes and was glad to have the empty
> >> shelf
> >>>> space open up. Sections in the outer movements were on occasion
> >> especially
> >>>> egregious for poor ensemble.
> >>>>
> >>>> My favorite Bernstein/Haydn performance is on YouTube (don't have the
> >> link
> >>>> but it's easy to find) where Bernstein uses only his facial gestures
> to
> >>>> conduct the VPO in the final movement of no. 88 in G major. It's a
> >> "look Ma
> >>>> no hands" moment of priceless peacock-ary, and of course the orchestra
> >> can
> >>>> play the piece superbly even with blindfolds on. Bernstein was truly a
> >> great
> >>>> man and he would have been the first to tell you so. I apologize in
> >> advance
> >>>> to his many fans for being a little harsh here, and on checking see
> >> that I
> >>>> still have his DG performances of 88 and 92.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 6, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Carl Pultz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alex, I'm curious how you feel about Bernstein's Haydn performances.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alex McGehee
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:45 AM
> >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Mitrop[olous was Dora Labbette, Soprano with
> >>>>> string
> >>>>> quartette:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Haydn literature is replete with spurious timpani parts and over
> >>>>> the years they've gained a large group of devotees, never mind that
> >>>>> Haydn never wrote them and had the resources available to do so.
> Maybe
> >>>>> Haydn played the drums and that would cool off this simmering musical
> >>>>> brew of yes-he-did, no-he-didn't continuo crowd led by James Webster
> of
> >>>> Cornell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The German authorities (who must be obeyed): at the Joseph Haydn
> >>>>> Institute in Köln, responsible for the complete edition of Haydn's
> >>>>> work that got underway in the late 1950's. Why it's taken so long I
> >>>>> can't go into detail here, but it's almost done, give or take another
> >>>>> seven years. A scholar there has laid down a serious argument for
> >>>>> several symphonies that don't really have high alt horns. I kind of
> >>>>> like the symphonies that way and so did H. C. Robbins Landon (he had
> a
> >>>> passion about them).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The credo (within reason) must alway aim at the composer's original
> >>>>> intentions which do include later revisions and authorized
> >>>>> arrangements (like the flute and string instruments Johann Peter
> >>>>> Solomon wrote out from Haydn's symphony scores). I enjoy the playing
> >>>>> of the BPO with Karajan at times, but it's not Haydn. (And Landon
> >>>>> thought it the gold standard)The wind and string parts are all out of
> >>>>> balance and the timpani part (so important to Haydn when he actually
> >>>>> wrote one) has trouble getting through. I'm not a cat gut wing-nut,
> >>>>> just someone who likes these works served up with true balance and
> not
> >>>>> overly controlled with spot mics. And don't get me started on
> >> Harnoncourt.
> >>>> Yikes!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alex McGehee
> >>>
> >>
>